MRI Scan, any comments appreciated?

MRI Scan, any comments appreciated?

Had this scan 2011. Unfortunately it didn't reveal the sacroiliac joint disjointed, which luckily eased back into place after another 5 years of pain and instability. However, the problems as highlighted in this MRI scan still exist, plus the additional damage caused since the time of sacroiliac disjointed in 2000.

I would like to hear of any comments regarding the problems on the MRI scan, and should the GP have acted further, or was she correct in following the recommendation of no further treatment?

74 Replies

  • One of the things MRI scans do not show are muscle spasms or over contracted muscle or slightly over stretched ligament. This is an area that as far as I know no medical consultant has any training in.

    The indications from the MRI is that if you try and engage in movement activities that a person without your spinal problems engages in you will run into problems. You no longer have the range of unthinking movement that you would like to have. This does not mean that movement range is diminished. It means that if you engage in certain movements you will hit root nerves and stress structures you would not stress without the damage highlighted in the MRI scan.

    A bruised nerve root will take an hour or two to settle. During which time it will not function the way you would like.

    You are now in the situation where you have to observe yourself to see what movement causes you difficulty and what movement does not.

    Feel free to ask questions how to go about this.

  • Thank you johnsmith. A few months following the sacroiliac joint grating into the correct position, I experienced sciatica. Terrible pain, barely able to walk for 3 days. Finally settled, but left hand started to shake from that time, and left side weaker than it used to be. A few months down the line from that, experiencing fairly constant nerve pain, in desperation I bent over some apparatus to ease the pain and to try back strengthening exercises, and something must have rejigged as the constant pain went and back felt aligned. However, if I stand for more than 2 hours, I start getting a painful soreness across my lower back, which only eases after resting 48 hours.

  • Thanks for the reply.

    It might be worth trying Alexander Technique lessons. This will help you be more sensitive to postural issues.

    Also have a look at the NICE recommendations regarding chiropractic treatment. McTimony chiropractic is a very gentle treatment which helps keep the spine flexible by unlocking any small muscle spasms which can develop.

    I get McTimony chiropractic on the NHS about once every six weeks. This complements the Alexander Technique lessons reasonably well.

    The spine is an engineering structure. Your spine is a compromised engineering structure which has a reduced system stress breakdown point. Engaging in with McTimony Chiropractic and Alexander Technique should hopefully help keep below the stress breakdown point of your compromised spine.

    Hope this helps.

  • Thank you for all your suggestions which I will be looking into.

  • Just have a look once at this. I have been studying it for

    2 days now. I have something going on and Mayo Clinic wants

    to run a test to see if it is a problem with SI ..

    You can click on the video as well. It's far more interesting and

    it is faster moving. It's a lot about nerve entrapment. I suspected

    that it may be causing neuropathy in a friends legs.. that's really

    why I looked at the nerves. Now it's helping me to understand

    more how complex that area is..

    Pay special attention to how the nerves from L4, L5 make way up

    to L2 .... which is explaining why it hurts up higher for me..

    I'm not holding my breath but maybe it can help you too... and I

    know that johnsmith will be checking it out too..

    I'm learning Alexander Technique... Everything YOU learn will help

    you to help yourself. I do so much hope that you get some relief.

    Sounds miserable. Maybe they CAN do something..

    The facets and the SI have a lot of weight coming down on them...

    I didn't realize that the whole upper weight is carried there..

    Johnsmith, Am I wrong about this?

  • Hi Yikes2, what you say about the facets and SI carrying lot of body weight sounds right to me from what I have experienced over the last 10 years. No wonder I've had so much difficulty. And do have pain higher up in the back to.

    What test are the Mayo clinic running to see if SI related?

  • What is the video url please?


    and please see below reply from Yikes2, but she forgot to click reply to your message.

  • Many thanks. Have replied to Yikes2. Do you think my reply makes sense>

  • Yes. I'm not sure if you mentioned it but the muscles cramp up in order to protect the joint.

  • This is true. I would like to be able to say more, but there is a lack of reliable research.

    I think the situation is more complex than this. I have done a lot of work in Alexander Technique which indicates that the muscles associated with the joint does not need to remain cramped. I am in the position to expound theories that I cannot easily check, and thus cannot verify if the model I use is correct or not.

    Two heads are better than one, so if you want to compare your experience with mine on this issue I will be happy to explore it. I would certainly like to find the holes in my present working model.

