B12 injections - what next?

[jbthyro]

Hi all,

After finally convincing my dads GP to give him B12 injections with a blood test result of 400 and serious neurological problems including a deep depression and terrible side effects to anti depressants over the past year, he is finally getting back to himself!

He has had 5x injections over a period of 2 weeks and since injection 4 and 5 this week we have noticed a huge shift in his outlook to life. Also, he has stopped roaming the house at night unable to sleep and is now sleeping in his own bed without the anxiety issues he has had for 6 months!

Now the GP has organised a blood test in 10weeks with a view to giving him another injection at 3months.

I had supplemented him for 4 weeks on Jarrows Methylcobalamin 5000 prior to getting the GP to agree to the injections, then as soon as he started the B12 injections I stopped his lozenges for that period.

My question to the group is what to do next?

1) Should I ask for an earlier blood test to check his levels of B12?

2) Would the results be skewed anyway now so should I ask for a homocysteine serum blood test and/or an MMA urine test to confirm the B12 levels?

3) Should I continue with the B12 Methylcobalamin lozenges maybe at a lower dose (1000)?

4) Any further advice of things to do/ask/follow up from here?

Many thanks in advance

jbthyro

[Fruitinprogress]

I would keep up the injections every few mths to keep the levels high they sound the most effective for him & get an MMA test periodically to monitor.

[wedgewood]

First thing that springs to mind , why has your Dad not been tested for Pernicious Anaemia ?( the intrinsic Factor antibody test). Yes it's is not 100 % reliable ( only about 50%) If positive he has PA! If negative he might still have PA , especially with those symptoms, but it's a start .

I'm assuming that your Dad isn't vegan or strict vegetarian , doesn't take a PPI (stomach acid supressant) Metformin for diabetes , hasn't had any stomach surgery . All of these can cause B12 deficiency . I hope that the doctor looked into this possibility, but many doctors are so ignorant about B12.. Best wishes .

[jbthyro in reply to wedgewood]

Hi Wedgewood,

No he has no other health issues at all.

His mother had PA so GP has given b12 injections despite saying "well its not the next route I would have taken but I adipose we could try it! "

I asked for urune MMA, serum homocystiene tests before injections but there are no results at his surgery so I have to ring GP tomorrow to try to get some answers!

I will also ask for intrinsic factor blood test too. But obviously I wanted these all done before his injections! I guess if there still is a problem it may show up! At least he is recovering on these injections after 2yrs of terrible mental health issues!

I now want to get him off Statins too, but dad believes the GP more than me on this one! I need to cite some evidence to dad to try to convince him, but I am going to ask his GP tomorrow to give him a trial of 'no statins' to see if he further improves and check cholesterol in 2 months.

He eats normal healthy diet by the way meat and veg and dairy, and my dear mum rings me each day to check she is giving him all the right foods etc! He is also on supplements I have sent him including B-complex with folate, magnesium, B6, CoQ10, and a few others.

[Marz in reply to jbthyro]

Statins do not prevent heart issues - we need cholesterol - which is why over 80% of cholesterol is produced in the liver. Cholesterol is used in the production of all hormones. GP Practices are well rewarded for prescribing Statins with Funding Points.

The best place to look for information is the website of Dr Malcolm Kendrick - who wrote the book - The Great Cholesterol Con - and his second book - Doctoring Data. Research for Statins is mostly funded by Big Pharma and the negative outcomes conveniently hidden which has now been admitted by Rory Collins - the Professor in charge of the CCTC.

dr.malcolmkendrick.org

Glad your Dad is taking CoQ10 as Statins also prevent the production of CoQ10 in the liver - something every cell in the body needs. VitK2 also uses the same pathway - and this vitamin is responsible for guiding calcium away from the arteries and into the bones. In fact there is a research paper showing that Statins can cause atherosclerosis due to this issue.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/256...

I think I would be inclined to advise your Dad to still take the lozenges between injections as he cannot overdose - and I have read that different B12's work in different ways. Others here will of course give you more information.

So good you are able to help your Dad and that your Mum is supportive too ....

[wedgewood]

You are a great daughter !

[jbthyro in reply to wedgewood]

Aw thanks wedgewood!

[clivealive Forum Support]

P.A. can be inherited jbthyro and your Dad's doctor should know that.

[Marymary7]

Another great site on Statins being a terrible con is...Spacedoc by Duane Graveline a ex NASA scientist who suffered terribly from Statin problems and who recently died sadly. Lots of articles on there.

Ubiquinal is the already converted version of coQ10 and works better plus is essential as you have already noted with Statins.

Very best of luck with the NHS.

M 😎

[Gambit62 Administrator]

As your dad had neurological symptoms the recommended treatment per BCSH and NICE is 3x per week until symptoms stop improving. It should be reviewed at 3 months. It should then be maintenance shots at frequency of 2 weeks (though many still find that inadequate)

bcshguidelines.com/document...

p8

1) Blood tests at this point won't be useful unless B12 serum comes back low - same would be true of 10 weeks - it is the improvement in symptoms that needs to be the focus of treatment at this point

2) these test would now be skewed by the supplementation and the shots

3) try to get the correct loading dose treatment before you go for any other supplementation

[Forest1000]

Hi, Glad to hear that your Dad is so much better now, but be aware that any blood test for B12 carried out after receiving B12 injections will only measure the B12 in the blood stream, there as a result of the injections. It will give a very high reading, (probably off the top of the scale), and will not reflect the actual amount of B12 absorbed at the cellular level. Your father's doctor should know this. You should check the Pernicious Anaemia Society's website for symptoms of PA, and B12 deficiency, just to see if there are any other other symptoms your father might have. Lots of people do well with injections every 12 weeks, but make sure any neurological symptoms are fully treated before the gap between injections is increased. Hope your father continues to get better, he is lucky to have such a great daughter. 😊

[jbthyro in reply to Forest1000]

Thank you Forest1000, that all makes perfect sense.

Do you know if the serum homocysteine and MMa urine tests would still show a backdoor way of keeping the B12 in check/balanced after injections have been administered?

I'm not convinced that dads doctor has much detailed knowledge about the B12 so it is going to be reliant on what I ask for I think!

jbthyro

[PAS-admin Partner in reply to jbthyro]

Blood tests during treatment are not very useful. That also applies to MMA/homocysteine. If they were tested before treatment (including sublinguals)and found high, then they can be retested at some point (once) to see if they normalized, proving the deficiency. There is only one real way to see if B12 is 'balanced' and that is checking symptoms. As long as they don't reoccur before the next injection, the frequency is the right one. If they do, more is needed.

[jbthyro in reply to PAS-admin]

thank you all, that is all very helpful.

jbthyro x