Pain Concern
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Anyone know about morphing patches

I went to see a new consultant regarding my pain issues in my back, and I am now going to have some injections to see if that helps, but in the mean time he added morphing patches to my medication.

I am having great success with them and after a month I went to my GP and asked to try the 15 mg dose, as I was told I could by the pain doctor, and to my dismay I was not only told by my GP that I can’t as the pain doctor hadn’t put that in the letter, but also that... may I quote “ there is no evidence that the patch works, unless you have cancer.” So no you can’t “

I am finding them a great help in reducing my pain.

Has anyone else been told this ???

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Interested as to why you needed stronger dose?

No. GP can only prescribed drugs on written info from pain consultant. Or not if he thinks otherwise.

There has been a lot of research in recent times into morphine use for chronic pain. It has shown that going on higher doses does not decrease pain.

I would say well done to your GP for being aware of this research. Many just give out stronger and stronger opiate meds

Did the pain clinic offer you any alternative therapy to meds?

x

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What were the pain patches called please? I have tried butrans patches and had no pain relief from them.

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Hi it is the ones and whether it’s because it’s along with my other meds I don’t know but it has made a huge difference.

Kind regards

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Hi thanks for your reply, I inquired about a stronger dose with the hope that it would have as much improvement as the first I am afraid that my positives got the better of me.

I have been through various treatments at the pain clinic during the last 3 years as I was afraid to try injections as my pain is in my back and subsequently in my chest too. This is as a result of 5/6 broken vertebrae from top to bottom. Although the bones are now healed, the nerves, tendons, disks and other soft tissues spasms and other secondary problems are still causing chronic pain, which for the last 3 years has ruined my life.

Kind regards

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TENS? Acupuncture? Pacing? Managing your pain? Physio? Counseling?

All can and do help.

Sorry you feel it has ruined your life. It doesn't need to.

x

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I am on the list for acupuncture and am starting counselling next month TEN helps I failed at physio and I struggle with pacing but the pills and patch have had an effect so I am going to have another go at pacing and I always do my physio exercises as best as I can. My aim is to be almost normal again ... walk talk breath and even find a hobby maybe.

Thanks for your reply x

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Tell me..what is normal? You mien how you used to be?

‘Don’t look back. You’re not heading that way.’ ”

Wise words

x

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What’s pacing? Also what strength. butrans have you tried I had a ten and a five on....tried the twenty but they made me feel woozy ....

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Hi it’s a 10 mg and pacing is when you stop moving when it hurts and you eventually build up your strength (in a nut shell )

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This is long but worth listening

x

PACING

princessinthetower.org/pain...

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Thanks I will do x

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Just read it. Fascinating as it belies everything my pain management clinic and surgeon has advised, i.e. “push through it and carry on”. In my heart, I just knew this is wrong, and will absolutely stop doing it, even though it may need a lot of coffee stops!

By the way, has anyone noticed that caffeine helps in the short term?

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Really? Your pain management have told you to push on? Sack them. You can't treat your body like that.

You end up asking for more and more pain meds which,a) they won't give and b) they won't work.

Even a top athlete would stop before his limit is reached.

I am shocked

x

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Me too. Just felt all wrong. What happened to my great belief in listening to the body, it knows not how to lie. Out the window, that’s where -when pain hits and the frustration and, yes, self-anger hits. In spite of definitely accepting that one can never return to where one was. That’s not a viable option for anyone, equally for the young, unfortunately. The triumph of experience over hope! Also, the power of the psychological aspect of pain can be explored, but it takes belief and patience. The body can be “told off” , gently, as though apart from oneself, but it is a study in itself. Have tried it on an amateur level with surprising results but its very individual.

Your replies are always so sensible and well-informed. A comforting delight.