    Look forward to hearing from you.

  • Hi johnsmith, I didn't realise it but for years after the fall, my right buttock muscles were completely cramped. I only discovered this when in desperation in trying for some pain relief (whilst the SI was still dislocated) I lay on the bed and stuck a rigid round headed item between my spine and the bed. I pressed against it and worked it down to my buttocks and the pain was intense as I repeated the hard pressure all over my buttocks. The relief was intense. The next day, I had to go out and to my dismay, discovered that it was difficult to fully straighten, so walked sloped slightly forward. And later in the day, whilst I wasn't thinking about it, the top of my spine bent sideways over my right hip. I forced myself to straighten up. I realised later that it was the cramped buttock muscles that had been keeping me upright and the right hip immovable in order to protect the SI joint, for several years.

  • Good theory based on personal experience. We just need to expand it a bit.

    My experience with kneading tight muscle (this done by my chiropractor) is that it takes a few days to recover from the kneading. This is because waste products from the muscle gone into spasm disperse into surrounding muscle which then complain and do not function as well for a short period of time afterwards (two to three days). This may have happened in your case.

    Muscles have good nervous system to contract. There is no nervous system to tell a muscle to un-contract. All the nervous system can do is to stop contracting. If a muscle has over contracted then even if the nervous system has stopped ordering the muscle to contract the muscle still remains contracted.

    Sometimes the over contracted muscle will become un-contracted by its own accord over time. Sometimes you need to find ways to stretch the muscle. The techniques of yoga are designed to do this. Sometimes you have to see a therapist who knows how to un-cramp a cramped muscle.

    The more a muscle contracts the weaker it gets. The longer a muscle is the stronger a muscle is.

    How you finding this so far?

  • Very interesting. Didn't realise the once contracted won't uncontract, and it was certainly the case with me that these muscles contracted/cramped for years, once massaged and eased, were very weak.

  • This I would expect because they have been starved of nutrient for a period of time. Were these muscle weak a week later?

    Weak seemingly muscles can be very confusing, because what you think as weak may feel to someone else as very strong. This is the feedback I get from T'ai Chi pushing hands practice.

  • The right side buttock spasmed muscles, that I relaxed were smaller than the left side. As far as I can remember felt weaker a week later.

  • How are they now? This is an area that I have not investigated on myself so have no clear ideas.

    The buttock and shoulder are related in regard that that there is spinal reflex to this area reflecting the state of the buttock. It may be subtle or it may be obvious. Be interested if you notice anything.

    I have answered the question regarding the vibration massage, but for some strange reason it appears to have disappeared.

    So I will give a short answer here. D'ont know the answer to the question as it is over 30 years since I played with such things.

    I think it is matter of experimenting with speed and force and see what happens.

    When a muscle gets over tense and stays there the propioceptors stop providing feedback as to their state. Propiopceptors register change. So the vibration could influence the propioceptors to provide feedback which in turn will influence muscle behaviour.

    Be interested in knowing the results of your experiments.

  • Hi johnsmith, as my back problems stretch (excuse the pun) over 10 years, it is hard to recollect all the changes, and side effects. Just when I think it's getting better, after some stretch or self manipulation, something else seems to go wrong. At the moment, my right lower back, right hip and right shoulder blade, next to spine are painful, due to nerve impingement. Had a seperate injury to this area 34 years ago. I found when walking up the stairs today, I feel my right side is carrying more weight then my left.

    The vibration helps to relax the muscles but might inflame nerve problems. My GP said, and I read, that vibration confuses the nerve pain receptors to the brain, which makes it seem less painful.

  • The problem we have is that most medical research has been on pain reception and not muscle behaviour. You have to search for the research on muscle behaviour. it is there, but hard to find.

    How does your GP know vibration confuses the nerve pain receptors where is the evidence that this is true. It is an opinion with no evidence to back it up. It is worth going back to the source and try and determine how the experiment was done to determine this.

    Your description of your back is what I get on occasion. I also know I will get it again. In me I definitely know it is a muscle control problem. A muscle spasm in the wrong place and my posture is pulled out of alignment. Fortunately I have a chiropractor who deals with the muscle spasms and things then righten themselves.

    One of the most important things in posture control is the head neck spinal reflexes which affect the strength of the legs.

    is worth reading. It is an introduction to what is a very complex topic. My own researches does not necessary agree with everything there but it is a good starting point for your own investigations.

    is worth looking at.

