Is it cramp?

[L3hipguy]

MRI and x ray after a fall show stenosis/spondylisthesis L4-S1 and wedge compression fracture at L1 with osteophyte formation. Been on lots of meds for pain for 5 years and now on 3000mg gabapentin/day. Still pain at all times. Now getting cramps like pain at night where it feels like there is an intense tightening strap between my left calf and big toe. Gets locked. Severe pain daily in my left hip too but told it’s all neurological degenerative changes in lower spinal column. Any ideas?

[Madlegs1]

Find a really good sports physical therapist, who should be able to rub out those tight ligaments and muscles.

It's likely your body is all out of kilter and getting areas distorted.

They all need to be stretched and limbered up.

Good luck.

[Kjun54321]

Might also want to try water therapy. I do exercises in a pool and it takes the strain off my back and legs.

[mutterley1]

Sincererely sorry to hear your problems- maybe my comments will help a bit. I started surgery in 1990 age 30, with bulging disc. I worked in Yemen which has no medical facilities for spines. Got decompression on bulging disc/Sciatica done on the private care I had then. Surgeon told me ''10 years and problems will return''. He was right. My meds were all addictive & didnt solve much until I added GABA -3600mg/day -to the mix. Designed to intercept nerve pain messages in people having fits I found that it helped me a great deal BUT it was in a 3 x daily 'pond' of Morphine, Amatriptyline & Diazapam all of which contributed, with intro of GABA ,to improving my overall back pain BUT it did not halt in ANY way the goings on in my spine. It would appear that some of us have spines that are not as good as others and ANY trauma just makes the whole mess worse. STENOSIS is a nasty nasty problem with the ability, on multiple levels, to tighten up the gaps the nerves run through and generate PAIN. As it is a 'change' the only real solution is surgery with its usual risks BUT it can be 'key hole' now, based on an MRI which clearly shows the problem area which is widemed to remove pressure. I think that having lower spine L1 damage AND L4-S1 is covering a big area with key nerves in those places. With Osteophytes growing as a response to cracks/breaks they are random and can also cause nerves to be trapped. or worse. I tried everything over 5 years from Yoga to Chriropracter with no change at all. My mum was a GP and she showed me imaging that proved to me that certainly with STENOSIS and FRACTURE medicines can only do so much. When I started using GABA almost 20 years ago it helped intercept nerve pain messages to the brain BUT it only worked with the 'benefits' of my other drugs - NOT as a 'stand alone' solution. Trapped nerves cannot be fixed with drugs alone-they are just a sticking plaster that is short lived because the STENOSIS alone will squeeze nerves relentlessly 24/7 & even to destruction!. Dont get me wrong- I dont make comments like that easily BUT you are also my story and my comments are based on huge amounts of information I got from Consultants and Surgeons + my mum's connections. My stenosis has been operated on twice- second time they F....D up and severed the SCIATIC nerve/PERONEAL nerve cutting any feeling in my left leg below the knee -think 'floppy fish' for a foot and whilst surgery COULD fix it no one is willing to put me forward but that should NOT be true with your twin issues because STENOSIS will win every time and you CANNOT stretch such problems out- they are bones, changes & growths and they are relentless. What is strange however is that I have, in an otherwise totally paralysed leg, an almighty F......G pain in my BIG TOE which is made worse at night because the leg is elevated slowing blood flow and placing the spine FLAT not UPRIGHT which, coupled with lack of movement gets going on the PERONEAL nerve to the BIG TOE- its wierd but its true and its not at all funny as you are trying to sleep. There is no reason I know off why you should not be helped surgically with the STENOSIS and the OSTEOPHYTE growths as both will worsen and the longer it goes on the worse they will get. GABA gives me some relief- much more than all the other stuff BUT 3000mg is close to 3600mg TOP DOSE reccomended and I split mine up into 3 amounts + my other stuff in a day. Your calf is being stimulated by your spinal issues which in turn hits the big toe along with cramps, tightening and general feeling of being lost within the pain. I think it is correct that you are told that 'degenerative issues' are a major cause of a group of individual problem areas BUT you MUST (in my opinion) push for surgery for the STENOSIS & OSTEOPHYTES - these are common proceedures with such problems. As 3000mg of GABA (+whatever else you take) is not helping at all + nightime elevation and different positions, none of them upright, are making it worse the big toe pain will NOT stop- has no reason too if it outdoes the medication(s). On my way to Yorkshire from Hampshire my wife and I stopped at services for a coffee and a break. When I got out of the car my left NO NERVE foot felt strange. I took of my Dr Martin (such footwear has helped me day to day) and in front of my eyes the foot below the ankle slowly started to move through 90 degrees so the sole was pointing at a wall and it remains like that after 8 years. Conultants/Surgeons CAN and DO treat Stenosis & Osteophytes all the time so you must push for it-the sooner the better. An L1 fracture is not good news but can be sorted by FUSION which carries its own risks but screwed to L2/L3 gives stability and will stop Osteophytes which can also be removed. Spondellitus & such like are the arthritus/osteoarthritus of the spine and some get it and some dont but it is degenerative, slowly like a 'ticking bomb' until it does more damage. Apologies for such a long reply but I cannot miss bits out for you to read. STENOSIS (may be more than one narrowing/pressure on nerve point) and OSTEOPHYTES are common on the NHS but with lots of people needing it so you should really kick ass to get on the lists. Success in these areas may also give some relief to the hip area AND the big toe otherwise it will all just get worse, muzzle your life until they say its too dangerous and/or too late so PLEASE ACT NOW. I wear a thin compression stocking at night so it keeps moving the blood around and not starving the very end of its downwards travel. I found some genuine positive help for the toe with a product called EMULGEL (prescription only ) or the OTC IBUPROFEN equivalent. It is a potent ANTI INFLAMATORY and seems to lessen the toe problem almost totally. Its a slight gel type product that needs putting on the top of the foot from the big toe back towards the ankle but about 4'' back from the toe is enough. Cover the big toes top,sides and underneath- it sinks in quite quickly but start with 'overkill' and you will find your own ;best method'. The compression stocking does give added help so I put my GEL on while sat on the toilet, read the paper, check the gel has been absorbed and put the stocking on (get a script or buy OTC-they last forever & just need a wash every few days). SO.......all of this longggggggg answer is based on fact- my fact and I have said it as it was and as it is. TIME is not your friend with these matters so do what you must especially given ongoing NHS strike action. Tell your GP your life is dominated by unrelenting pain & at night it just gets worse - it is his job to get you to the Consultant and that should be via a fresh MRI. Dont take no for answer- no is a rejection- you want answers AND to be seen by a Consultant to whom you will beg and plead for surgical intervention. TRY the EMULGEL/IBUPROFEM (which will be £10/week minimum so try and get a prescription).