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One of the pain nurses on my pain management programme (who has chronic pain) suggested thinking about my back as a hurt tiger cub (I like cats). When it's unhappy, it digs in those sharp little claws, and when I keep pushing it it starts biting. If I pay attention, though, and give it heat, rests (what cat doesn't like those?), and remember to be nice to it, it tends to curl up and (mostly) go to sleep. I find this imagery really helpful, personally. It doesn't mean to hurt me - it's young and feline, so it just lashes out a bit when unhappy.

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Thank you, that’s lovely. Will try for sure. X

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Cat, kitten? Raptor more like....

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I'm shocked too! That's incredibly bad advice. Can you see a different pain management doc? Can you make a complaint about the one who told you that?

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Not really. One would find a shoal of practitioners who would profess to agree with that diagnosis. The profession always protects itself. This is so, as have worked in the medical area. Both my surgeon and pain practitioner are private and expensive!

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You actually pay to get advice like that?

Speechless

x

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Yup! A lot......

These correspondences are being more helpful and infirmative than those quacks out there.

Incidentally, (on good advice!) have started on Serrapeptase 250mg and turmeric C3 + bioperine extract. Have hopes as an adjunct....herbal remedies take time.

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Well if you are happy to pay for advice like that I have nothing more to say.

x

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Of course am not happy. Was as shocked as you. My regime is now totally changed. Knew intrinsically it couldn’t be right but was not going into a big row one cannot win.

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I find that caffeine and nicotine both help a little. Has not helped with my stop-vaping efforts!

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I had similar - got told could not have Norspan Patches* as well as Panadiene Forte for pain = by one GP . My GP had retired etc so has to sign on at Super Clinic.

( Buprenorphine is the main active ingredient - think maybe using a different name in UK.)

Changed to another doc there and got both. Pain clinics are just not on the Island I live on - we get a fly in monthly but booked up for months I found. GP's can do the pain meds anyway.

These patches work very well I was on 20 top rate for pain from arthritis having eaten away bone at top of left hip - leg shortened etc and thigh muscles locking up with sharp pain as well as a burning heel every night driving me out of bed to sleep in chair - this was helped with taking a B12 supplement but still couldn't sleep in bed for around 2 years wait for surgery.

Plus 8 Panadeine Forte tabs 30mg Codeine daily. Off the patches within 1 week of having the operation. And can sleep in my bed. (Still need the codeine as right knee is in need of replacement they tell me and it helps along with Deep Heat Mentholatum. I still have left leg a bit shorter than right but so much improved and left knee too.

Link to Norspan mydr.com.au/medicines/cmis/... is a morphine derivative.

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There are plus and minuses to narcotics whether they are given by patch or orally. The biggest problem is development of tolerance to the dose you are on and needing an increase in dose to achieve pain relief. Sounds like you are on a low dose and it should be increased to get relief and then see if it happens once you get relatively comfortable. If you can maintain a dose that works this would seem ideal.

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Hello Pollyanna. Can only say that tried the lowest dose via patches for lower back pain having had four failed lumbar fusions and collapsed discs and they made me quite ill. I did even, stupidly, persevere but they failed to work after two days, as did morphine.

Have started acupuncture, but this takes time and patience,

What ever you do.....NEVER carry anything slightly heavy, no shopping. Nothing. And walk tall. Easier said than done, but have discovered to my cost that this is a major culprit for us fellow sufferers. A small and light wheelie if necessary

Also a little thing such as circling shoulders a few times a day can be helpful as they can be tight from tension and pain can travel

from that area to the lumbar region. We have to try and help ourselves and stay aware that most meds decrease effectiveness sooner or later. Very best of luck..

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Thank you for your reply, I know that the meds can decrease over time as your body gets used to them but I am hoping that it will take a long time as I am enjoying being able to walk a few steps without pain or the worry that I will have to pay for it later.

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Dunno if this'll help, but I try to schedule a 3-day break from the opiates every month. This breaks any dependency I'm building up (if I am), and I haven't had to go up in dosage in 6 years. For those few days I take all the other painkillers I have (some of which I rarely take because of tummy issues), and spend much of the time lying on a heat pack. I make sure to get up and do stretches, have a walk around, etc. Sometimes I invite friends over for a movie night or a craft day to break the boredom. It's worked for me, although those 3 days are no fun.