    Piratebay and demonoid is a good source for information as to what books are useful to buy or to obtain from your local library.

    As you can see there is a vast amount of information there which your medical consultants and GPs know nothing about.

    The neck has a role to play in some forms of sciatica. I have gotten sciatica and found by carefully looking in the mirror that my head was tilted to one side. Straightening the neck so that head and neck were in alignment removed the sciatica. Ie a neck head reflex and eye balance reflex was in action.

  • Hi johnsmith, I found a reference to the nerve confusion point: 'Massage confuses the body's pain signals. Rubbing may interfere with pain signals' pathways to your brain, a process called the "gate control theory", according to experts. Pain impulses run toward the spinal cord and then up the cord and into the brain. It's only when they reach the brain that these impulses are perceived as pain. When you rub, it sends other impulses along the same nerves. When all these impulses try to reach the brain through nerves, the nerves get clogged like a highway during morning rush hour. The result? Most of them won't reach the brain. If the pain signals do not reach the brain, you won't feel pain. Thus massage works by 'closing the gate' that pain impulses have to pass through.'

    But I do agree, GP's aren't very knowledgable, unfortunately not knowledgeable enough even to know when to refer people to specialists.

    Thank you for the info and links.

  • Had a look at the link. Familiar with gate control theory. However if you massage a muscle such that it stops applying pressure to a body that is inflamed then the pain generated by the inflamed body part will drop.

    Also I used to deal with the pain of tennis elbow by manually stretching some of the over contracted muscles in the forearm and upper arm. The result the arm functioned and the pain disappeared.

    There is a well known problem where the thumb can hurt like hell when pressure is applied. In a number of cases you can stop the pain by stretching one of the muscles in the forearm which is over contracted.

    The psychologists who developed the gate control theory did not work with muscles. They only considered pain nerves and never considered the things that generate pain and the response of the body to the things that still causes the pressures that generate pain.

    gate control theory has its place but must be considered in context with the whole of the body's engineering system and what is happening there.

    I remember a pain incident that happened to me in about 2000 where I had to be taken to hospital by ambulance. My back pain was off the charts.

    I sat in the hospital A&E upright engaged in deep meditation practice and barely noticed the pain. Very concentrated concentration so gate theory came into play or was it the case that I was so carefully balanced in the chair that very little pressure was being applied to the inflamed tissue.

    The consultant I saw said you cannot get a disk infection and antibiotics were not necessary. I was given very strong pain killer. Searches on the internet showed that this consultant was incompetent with their conclusion.

    Saw my own GP two days later got prescribed antibiotics problem disappeared within a day of taking the antibiotics.

    Be interested in what you think.

  • A google search brings up Discitis. Shouldn't he have tested for an infection regardless of what might be causing it.

    Interesting that stretching can remove muscle pain. Why do you think that is?

  • I presume you are referring to backguru reconsiderations having tried them.

    This is not going to be a complete answer because we are dealing with a system to which you have applied muscle stretching.

    Over contracted muscle applies pressure on tissue (bone included) that does not like pressure. In everyday movement pressure is applied and pressure is removed. The body tissues are designed for this.

    When the muscle remains over contracted tissue nutrients do not get into tissue and waste products are not removed. The tissue will complain and pain and discomfort type nerves inform the brain that there is a problem.

    Nerves can get stretched and compressed and as a result their function is compromised. This is fed back into the system and you can get referred pain.

    The muscles receive nutrients from small blood vessels which are about one blood corpuscles wide. When a muscle is contracted the small blood vessel is closed. This means nutrient is not delivered to muscle nor waste products are removed.

    When a muscle is stretched the closed blood vessel is no longer closed and nutrients can get to muscle and waste products can be removed.

    Pressure is removed from tissues and nerves have pressure removed from them. This will cut down the discomfort to to the system and pain should be reduced.

    It may be a bit more complicated than this. What happens is that the system registering discomfort can reduce the discomfort by various means. When the over contracted muscle lengthens again the pain can increase because the system registering discomfort switches fully back on again. Also the waste products in the muscle which were held in the muscle now can move out of the muscle. The surrounding tissue complains about the waste products and the pain will increase. This effect is of short duration.

    Does this make sense to you.

  • What do you think about vibration massage to help with relaxing muscles?

