I'm guessing I'm not alone in finding myself dealing with disability discrimination in relation to work with RA, and facing the risk of losing a valued and much-loved career path.
I really need some help. My situation is a bit specific because when I developed RA I was in the process of a career change, to become a mental health practitioner. I was completing a training programme jointly provided by an NHS trust which provides clinical experience and a university, which runs and accredits the formal qualification. In my case it's the university that's mishandled my medical situation - where I'm classed as a student despite being employed by the health service. This limits my access to formal support (like a union), procedure (there's no tribunal) and advice, and means - as I understand it - the relevant legal area of practice is education law rather than employment law. From what I know so far (which is very little, to be honest), that is quite a specialist area.
I've exhausted all of the obvious approaches to addressing the situation - extensive attempts at informal resolution, internal complaints processes (the university has acknowledged discriminating against me which is a start and suggests I'd have a good case, but that was in a very limited way and has not resulted in any action being taken to address it), student union, insurance policies, law clinics, third sector organisations, EASS. Union representation isn't an option because the issue lies with the university as training provider. So the only remaining route I can think of is taking civil legal action, which is an absolute last report for me and a financial as well as practical strain.
Can anyone offer any advice, experiences or pointers, please? Have you needed to challenge disability discrimination through legal process? Could you recommend any education lawyers through personal experience or word of mouth? Can you enlighten me at all on the law in this area and how to navigate a process like this? Anything! I've never needed to do anything like this before, and although I've tried to inform myself it is hard to get my head round it all and most of the information and support you can access is generic, not tailored to your specific situation. I've no idea even how to assess and select an appropriate solicitor.
Any help or advice would be extremely welcome. Thank you.
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Is there anything specific that you can explain that is affecting you day to day now…or is it about your working future ?Have you asked the NHS trust you mentioned if other people have come up against similar problems?
It started as 'failure to make reasonable adjustments' when I was still really quite unwell, adjustments that I had verbally been told would be made by the relevant member of staff, and that were feasible and permissible within the training regulations. There is no reason I know why they weren't followed through - it's never been explained. But that started a fairly complicated cascade of events that had a seriously detrimental effect on my training process and health, and involved significant (and blatant) misrepresentation of key information by the staff involved. Medical documentation and university procedures for dealing with the same have been literally ignored. So the situation quickly became one of harassment as well as discrimination, which is unpleasant and, I would say, hostile. Formal processes have been used to close down rather than address the problems, the well-known 'closing of ranks' phenomenon. Some of the issues were recognised at the final stage of the internal complaints process though, which offers some hope, but not all of them - and nothing in any case has been done to address them. The staff responsible for the original problems have not even acknowledged the university's own conclusion that I've been discriminated against, so there is an issue of denial and intransigence as well. All of these problems need to be addressed before I can continue my training, and they have delayed completion of my training by two years and counting already, so there are significant ongoing professional and practical impacts of the situation for me.
I hope that answers your question and makes sense! It has become a very complicated situation because it's been going on for so long, so I find it quite hard to explain it succinctly.
Oh, I meant to answer the second part of your question too: yes there are others affected by the university's handling of disability round the training process, but generally people leave the training because of it, probably - understandably - because the formal processes are intimidating and exhausting to navigate (and ears are not really open to hearing about these kinds of problems, it seems). Not many people take the process as far as I have, but I love my job and don't want to lose it.
I have no idea about the discrimination laws as it never happened to me, my Local Authority was great and really I never had any real issues anyway. But due to another issue do have one suggestion. If you drive does your car insurance include free legal advice? If so then contact the insurer and ask for help. You must have the insurance for the year the problem first occurred. I used this for getting advice about a medically induced injury. It might not work for in your case, but it’s just a phone call to ask.
Hi, thanks so much for this suggestion! I don't have a car but did try my home insurance and because it's education rather than employment law it's not covered, sadly. I'm very glad to hear you never had to deal with this in your career.
