Daughter in law ...

[networker]

Daughter in law had another episode for want of a better word ! Started with anxiety not too bad then through the afternoon changed into argumentative repeating herself / going over the same things repeatedly finally went to bed and slept all night , woke this morning upset but fully functioning around 10 o'clock her mother went round realised things were going downhill again then it just developed into extreme tiredness to the point were she couldn't function at all now in bed if it follows the usual pattern she will slowly come out of it over the next two days then be fine until the next episode . Also some other symptoms have started she has been complaining of pins and needles from her elbows to her finger tips when brushing her hair the other week a clump of hair came out ,her mouth is really sore , and I don't know if this is connected but over the last 7 years while having these episodes her breath starts to smell not a bad smell sometimes you could say a pear drop kind of smell and other times a alcohol kind of smell we've had this explained to us as being Ketones is there any connection between this and B12 thanks for any help anyone has on this

[CarpaBob]

I don't know about b12, but I do know ketones on the breath are often linked to diabetes. It sounds like your daughter in law is having some mental health difficulties and I am aware that postnatal psychosis has been linked to low b12. Is she still taking the setraline? What dose of b12 is she on and what method?

[networker in reply to CarpaBob]

Hi she's having counselling and the counsellor has already said she's not suffering from depression she's also had tests for diabetes and they were fine second dr has taken her off the sertraline as it wasn't having any effect since coming off it the anxiety attacks have reduced in severity she is now back on b12 sublingual tablets two a day she was off the b12 for 5 months so we understand that it could take a while to build up again thanks again for any help much appreciated .

[fbirder in reply to networker]

How is her diet? Ketoacidosis (which produces the 'fruity' breath smell) used to be common with people on the Atkin's Diet - where carbohydrate is shunned and lots of fats are eaten.

[networker in reply to fbirder]

Her diet is a normal balanced on meat red and white and lots of veg & fruit . Just wondered if there was any connection with ketones & B12 .

[fbirder in reply to networker]

I can't recall reading anything about such a connection. I'll try a search tomorrow.

[networker in reply to fbirder]

Thank you

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to fbirder]

fbirder , I did some research a while ago in relation to my own family history as I wanted to know if B12 could be part of the reason why my mother had been having so much problem controlling blood sugar levels at the time. Anyway a few papers that might be relevant

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/co...

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/...

So, does look as if there could be a link but the chemistry and biochemistry is a bit beyond me.

[fbirder in reply to Gambit62]

Dang! I wish I still had access to my old online tools. That last paper looks intriguing - but it's from 1957. Now many good things originated in that year - but I feel research may have moved on a bit.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to fbirder]

I did come across reference to a child who suffered as a result of B12 but I didn't save the link at the time. May be worth looking on the ncbi.nim site for other references ... though sometimes that can be an exercise in going round in circles.

Actually - just looked at the 'similar articles' section on the first article - gives links to some more recent articles on MMA (and homocysteine) problems mimicking diabetic ketoacidosis - one of articles is dated 2016 - so I'm only going to get access to the abstract - but that looks pretty much like the article I was thinking of.

[CarpaBob]

I think you will have to try and fight for further investigation /treatment with the gp. Maybe even consider changing gp surgery and start again with another gp. Has she been back to the gp who hurried the haematologist appointment (I know they refused to see her) and asked what he suggests next. As the pins and needles are recent it may be worth seeing the neurologist again plus they may be able to get further tests done.

[deniseinmilden]

Sorry I'm short of time this morning so can't look things up for you but if cows have metabolic and liver issues (ie fatty liver syndrome which can occur when they start milking heavily soon after calving if they were too fat as heifers but it can also happen if they ingest toxins, eg oak leaves) they often have ketosis (pear drops smell) and this can be treated in them with a steroid injection and a high dose vitamin B12 injection to help mop up the toxins and repair their liver function. They get similar symptoms to those you describe so I suggest there could be a similar link in people and strongly recommend you research it further.

[Retren]

Has anyone suggested testing her urine?Networker.