  • In my experience, the responses of the muscles in acute phase of back pain - by nature, severe but short-term - and the chronic phase are very different. The purpose of the acute muscle response is to temporarily 'splint' and protect an inflamed spinal segment; it is fantastically strong and it is meant literally to lay you low, preferably in bed, until things calm down. The pain at this stage is crippling and very scary. Importantly, the body, one's intuitive instincts, and practitioners all need to heed this, since all but the most gentle hands-on treatment can be inflammatory, which is why bed rest with a board under the mattress is safer. This is important, because if acute muscle spasm veers over into the realms of chronic, where the muscle stays contracted for seeming;y no reason and things can be harder to shift. In my opinion, muscle spasm - and how you deal with it - is the wildcard that determines whether the problem becomes intractable (chronic). If you are still in this scary, solitary, early stage, you will need to do gentle 'appeasing exercises' (see but you will also need strong and competent medication: anti-inflammatories, painkillers and anti-spasm drugs short term.

  • Thank you backguru. Your link isn't working, takes to the site but not specific area, but can search on the site.

  • Thank you. Tried those two exercises and already feeling better and less sorry for myself : ). Will now look into her 'back pain relief video package'.

  • Hi backguru, just to let you know that since doing the exercise, spine rocking, my back has improved quite a lot. So thank you. Good back problems site, for sure.

  • Hi johnsmith, might be my imagination but have some of my replies disappeared? Any way aw GP today. She informed that they they cannot refer to chiropractor or osteopath from that surgery/Islington. She said other boroughs may have different guidelines.

    However, after trying a back exercises (approx a week ago) that someone suggested on this or another of my posts, my back does feel a lot better. The exercise, spinal rolling must have helped to push vertebrae into place. Usually after 3 or 4 hours of walking and bending my back starts feeling very sore across the lower back. After trying this exercise for a few days, I manged 5 hours before it started to hurt, and not as much. I stretched the lower back and felt better again.

  • Have you shown the Gp the NICE guidelines? If you have then you need to contact


    Glad to hear that the exercises you have tried work for you.

    I have lost some of my replies on occasion. I am not sure whether it was a fault on the browser or for some other reason like a hiccup on the website.

  • Hi johnsmith, it's probably all down to my difficulty in understanding the NICE guidelines. Or/and not understanding if different districts can legally interpret them as they wish?

    There was definitely something awry going with this site a couple of days ago.

  • The following may be of use. The NICE web site is a lot more difficult to follow than the last time I looked at it a few months ago.

    Low back pain: Early management of persistent non-specific low back pain

    NICE guidelines [CG88] Published date: May 2009

    section 1.4 Manual therapy

    The manual therapies reviewed were spinal manipulation (a low-amplitude, high-velocity movement at the limit of joint range that takes the joint beyond the passive range of movement), spinal mobilisation (joint movement within the normal range of motion) and massage (manual manipulation or mobilisation of soft tissues). Collectively these are all manual therapy. Mobilisation and massage are performed by a wide variety of practitioners. Manipulation can be performed by chiropractors and osteopaths, as well as by doctors and physiotherapists who have undergone specialist postgraduate training in manipulation.

    1.4.1 Consider offering a course of manual therapy, including spinal manipulation, comprising up to a maximum of nine sessions over a period of up to 12 weeks.

    Hope this is of use

  • Thank you Johnsmith, I have a feeling she will just say that I have tried the NHS physios, which I did previously, who were particularly useless, and won't be able to offer chiro or osteo?

  • PS someone just alerted me to

  • This is outside my field of knowledge so would not like to comment.

    Have a look at

  • Thank you. Very informative. Costs £10,000, wow, not an option for most people, but does sound like it could help.

  • My pain is about where my bra clasps and a little lower in general..

    My new plain IS. Being felt exactly at L5 up to T11. I had a bone scan that shows some uptake (activity, prion inflammation there) of l stand in

    Line at a grocery checkout my back hurts there so severely that leaning on

    The cart or bending over like l would be trying my shoe is the only Bending back a little almost makes me pass out with pain.

    When on in bed and l have to stay laying but roll to my side and reach up a little with my hand to shut off my lamp then my low back makes a thump noise. Its painless. I can do it again and again and l know that my spine

    Is shifting. It's not like the pop of gas or air in the vertebra, it's a thump.

    I have not let a doctor know that yet but will.