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Feel you are doing the right thing. Its an interesting concept. Let us all know how its working for you?

Have you tried heat patches stuck to the troublesome area over the day? Would be nervous of sticking them on bare skin. Some makes say yes, some no. Bought some today for first time......

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Oh god yes. I love those things! I'm allergic to most adhesives, so I I stick it to a piece of cloth and tie the cloth around my belly so it sits in the right place. :)

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Can’t wait to try tomorrow!

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You are lucky they work for you. First time tried this morning and then the pain started, just hit like a missile. Worst ever, am in agony and had to leave work early, so can only conclude the heat inflamed the whole area. Strangely, a hot water bottle is fine.

Any advice, anyone? Would be so grateful as can’t go on like this.

My back’s condition is very complex and the pain clinic is nervous of recommending anything other than steroid injections. And I am nervous of those as they said if the injections don’t work (they haven’t before) could be left in a worst state than now. Its hopeless, and am in despair.

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Damn. Sorry to hear that! Maybe you need something between the hot pad and you?

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Double damn....couldn’t even feel any heat - didn’t think have the skin of an elephant!

Thank you for replying, waylay.

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Wish I could help. :/

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Thank you. You seem so nice. X

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You too. :)

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Hope so. Can’t do “toxic” people. Are you in UK?

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Me neither! Recently kicked a couple of toxic people out of my life. Yup, Eastern UK. You?

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Landed up in central London.........📣💦

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You’re so right, there’s no point in keeping ’em in you life. We have enough to deal with, no?

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Exactly. :)

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Jealousy. ;) Wish I could live in London. My partner lives near Caledonian Rd Tube Station.

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Oh, please don’t harbour 😏. Probably the toxic fumes 😷 and death-defying Uber drivers 👀 will carry us lot off before the sssh p-a-i-n........

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Haha!

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All very well for you in The East.....us Townies have a tough time of it - everyone being so young ‘n that. X

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Nah, I'm in Cambridge. They're almost all young, healthy, pretty... And often entitled. :/

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And I live by the railroad sidings, so toxic fumes aplenty.

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By choice?

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Cambridge is lovely, as I remember it. My first fiance 🎓went to Trinity after which became a serial fianceer. Had fun though, nearly turned me into an alcoholic if his Finals hadn’t come up. (MA failed)...🍾🍾🍾🍾,

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I use morphine patches called Butrans patches and have had no side effects but they really help take the edge oof the pain throughout the day. I wear them for a week and then change them. I have used them for years and if I dont wear one, I really notice the difference. I would therefore recommend them. What have you got to lose?

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A lot, if one discivers an allergy to narcotics!

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Do you have an allergy?

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Apparently yes as they made me so ill. Regular morphine at the lowest dose worked for two days, but didn’t feel at all well. The lowest dose patches are stronger so that’s when discovered the allergy/sensitivity. Didn’t work after two days anyway. Sorry, this is not very helpful!

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I’m not liking the word ‘narcotics’ it just sounds wrong

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I know - the word is not the kindest, but its only a word. Opiods and narcotics are similar (not quite the same) .

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Opiates and opioids are narcotics, along with cocaine, coca, and pot.

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Just a tiny diff., waylay, ‘cos checked on Ultimate Oracle Internet, but so small as to be inconsequential. The “O” words were deemed necessary to shut up/confuse Mr & Ms Public.

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Huh. Interested now. Can you send me the link?

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Are Opiates and Narcotics the same thing? ... Opiates refer to drugs that are derived from compounds present in opium (morphine, codiene, etc). Narcotic is an imprecise term related to analgesics, CNS depressants, or any drug capable of causing physical dependence, or legally, drugs like LSD or marijuana.10 May 2008

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Huh! Ty!

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Wot?

