HOW LONG BEFORE MENTAL HEALTH SYMPTOMS CLEAR UP WHILE USING INJECTIONS?

[dianewilson1900]

Hello. I live in the US and have had four 1000 mcg injections so far. One on June 1st, June 13, July 5, and July 13. At first my energy levels soared and mood improved a little bit, but now my depression is returning. So is my apathy and lack of motivation. Do I need injections every other day and for how long? When will my mood improve? Why are these injections NOT WORKING?

[clivealive Forum Support]

Hi again dianewilson1900 it may well be that you need to have more frequent injections than the fortnightly ones you are having but I guess the U.S. has a different protocol to the NHS over here in the U.K. when loading doses are given every other day for two weeks or until there is no further improvement.

I have written before that it is also important that your Folate level is monitored as this is essential to process the B12.

There is a complex interaction between folic acid, vitamin B12 and iron. A deficiency of one may be "masked" by excess of another so the three must always be in balance.

Symptoms of a folate deficiency can include:

symptoms related to anaemia

reduced sense of taste

diarrhoea

numbness and tingling in the feet and hands

muscle weakness

depression

It is not uncommon for some symptoms to appear to get worse before they get better as the B12 you are having starts repairing the damage done to your nervous system and your brain starts getting multiple messages from part of the body it had "forgotten about" or lost contact with.

I sometimes liken it to a badly tuned radio on which you have turned the volume up high trying to catch the programme you want when all of a sudden the signal comes in loud and clear and the blast nearly deafens you.

A lot will depend on the severity and longevity of your B12 deficiency as to how long before there is no further improvement or recovery.

Some symptoms will "disappear" quite quickly whereas others may take months or even years. There is no set timescale as we are all different.

I am not a medically trained person but I've had Pernicious Anaemia (a form of B12 deficiency) for more than 46 years.

I wish you well.

[dianewilson1900 in reply to clivealive]

Thank you! Your analogy of the radio really helps and gives me positive perspective. I have heard others say that symptoms sometimes get worse before they get better to. But what I have read more commonly, as you stated, that yes, I'm not receiving enough injections. I feel once a week is not enough too and have read tri weekly injections is preferred according to the American Family Physcian website here in the states. They, too, state injections should start off every other day for severe neurological pateints. All of my low B 12 symptoms are returning except a couple have disappeared as you said. But now they are resurfacing. The shots at the hospital worked well. But the injections they sent to my home seem to really suck. P.S. Update: I had my folate checked, its normal. Ferritin to.

[dianewilson1900]

Great rule of thumb! Many articles on websites say to give yourself injections in till the symptoms go away.and no longer needed, so I agree! Everybody is different and there is no cookie cutter mold to go by I suppose. I therefore couldnt agree more. Thank you, Your validation helps! ❤😅❤

[Marymary7]

Maybe you would do better on Methylcobalamin? My brother didn't do so well on the hydroxycobalamine, we are forced to self medicate so I inject him twice a week with Methylcobalamin.

[Gambit62 Administrator]

I presume that you are taking cyanocobalamin, and as Clivealive says there isn't really any standards in the US.

B12 is a very individual thing so not really possible to say what is right for you - however, it does sound as if you are being undertreated at 1x per week. Significant numbers of people need blood levels well in excess of the normal range after loading shots - reasons not entirely clear but most likely to be something that kicks in when you have high B12 levels and stops the B12 passing from your blood to your cells. The most effective treatment is to keep B12 levels very high so enough manages to get through to your cells - like water trickling over the top of a dam.

You could try using oral B12 in very high quantities - which may help to keep levels high enough between injections - or nasal sprays.

You could try getting more frequent injections - B12 isn't toxic

You could also try different types of B12 - but please be aware that methyl doesn't work for everyone and can make anxiety worse in some.

Personally I find that my symptoms start to return within 24 hours of a shot - however I'm also able to use nasal sprays and sublinguals quite effectively. Methyl works for some symptoms but doesn't do anything for my neuropsychiatric symptoms

[dianewilson1900 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you. Thats very sensible advice and I apoligize it took a few days to respond back. I had a lot going on here. I know Methyl works better because its the natural form of B 12 while Cyano is synthetic. I go to a free public teaching hospital, and while I will certainly bring this up to my doctor about more frequent injections, I doubt Methyl B 12 is available. The shots I got at the hospital were so much better it seemed like compared to the two I injected at home. Maybe there was a difference in the brand? I will discuss this with my provider. I agree, I need injections at least three times a week at least and I feel nasty 1 to 2 days after an injection. Thanks again. Some symptoms do get worse but I'm not doing any better at all...PERIOD! Something isn't right here..I will try sublinguals. But I worry it will skew test results and make my levels higher than they should be and he will discontinue injections. The B 12 supplements make my skin uncomfortable. Like I'm sleeping on a bed of hay. Hay for horses. Prickly sensations. And the injections are Cyano btw...yes

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to dianewilson1900]

sublinguals aren't going to make a significant difference now you are on B12 shots - any serum B12 now will be totally skewed by the shots and not mean anything unless it is coming back low - which definitely means you need more.