    I'm more worried about what nerves are entrapped where they pass through big muscle bands and the openings in the bony parts. I have neuropathy going on. It's my quest to follow nerve pain pathways and then guess where

    The nerves might encounter a pinch or a problem.

    The facets do not act alone to hold up your upper body weight..

    For women breasts can be heavy, our lower abdominais can carry

    A lot of stress for those structures if that's an issue for some...

    One extra pound is tons of pressure on your lower back..

    So... You and l are kinda suffering the same. My body was abused by playing sports, mainly soccer, snowboarding, a few good workouts skiing, water and snow..l had fun the first 45 years of life and now on 48 and paint for it.

  • Hi Yikes2, brief synopsis of route of my back problems: the sacroiliac joint displacement was the result of an accident, a fall off a fence onto my hip/upper thigh. Didn't realist the problem till years later. The pain following the accident was improved by manipulating by a physio, who twisted my upper body quickly and I believe lodged the part of the joint under the other part, making more stable but not actually fitting/slotting it into place. Ridges in one side have to fit into grooved the other side, which I believe did happen in bed when I was in a strange position and twisted my upper body and felt and heard a grating. You're right about L5, stupidly damaged this when removing soil in a large wheel barrow, twisted my spine and squashed the disc several times when trying to maneuver the wheel barrow into my hall.

  • It's the most vulnerable L5, that is. Other e is a nerve directly below L5' it has less protection. That nerve is part of the sympathetic system. It would cause pain around L 2 because it loops upward out the side directly to L2'

  • Thank you Yikes2.

  • You are very welcome. It seems like a pain in the butt to do your own studies on this but then at least you will understand whats happening. Its nice to see another person taking an active approach to fix what is wrong as much as possible on your end so you can say "hey doctor, I did all that I can possibly do" and even then sometimes it's a wait and suffer kind of thing.. The Alexander Technique makes some sense but I have to work at it .. I am sick of having this much pain. Mine hurts so bad that I actually vomit with pain at times. Mostly when my back goes out and I am forced to take a step or two to safety or when I fall down to the ground with it.. and so I worry about that stability issue.. it doesn't feel like it's the problem.. it feels like the SI joint and the leg lengths are telling me yes.. it is.

    I will be doing chiropractor before surgery.

    Getting those muscles built up more is not going to work. IT actually cripples me for a day or two. I really need to finish my Rituxin tomorrow (chemo) for nerve disease and then get to Mayo Clinic again.. I was invited.

  • You're lucky Yikes2, I have the uphill struggle of trying to convince my GP of my problems. Also, have hypothyroidism, which I had to self-diagnose and self-medicate due to the disinterest, incompetence of my surgery.

  • John Smith, posted video.

  • Many thanks.

    Watched all 25 minutes of it. Cannot fault any of it. However, no talk about the input muscles have in this.

    I have been having McTimony chiropractic treatment since 1993. This treatment was on the NHS since 1994. Time and time again my chiropractor has shown me that muscle behaviour was causing the pain and discomfort not my discs. The evidence I have of my own senses is that muscles have a very large input and muscle behaviour can be influenced. Unfortunately muscles require continual training.

    In regard to the video I cannot comment on pain messages or disc damage causing pain. Because that is what they are designed to do. We have no control on that part except for pain killers. However what are the muscles doing in all this. What are the spinal reflex arcs doing in all of this.

    Muscles by contracting increase the pressure on the damaged area. This is what the video failed to consider.

    When I did my physics degree I did some fluid dynamics. The person in the video unfortunately did not discuss fluid dynamics in regard to diffusion of nutrients. Movement of the discs plus compression and depression of the discs diffuse nutrients quite effectively. So a little bit of a false picture was created in the video. Compression and depression of the discs is carried by the movement of muscles.

    Somewhere, I have read that over a very short period of time the human musculature can delivery 10 horsepower. That is a lot of power and a lot of potential damage. A sudden movement with muscles in high power mode can do damage if applied.

    Muscles consist of fast fibres and slow fibres. Fast fibres can generate high power and have low endurance. Slow fibres can generate low power and have high endurance.

    Inflammation of tissues reduces the room available. Because there is less room available pressure is more easily transmitted to the pain nerves.

    Hope this is helpful

  • Hi Yikes have you started treatment at the Mayo Clinic yet?