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Good to know! Thanks for the quote :)

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That’s good ... I knew it didn’t sound right 🙂

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Thanks DISC I will take comfort that they will work years as I am enjoying a little mobility although I do sometimes overdo it so keep drumming in pacing pacing pacing. I actually feel that I am making progress and on my way to getting better.

I didn’t think that I would have to have cancer for the patches to work.

X

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That’s wonderful. Very best of luck to you, Polyanna. Sooo jealous!!

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I can only say that I found nio side effects. If you do try them and have a side effect, you can just take the plaster off even though you may feel unwell for a day or two, and it might be worth trying them as the gains are worth more than the losses if they do work. Different types of patches may be better?

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Also I have found that gritting your teeth and getting on with it only makes worse .. well it has for me. Best of luck to you too. X

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Definitely. Look up the boom-bust cycle.

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You are so right. It was nonsense advice and am trying hard to contain my anger, as its really set me back. Paced today and just the lightest of bags....no more lugging heavy shopping. Have to get more organised! All the very best to you,

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Glad you sorted it out! That's really just the opposite of what a pain doc should say.

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Hi pollyannna I have been on fentanyl (a slightly different morphine patch) patches for years as well and I haven't had to increase them, had any nasty side effects either and I had found a new lease of life with them. That is until I managed to break my pelvis and spine in March and increased them to 75mg on my gp advice I thought that I had sciatica so I didn't want to go to the doctors after 3 weeks and it wasn't getting better actually it was getting worse I went to see him. He sent me for x ray which I put off for another 2 weeks because I am use to getting pain in the past and having to live with it. I knew something was wrong when having walked in,had the x ray, I was asked to keep very still, within minutes the room was full of medics who put me into a body and head thing that you can’t move in. 3 hours later I was allowed to go home for bed rest. But I was back to 50 mg by October. So if the patches are working for you then go with it

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Thank you sharing.. I’m so careful not to trip or fall as I’m frightened that if I do I might break again. Although I am on vitamin D tabs now ( I didn’t have any before, I think that’s why I broke) x

I am sticking with the patches it a light at the end if a very dark tunnel... just hope it’s not a train lol🤣😂🤣c

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Hi pollyanna. If you are having great success with the patches, may I ask why you want a higher dose ? As there is no such thing as a medication that takes away pain altogether, it makes sense to go for the lowest dose possible. You seems to have found something that works for you. Be glad.

The doctor at the pain clinic probably said up to 15 mg not that you should take it. That's how I interpret it anyway.

Hope the morphine patches continue to work for you.

Dee

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Hi Dee I am sorry you feel this way, I fear that you may have misunderstood what I was saying and why. So far I have been on more and more pain medication with little or no effects, and what I am so pleased about is that this is the only one which has had a measurable effect. I have tried dropping the others off one by one and slowly, but it seems I need those for the patch to work??

The measurable amount I am talking about is the difference between getting out of bed in a morning with manageable pain and every step thereafter manageable. I feel that I now have a starting point on which to build strength and tolerance. The reason I ask the doctor if I could try a larger dose was so that I could get mobile quicker, and the reason I asked everyone’s opinion on this matter was because the Doctor said that the patches only works on cancer patients, which I now know is untrue and people with MS pain also have success with them, and I’m sure that I don’t have MS or Cancer (God willing). I hope to improve and start enjoying life again, with mobility, even if not pain free.

I hope your doing ok and that the cold isn’t getting to you too much X

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hi polyannna i have been on the same dosage for just over eight months now i must say that it does make a difference in the pain relief if i did'nt use them i would not be working or able to stand and walk for very long

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Thank you for replying, I am encouraged to hear that it’s work for you too, I have found though that if I take my paracetamol late though I definitely know about it. I’m glad that it’s keeping you working, I’m hoping to return to work at some point ... it definitely keeps you sane. X

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hi you are right there it does keep you on the straight and narrow are you taking paracetamol as well as the patches as i only have to do that when i have over done any walking or house work standing for too long seems to my worst so i try to do everthing sitting down which takes some thinking

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