GOOD LUCK -hope this helps & KEEP IN TOUCH - DAVID

[strongmouse]

Hi, its horrible getting cramp at night. I get it and find that eating bananas help. I know sounds mad! Apparently bananas contain potassium and low potassium can cause cramp. (It tends to be worse in the leg where I get sciatica, but I can get it in either leg). Mine is partly due to one of the medications I'm on causing the potassium levels in my blood to drop, but it might be worth a try.

[Mitch48]

Hi there,

Cramps & muscle spasms are a common problem with spinal injuries.

I have C5/6 + C6/7 Radiculopathy along with L3-L5 nerve irritation/Radiculopathy.

I’ve had several surgeries including many procedures for Impending Cauda Equina/Spondylolisthesis (2 vertebrae) & 2 x ACDF’s.

I have muscle spasms all over my body but the legs & feet seem to be the worst. I drink tonic water as the quinine helps but end up using a Tens machine on the tops & soles of both feet. Try a stretch but it can make them worse on occasion. Biofreeze, a cold roll on is fantastic. I also take Oramorph for breakthrough pain when my Fentanyl patch doesn’t cover them & the awful lightning, electric shock type nerve pains down my legs & in my feet, this is along with 2700 mgs of Gabapentin, etc.

I’m having a Medial Branch Block this week & I hope it works so that I can have Radio frequency Ablation in my lumbar spine. Fingers crossed.

Regards,

Mitch

[mutterley1 in reply to Mitch48]

Hi Mitch. I value everyone's rights to ideas and opinions especially as it gives sufferes 'options'. I have had 17 surgical interventions and many have created knock on effects but at least I have avoided a stoma bag- just! I simply wanted, not at all in anything other than the spirit of the forum, but I believe that many people do no know OROMORPH and that it is morphine in an alcohol carrier. As you will know, its hits fast and leaves almost as fast which creates a vicious circle. Many GP's, Consultants and Pain Specialists will NOT offer a prescription for OROMORPH anymore. It is a double addiction of neath denatured ethanol & morphine taking the morphine straight into the gut & bloodstream. Once its done a 'body circuit' its ability tails off. Even hospitals are very negative about Oramorph partly as its been around for so long they assume something new will be better. Morphine patient controlled/inhibited against overuse are the current regime in most spinal/nerve related systems (and many others). I only mention this as even someone already on meds that may ask for Oramorph is likely to be declined. ANY opiate type products are in the crosshairs of the medical proffession as a result of the class Litigation in the USA and their 'opiod epidemic-past & present- so even if its Zomorph (also an old med) or Zydol or any other name to give to a morphine product is like leaping off a bridge b4 tying the bungee rope round your waste. Morphines get a hold on us within 3 months by which time the body is addicted. Used wisely if such exists it is fab & often the only way forward in crisis situations BUT there are other groups of meds that, together, can do almost as good a job as Morphine and, in my opinion, NO ONE should take JUST a morphine medication.

No critcism here as that is not my way but it rang a bell when I saw it and hope u will take my comments at face value and I wish you the very best in your own health problems.

David