    Also, have you heard of:

  • It sure sounds like it might work for me.? I am dealing with Mayo clinic right now. They have decided to switch up doctors for me to specialty.. I am thinking that there is no CIDP..My issue is my back. I have some numbness in my feet, some loss of reflexes but I am strong, very strong as they noted on my chart. I had a big treatment for this supposed CIDP (rituxan, methotrexate) it did nothing but make me tired, very. It took down my immune system. I feel like I am in a bad nightmare of wrong treatments.

    I had the protein in my spinal fluid draw but I am missing some really big symptoms of the disease.

    When my back gives out, my legs get weak to carry me to safety to either plop down to by back or to at least sit.. How that is CIDP? I don't know. A specialist from John hopkins is picking it up.. my case, that is. so we will see what's going on for sure in a month. =)

    I am at the end of my rope with pain and what you showed me looks like a dead ringer for my treatment.I would like to have the doctor look at it if he is open to that kind of thing. Thank you for looking this one up... will discuss again when I hear from them what they want.

  • Hi Yikes2, I just read a bit about CIDP, but couldn't comment on whether it could cause all of your symptoms. Certainly sounds very alarming for legs to suddenly give out like that.

    Great that another specialist is taking over your case and look forward to hearing of your progress with him.

    The gelstix treatment (unfortunately costs £10,000 and unavailable on the NHS) is described in layman's terms here:

    And in more scientific terms here:

  • Oh man oh man, I do apologize that I've not let it sink in

    Bulge, Bulge, Bulge even a minor narrowing is totally different

    than I can say.. Oh Gosh please forgive me.. I am on a computer

    that can read your MRI much better.. (the results)

  • At the time of the MRI, my sacroiliac joint was disjointed but an MRI isn't able to pick this up. Luckily after much stretching and self manipulation this joint locked back into place. A couple of months later I had the sciatica, that was approx 6 months ago. The MRI conclusion is that no further treatment is needed, therefore GP didn't offer any further help.

  • I don't think that your emotional health or physical health was dealt with properly. I think that what they did to you is basically Pushed you out of the boat into the middle of the ocean.

    Thinks to my self how could they dismiss you without a plan of action to help you cope since leaving the scene of an accident.. You are the hurt one my dear.. but I have questions to ask you..

    Did you have a follow up with your doctor who ordered this test yet? Better yet, did you receive a written reply about when to see him/her or did you get refereed some place? If so, call and see if you can get another appointment just to talk about test results and further options for pain relief. If you did not yet get a reply then you need to do the same thing..

    If the answer is no appointment necessary, Tell them that you have no idea what to do and that you can't live like you are in

    so much pain.. ask them specifically to refer you to someone who can help you to not hurt your back further and to help you get back into life... or get some disability help from your government. You need some health benefits or money at least to afford to survive or/and to pay for private help since your doctor thinks that you need no follow up.

    follow up private can mean chiropractor,

    Physical therapy,

    Pain psychologist.

  • After I saw that there was no recommendation for further treatment on my copy of the MRI. My brother told me to get the actual scan print (he's a radiologist). My GP told me to call the MRI place to see if they would send it to me. I think I lost hope before I followed through with this, also was suffering from hypothyroidism, also not diagnosed by GP, so didn't have a lot of energy, and had unclear thinking processes.

  • Of corse you are hunny, youve been getting swept along in the current. Its time to make anothrt call and let you brother know

  • I was thinking about calling MRI people but thought they wouldn't have kept the scans this long.

  • Just called the MRI place and the images (from 2011) are still available (I bet now my brother won't be interested in looking at them) and they will send to my surgery in disc form. If they were to send to me directly it would cost £40 !

  • Ask them to send them, to GP and have an appointment already made. I went through this in the USA. I found that I have to do 100% of the doctors communication process from one to the other doctor. I am thinking: Jeez, I am the sick one and I have to do all of this work and keep it all staright but guess what? The doctor appointment is useless without me doing all of this work and no, I do not have the most terrible doctors in the world. I have excellent doctors that happen to be overworked just as well as the doctor's staff is. They all have so much to do that even sitting down with the doctors nurse and asking for her to do some of the coordination failed... and she is not lazy or scatter brained. Over time is not allowed and she is on her feet booked solid with appointments back to back for some patients and she has all of the paper work to do.... since managed health care came into play and they get some limited pay per patient there is no money left over for hiring a person to coordinate this stuff.. in the USA, they throw it onto the insurance company to do and they put that task off so I have to do it..