For the record - methyl used for injections or sublinguals is just as artificial as cyano. It may be an analogue of one of the two forms used in your cells but the process for getting it in to your cells makes this rather irrelevant as it is stripped of the methyl or cyano element in this process ... and then recombined with a methyl or an adenosyl element inside the cell.

[dianewilson1900 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you. Sorry I waited so long to respond. I have so many wonderful supportive people who have responded back to me, My mail box has been flooded! I try to respond to each and every response but occasionally I unintentionally miss someone. You have always been great getting back to me right away, and I appreciate that. I see my doctor August 14 and just sent him an article about vitamin B 12 serum levels versus functional B 12, and explained to him my body isn't utilizing the B 12 correctly and to increase the injections three times a week. I'll keep ever one posted about what he says. Thanks again and I am taking Cyano by the way, 1 ML injections in the arm

[dianewilson1900 in reply to Gambit62]

Hello Gambit62? You always know so much in great detail about all the different types of B 12 and stuff out there. I could you some advice when I see my doctor August 14th, if you have time...😀😀🌼 I live in the US. In addition to my increasing my injections from once a week to three times per week, do you recommend I switch to a different type of B 12? And if so, which type? I think you mentioned before it doesnt matter. (I'mtaking Cyano). Do you also recommend increasing the potency of the injection? I take 1 ML once per week. Someone said try swritching B 12 brands, I may have better luck and some people do better with different brands. What do you think?

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to dianewilson1900]

most of the B12 in an injection is filtered out by the kidneys in first 24-48 hours and as rate of loss is higher the more B12 you have in your blood I wouldn't recommend any different dosage - certainly not a higher dose.

Cyano should be okay - difficult to get much else in US as injections - though some do manage to source methyl. Sometimes it is worth trying different forms but I have no way of saying which will work for which individual. Some find methyl does nothing for them - others find that it makes them feel quite ill. If more frequent cyano works then I'd suggest sticking with that

[dianewilson1900 in reply to Gambit62]

Ok, Thanks so much. Your quite knowledgable! You must read a lot of seems like you have a medical background almost lol...😁😁😁💗💗💗

[BiancaB12]

Hi, I am also in the US. Were you diagnosed with PA or B12 deficiency? What was your B12 level? Being in the US I found it helpful to work with a hematologist and a naturopath, as they were more open to helping me get regular B12 injections than a primary care physician (PCP). The PCP's I've seen didn't believe me to be anemic, though the hematologist diagnosed me with PA and my life has changed amazingly (reduced brain fog, increased focus and energy) since being on regular B12 shots. I was diagnosed with PA 10 years ago and still have to have an injection every few days.

I agree with the other posts, that you may not be getting enough B12 or perhaps not the right kind of B12 for you, either in type (usually in the US they prescribe cyano, not hydroxo or methylcobalamin) or in potency per ML. If the injections they sent you home with didn't work as well, it may be due to their potency. See if the potency is the same as what you received in the hospital. Also, many people say that intramuscular injections are better than subcutaneous ones for getting the B12 in. Also, even if your iron comes in at the "normal" level, if it on the low side of normal, you might still need a little more to help your body work with the B12 you are taking, especially if you are a woman and have heavy periods. My iron is on the low side of normal but I continue to take it. Other supplements that may help or to check: Vitamin D, magnesium, B complex.

Hope you feel better soon!

[dianewilson1900]

Hi, nice to meet you here on this forum! I apologize for the delayed response. I had to step away and take care of some things for a few days. I live in Chicago. In would LOVE to work with a naturpath, but I go to a free public teaching hospital. Therefore, they don't have them here. It isn't covered by insurance here in Illinois. You have to pay out of pocket and that can run between $80-280 in my state. Other states it may be covered partially by insurance. If you brought that up here, they would literally point a finger in your face and laugh...which is sad. I believe in naturpaths. I thought about meeting with a gastrologist because I have gastitis, diverticulitis and a 95% possibility of having Perncious anemia. I have Candida and slow bacterial growth issues in my gut and colon too. I take PPI's and Metformin. I also suspect I have irritable bowel syndrome and possible leaky gut syndrome. This has to be confirmed but I haevall the symptoms. 90% probability. So I think a gastrologist is my first "Go to" doctor because I simply don't absorb nutrients from food properly. I had anemia three years. Its probably lack of intristic factor. But you are also correct for suggesting a hemotologist as my second " Go to" doctor. I will ask for a referall. I'm sure that department can offfer me some useful information I can absorb and process, pun totally intended! 😁😁 I will get something useful from then. With my current B 12 injections NOT WORKING worth a Jack !!!!, I think my GP now realizes..uh...something is isn't right here. I think he is at the cusp of finally NOW realizing I'm only absorbing may be only one forth of what I should. (I'm guessing). These injections are not working! I have an IUD, and therefore don't get periods anymore as you mentioned. All my other labs are normal