I have come to this site as my partner's mother has advanced ovarian cancer and I am desperately seeking/researching how to help her.
She was diagnosed late last year, has undergone chemotherapy, but adamantly refuses to have a hysterectomy.
My partner doesn't trust the doctors and is very much into naturopathy. He doesn't want her to go back for more chemotherapy or an operation, and his mum trusts him more than anyone and listens to him more than any Dr, so this is how they are going forward...
It has reached a point now where she is constantly getting bad ascites and it keeps coming back even after drainage. The Dr. told her when we last visited for a check in that this will kill her if she doesn't have a hysterectomy/more chemo. Still, my partner's mum is determined not to have any further treatment from a conventional hospital.
She has been taking a lot of natural remedies and has been following a vegetarian/vegan/raw diet. For a while it seemed this was really doing her some good, but it obviously hasn't healed her completely because the cancer has not gone, if anything it appears to have returned.
My partner gets so angry if I suggest she goes back to the hospital and their way of treating the cancer. I'm really deeply concerned to say the least.
Does anyone know of any specialists in the UK who deal with advanced stage ovarian cancer and the ascites in particular?
My partner seems to think that the reason the ascites has come up is because the cancer has gone and his mum's body is fighting to detox... I don't know how true any of that could possibly be as I am not a Dr and I don't fully understand.
I would so greatly appreciate anyone's input here.
With much love and many thanks xx
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Maria2828
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This is tricky, whilst I understand your concerns, your partners mother is entitled to choose what ever treatment she deems as suitable for her. However I do think we need to be completely informed to make life changing decisions, with that in mind can you get hold of some literature that outlines Ovarian cancer, stages, prognosis etc and give it to her to read, it may not change her mind but at least you will know that her decisions are informed. Try a Macmillan centre, your doctors surgery or local hospital. Or maybe get her to have a look online, Ovacome and Cancer research has lots of info on Ovarian cancer as do other charity's. Good Luck
Lyn has suggested a good way forward and as she says, it is her right to decide. It may be worth asking if she is afraid of conventional treatment? Although if she has had chemo already this suggests not.
It can be depressing to deal with people who don’t recognise the truth that you see staring them in the face. However if you can focus on the support you need ( I know that’s counterintuitive) and let her deal with it, you may find she finds her way to a more sensible approach on her own. best of luck xx
Does your partner's mother realize she will DIE if she doesn't get treatment? The two strongest predictors for longer term survival are 1) surgery that removes all visible signs of the cancer (also known as R-0) and 2) the dropping of CA125 into low normal range after front line chemo. If good diet, exercise, no smoking and no alcohol could cure this disease then I'd not have gotten it to begin with. No amount of organic, macrobiotic diet will kill advanced ovarian cancer. If that were possible there would not be any need for a forum such as this one. All that said, it is her choice whether to have chemo and surgery. She may be more comfortable with letting the cancer take her. I am 3C HGSE and have been battling this cruel disease intermittently for 4 years.
If it is a fear of surgery you might be able to tackle this rather than going head on about her decision. Talking to someone who has had the procedure, visiting the hospital ward where she will be cared for etc. My hysterectomy was fine and I felt so much better from getting rid of the cancer xx
Thank you Lyndy, I'm really glad to hear you are feeling much better. How are you doing now after the operation? Do you mind at all if I ask you about your experience? xx
Traditional and complimentary medicine is what I try to follow, but I don't believe complimentary can cure cancer alone or as someone already said here "we would not need this wonderful forum".
I think the other ladies have pretty much covered this, I would like to add, however, that indeed she does have the right to choose what she believes is the best option for herself and she is obviously being strongly influenced by your partners beliefs in this.
There is nothing in any one of our minds here that believe complementary medicines can heal our cancer, they do have their place but they have to be alongside tried and tested ‘traditional’ treatments.
Her medical team have clearly set out the probable results of declining surgery and further chemo yet the thoughts of your partner and his mum remain unchanged, so they are completely aware of what will most likely happen if they continue down the path they have both chosen. I am somewhat surprised that chemo was acceptable to them in the first instance.