    Now I imagine your healthcare provider gets a certain amount - not nearly what private practice offers for services ...and they have the same going on so if you are sick, bring someone with you that will make the calls and coordinate... If there is no one look for a volunteer service ... lets find one for you through others that read this or make a post to ask ...please... and lets get the ball rolling for you to get some additional help.

    Sounds like you are grabbing onto the knot at the end of the rope and are pretty exhausted to do this alone.. giving into a little bit of neighborly help is really a good thing.. sit back and relax after we ask someone for a reference to help you navigate through the weave of process...

    And I remember being so sick that i couldn't even stand up at one low time.. I had such a hard time of letting go and letting someone help me.. i didn't want them to know my business but when i did let go and had them help me, I cried with relief.. they came to me with appointments and I didn't have to do anything. At that time My husband was working so much that I barely saw him at all... we needed the money to pay things that were out of my control....he did his part and I worked with a coordinator to get stuff done.

    Please don't say no.. Do you want to ask on here for phone numbers to help us get going? Now you are not alone. =)

  • Despite the 'free' NHS in the UK, diagnosis and treatment are potluck.

    The GP could not interpret the images, maybe my brother if I can catch him in a good mood, or ultimately a chiropractor.

    At the time I really needed a diagnosis that the sacroiliac joint had disjointed on a fall 10 years earlier, we caused most of my problems. Doubtless it being in this condition caused other damage, but previous to the injury had squashed a disc moving tons of soil through my hall in a wheelbarrow.

  • You had that MRI 3 years ago??

    Things can change hugely in three years especially since you think that you have knocked it into place..

    The L3, L4. L5=especially between L-5 and SI joint.. that one would be felt

    at L2... all injuries to the nerves below that point in the column right to the tip of the tailbone are going to be felt there..L2, that is..

    And if you have a tear there ... and are leaking some fluid that again will be felt in L2, not actully where it is .. sometimes even in SI joint... and some of that fluid from injured L5 will surely get in there...

    You are looking at too complicated of a process to just guess.. I think that you need a diagnostic injection... and sooner before your muscles start more serious atrophy If fluid is leaking there in the L5 then intervention ... if not then you may have better diagnostic procedure to know that things have or haven't gotten worse...

    I am asking for further thoughts and help from others please on this....

    Am I fishing in the wrong pond for answers about what I just said? I did not forget that the scan says no more needs to be done from her last radiology but this person has been suffering greatly since the last MRI in 2011. She has too much pain to ignore it. She needs to be left with a plan to address that pain. I also am very aware that she needs to do some form of physical movement - some sort of re-education on how to live with her current back and body.. with this pain.

    I think that diagnostics since it's been so long since last one needs to start with a different MRI or CT scan.. looking for leakage.

    Please help this awesome person.

  • Thank you for calling me awesome, but I'm far from that.

    Could fluid leakage cause the weakness on my left side or the shaking left hand, or is it nerve damage?

  • Yes to weakness around the L2 to Sciatica that controls pretty much everything from skin to bone in the legs - possibly weakness subject to one hip or the other including leg weakness.. but remember, the fluid leakage is limited to about 1-3% of all people with torn area around L3, L4, L5 and lower..

    It's a very slim chance but being that you still have so much pain, it needs to get looked at as a possibility unless your doctor has seen better evidence of damage elsewhere in that area and probably you have been left with residual pain from the surgery it'self.

    I doubt it if it's going on with your wrist but it's a possibility and needs to get investigated more. 3 years of this much pain without a second look is just too long.. It can be because of your muscle relaxer.. again, that would be something that is so rare but in my case it was. My hand stopped it now off the Baclofen.

    johnsmith and the others might want to give input about this being possible.

  • I'll try again with GP, but she was adamant that my only option was the NHS physio, who were so useless last time. Told her my left leg was weaker and hand shook but she said could only refer me for numbness indicating central cord damage!!

    Thank you for persisting with a diagnosis, I didn't know about the L2 indications.

  • That's only step one. Now you need to get together what you need at that appointment including getting the MRI sent over there. It's so important that they get the MRI and rays. physicians last words or the last written report.

    You also will need The report that you showed to us on here ...