I totally understand your desire to get the best for her and possibly getting information for her, that clearly sets out all the known problems and related treatments that apply to our cancer for her to read, may be a good idea, but, you also have to weigh up your relationships here, your MIL and your partner want one thing and you want something else. You have met an impasse. Your partner will need your support when his mum passes (regardless of whether or not it is the cancer or something else) and any acrimonious discussions that happen now could damage your relationship and long term memories later on.
I, personally, think that once you have done the best you can to gently endorse the doctors advice and know in your heart of hearts you’ve done your very best, and can do no more, then you have to accept their choice and be there to support them both.
I hope you get some peace with this difficult situation. We are all her to support you in any way we can with this. Take care of you ❤️Xx Jane
Thank you so much Jane for your message. This encourages me and makes me feel some strength in addressing things. I really appreciate your kind and wise words xx
I'm so glad to hear that you are doing well Carole, bless you. Thank you with all my heart for your kind and supportive message. I would really like it if my MIL had the debulking and some more chemo. I can only imagine her fear and I understand the reluctance to have it but I believe it will help her greatly.
As everyone else has said, ascites mean the tumour is still present, I know from experience, it won’t go away without tumour removal or shrinkage by chemo and probably a full hysterectomy, but, you can only advise, maybe show her these replies, but, if you or MIL wants to pm me, please feel free.
I think the responses above cover a lot of what I wanted to say.
I will add this though. Ascites is NOT an indication that the cancer has gone. Ascites is most likely present because the cancer is still there. If you do a google search for "why does ascites occur in ovarian cancer" you will find some info. Cancer research UK has a couple of paragraphs that give you an indication of what ascites is and why it is present in OC (two possible reasons are that the cancer cells have irritated the lining and caused fluid build up or that the cancer is blocking the lymphatic system and is causing fluid build up). Our bodies are pretty good sometimes at telling us when something isn't right - ascites is one of the things that we should take notice of.
As everyone else has said it is only the person with the cancer who can decide what they wish to do, but this should be an informed decision.
Have you considered recommending the Ovacome helpline? Many ladies on this forum have used it, including myself, and found it to be very comforting and informative. If nothing more, your MIL can ask whatever questions she would like to with no judgement and no pressure.
Also I was absolutely terrified of having surgery. I'd never been seriously ill before, had never had to stay in a hospital, never really took any kind of medication. So utterly terrified. I went to see a qualified medical herbalist (a friend and colleague of mine who worked with a cancer charity) and she just took one look at me and said 'get the surgery'. I did, it was scary, but the best decision I made. I felt so much better, so much so, that I was incredibly surprised just how ill I must have been. My point is, that a well trained and experienced herbalist will be working with the doctors rather than against them.
You are in a difficult position as you also need to be supportive to your family and their decisions. So I would try to steer your MIL towards some of the organisations mentioned just to talk to someone about these things with no pressure attached to it and to take the pressure off you to be 'the other view'. Facilitate her towards getting some information to make sure she's fully informed. If at the end of it she feels she doesn't want treatment then all you can do is support her decision.
Not much else to add other than advice to you, everyone else has said most everything, but I am really surprised that your partner and mother in law were happy to go ahead with chemotherapy, because I'd choose surgery over chemo any day. Not that I like surgery, I don't, I hate it, no one was more terrified than I when I had to have it done... but the chemo freaks me out even more because it can cause irreversible damage to some body cells and functions. There is always a price for any medical intervention, and I don't mean financially.
Ascites is a symptom of cancer progression, and it won't go away no matter how many times it is drained. Sometimes chemo can clear it, but doesn't always. Without the surgery, she's not long to live, and it appears she has been told that loud and clear by the doctors, but chooses not to acknowledge it. In reality, depending what stage and what type of ovarian she has, she may not have long anyway, but I'm more concerned about your partner's reaction when she does die. Your mother in law might be one of those people who prefer not to look at the reality of the situation, choosing instead to stick her head in the sand, but she won't be the first to do that and certainly not the last. It's the only way many people can cope, and if that's how they are, well, it's one way of dealing with a truly horrendous situation. I often wish I wasn't a reality freak and didn't have such an inquiring mind myself, it must be easier to just not look...
However, I'm more concerned about you; your partner may suffer guilt or remorse after she dies, especially if he realises the medical truth of the matter and grasps that he gave the wrong advice, and that will have an effect on your own life... Hopefully, when the inevitable happens, he'll just choose to believe it was meant to be because, ultimately, in truth, no one gets out of here alive do they, rather than recognising his own, misguided role in what happened... You say you have already suggested more than once to him that his mother should take the more conventional approach and have the surgery. His angry response probably means he's not able to cope with the fear of loss (anger is mostly a secondary, 'cover' emotion, usually caused by underlying fear being triggered) and I would not recommend you offer that advice again - if you've pointed it out clearly more than once, there's no point in saying any more, but you will have to deal with his emotional aftermath when the inevitable occurs, so be prepared for both that and the loss of your mother in law. It's really all you can and should do, because you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink; your partner and his mother have the right to make their own choices in how to deal with this horrible situation, even if you know they're misguided, so my advice is, prepare yourself for what's coming, take care of yourself and keep as mentally and emotionally strong as possible.
One other thing - if you ever get anything very serious wrong with you, make your own decisions about how to deal with it, please... there are some non fatal malfunctions and illnesses where alternative therapies are the most effective or even the only route, but not when it comes to cancer. You may be able to slow down cancer by taking certain things and changing your diet, but its highly unlikely to disappear with just that approach, and to be frank, with very advanced ovarian , its unlikely to disappear even with a conventional approach, though the affected person may get more time if they have treatment.
Your words really run home to me and I know what you say to be true. I am going to try to very gently talk with my partner next week, but I am worried about the outcome of that. He is determined not to go the conventional way, is convinced that the Drs want to harm his mother instead of heal her. It's proving very difficult to even open his mind (and so his mother's mind) to the option of further chemo and surgery. I hope that with the right words and gentleness I can at least present the possibility to him as something benign, something he can consider with trust and hope instead of the fear.
Maria, Have your partner read this forum. His mother is going to DIE without intervention. I am concerned that your partner is stubborn and hard to reason with. This does not make for healthy relationships. Steve Jobs (APPLE) decided to go the "natural " route to heal his pancreatic cancer. He died. If organic/natural foods could cure this then organic eaters in good health would never get cancer to begin with. Good luck dealing with your partner and his mother. I am concerned for YOU. Dealing with people in denial is stressful. Best of luck to you.
Thank you so much for your advice. It's a very sensitive thing to address. I know he's scared. I am going to try and talk to him this week... I expect he will get defensive. I'm very worried because his mum is now declining to go and get the ascites drained... She was due to have it done today but changed her mind at the last minute.
I'm really worried, and I don't know how to tell him how worried I am.
I don't want to frighten them with real talk, though I know I have to address this. Otherwise I'm perpetuating danger in being soft and allowing them to depend on hope alone... I don't know where to draw the line between being positive and being practical...
The ascites are not the result of detoxing. Her son is in denial as much as his mum is. One needs a wisdom in this desperate situation that may not be easy to come by.
It is very hard to recover to the point of curing with naturals after one had the chemo. There are things that changed in the body as a result of chemo. Even natural ways may not works as if she never had chemo.
Even doctors face these difficult situation where if they go one way giving chemo/(any other treatment or intervention) for example the patient is going to die and if they don't give chemo also the patient is going to die. So it is a situation where one is between a rock and a hard place. When they cant give chemo anymore is usually when it is decided that the chemo will do more harm than good, that is will speed up death rather than prolong life.
Some patients come to that point earlier than the doctor tells them chemo does more harm than good and they make the choice not to go ahead with it. In your mother in law case may be that she wants no more intervention at all. She wants to fight this her way. While she hopes for cure may be only prolonging life on her terms, she may feel worth fighting her way than the medical way.
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