  • My GP was away when the report info was provided. An unkown GP, told me over the phone. He said something about don't worry you shouldn't be rushing to have an operation. But really can't remember exactly, 6 years ago. I got a copy of the MRI report and saw it said no further treatment and gave up.

    If my current GP already has a copy and sees 'recommended treatment - none', she won't be able to decipher the images. They will be helpful if I ever get to see a specialist, though there has been both a positive (sacroiliac joint slotted back into place, and negative: sciatica.

  • Wait, your sciatica nerve is okay from that report? Right now you have some pain there? Correct me if I am wrong here..but you have pain down the back of your leg or at the hip level..

  • Hi Yikes2, my sciatica happened a month or so after my sacroiliac joint slotted into place. I'm guessing that the spinal instability for so long caused other misalignments which caused the sciatica. Symptoms, could barely stand and terrible pain through all my spine hips and right leg. Back pain was worse after this but since further exercises/stretches have managed to align my spine better so not so much pain, and sometimes no pain unless I stand for a few hours.

  • So at the present moment, you can stand for a couple of hours? So not much pain at all right now?

    Your story sounds like it was horrible when you went through this awful motion of clicking back into place ( at least you hope that it is back in place)

    THAT was painful but now you are saying no pain or pain only when you stand a few hours then it hurts...

    hmm.. If I was your doctor, I would say that I wouldn't mess with any of it. The operation that you had significantly changed the way that you will live. A job like you had done in there is never going to feel great. It was designed to bring you at least 50% relief. There forth you are doing awesome as it is the best that it can get at the point that you are at..

    You deserve to be treated as a queen when you are among people. You are injured like I am with my prosthetic knee that was replaced 6 times. We both have a degree of pain off and on. I love it when people give up their chair so I may sit while its acting up bad. I still can talk to people and have fun, laugh, tell stories. But I can do no activity sometimes. My back causes me a huge degree of pain so no way can I talk to them.....I can't even walk 400 ft and I can't stand 2 minutes without falling to the floor or bending at the waist to touch my toes because the facets are so bad...

    They will only get better by 50% if I have them replaced, I was told.. and they might end up 50% worse too then they are right now. The odds aren't too good for me to have surgery right now. I'm waiting to talk to my doctor about the gel that you sent to me in the article. I am betting that the gel breaks down in the body and then you've got trouble. X Karen

  • Hi Karen, very sorry to hear of your prosthetic knee and your damaged facets. Seems I am in a better place than you and can only wish you the better.

    I didn't have an operation, the sacroiliac joint grinded back into place whilst I was twisting and stretching in bed.

    The gel would cost £10,000, maybe health insurance would cover this?

    Right now the right side of my lower spine and right hip are sore after walking 60 mins today. I will try a stretch and a spine roll in a minute to see if that helps.

    Certainly when my spinal nerves are flaring up, I can't think of much else and not in a talkative mood.

  • I am sorry that you are having some strong discomfort after walking.

    Mine came on overnight for me. I was fine one night and practically on the disabled side. I kept working out to the

    uninjured parts of me.

    Gradually moving along, I fell on the

    floor a few times and must have knocked something loose. I started

    having such pain that I am now bed bound most of the day and night.

    I can't get myself back up again but I manage to get into sitting position to read this blog (s( of HU am our others.

    I will keep thinking on your issue... not talking.. I will keep hoping.

  • Hi, I think you've already answered this somewhere but what diagnostic tools where used to ascertain your problem?

  • I did answer it. I had a doctor visit yesterday late afternoon and got some really bad news concerning blood tests. My kidneys are working at half of what they should and my liver the same. Both are from a medicine "Methotrexate" that I am taking for a nerve disease. My nerves are dying per Mayo Clinic. In 2 weeks time, my liver and kidneys went south. I'm really sick but will get back to you later..

    I'm not kidding you, I will be back on Monday about this with you. Hold me to it. lol

  • I'm very sorry to hear that Karen. I hope you will be able to get some help very soon. hear from you on Monday. x

  • MRI (I was put completely under to get this one perfect. Mayo did not want me to move at all) CT scan, X rays, Bone Scans, Physical at doctors office - Neurology, Rheumatology. Pain psychologist, my physical therapist,

    All helped to form an opinion of what was going on. They are pretty smart cookies at Mayo Clinic. I have to trust them. I am kinda at the bottom of the barrel right now.

  • Best of luck and I look forward to hearing of positive development for you Karen. x

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