I am guessing you have approached the NHS Trust that is involved? You are presumably salaried? Does that .trust pay you? If so it should be able to help…..as you are not getting the educational benefits you are entitled to. …that indirectly they are paying for
I have no experience of anything like this….& I may be in Cloud Cuckoo land, but if that is the case….it may have something to do with the University’ s failure to comply with disability regulations for students in general & your case in particular?
Thank you, I am a salaried employee of the Trust, and it does seem to me there would be a role for them to intervene, not least because they're essentially a partner to the University in delivering the training so have an interest in these problems being resolved! Unfortunately they've been reluctant to get involved so far because they have no control over what the university decides to do. I'd have thought the university had some sort of responsibility to the Trust to address any issues with handling training promptly, but there doesn't seem to be much communication between the two. I have tried, mainly because I think the Trust's 'voice' would carry much more weight than mine, but no luck yet. There definitely is a more general issue with disabled students not having their needs understood and met, but there's also a lack of robust external oversight which means problems tend to get brushed under the carpet. I don't want that to happen this time!
Thank you again for another good shout! I haven't actually approached the CAB with this yet, but did contact the local law centre (who I think they'd refer me on to if they deemed me eligible). There isn't a law centre where I live so the one that is supposed to be connected to my CAB is a bit further afield - and when I emailed they made it very clear that as a non-local my enquiry wasn't welcome! It quite put me off. But perhaps I could try via the CAB and see if I have any more luck that way.
I've had a similar issue but not quite the same recently as it was with my Employer. My Union was rubbish as all the good reps have left now or retired, so I fought it myself. I had some free legal advice from an Employment Law Barrister via a Law Centre who gave me the confidence to continue once he confirmed I had a good case, I won my case without going to a tribunal but there are still some finer details to be sorted so I am using ACAS mediation before considering next steps but it's been VERY stressful but I needed to speak out. I thought as I have worked for a Government Department for many years I would be looked after...how naive was I 😂😂 Good Luck to you. X
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. I'm so glad you had the fortitude to speak out and in the end won your case, that is fantastic. I've just been through my email correspondence and realised I have actually made an online enquiry to my local CAB and they advised that my situation is 'out of scope' for the local Law Centre. So no luck there. Honestly, it feels like all doors are closed on this one. I will keep trying though.
Hi, I think someone has already suggested the Scope Website for you already, but you can ask questions on there also, I used it when I first started my Grievance. Thank you, I've not fully accepted it yet and like I said I'm using ACAS for mediation as there is some things I still not happy with and I think they just upheld it to shut me up but will change nothing, I went to ACAS for advice and to get a case number as I was fully prepared and still am to take it all the way. Have you contacted ACAS ..they may be able to offer some advice such a complex and frustrating situation for you, like you I enjoy working and want to continue just so stressful when we come across these issues which sadly are all too common. I wish all the very best of luck and please let us know how you get on.
I will keep my fingers crossed that your current negotiations reach a more satisfactory conclusion so that you can start putting all of this behind you. It is so draining, isn't it. How long has it taken you to get to this stage? I think the problem I have is that the issue lies with the University where I have student status, I'm not an employee there, so ACAS can't help me. It is so frustrating, and feels so isolating. I'm very glad I posted here - it's the most support I've had in more than two years of dealing with this!
Hi there, I am really sorry to hear you're experiencing all of these problems. Please call the lovely ladies on NRAS helpline - they may be able to point you in the right direction for further constructive help with this matter. They have access to lots of helpful information:
0800 298 7650, Monday-Friday from 9.30am until 4.30pm
Sorry to hear you are having all these issues. It sounds like a nightmare. I had issues many years ago when my boss decided she'd had enough of me being ill and decided i should either be part-time or not at all! This was despite working for a welfare rights organisation that mainly dealt with disabled clients. I don't think she ever got the irony!! It was especially hard to get assistance because we were a well known local organisation with ties and connections to other voluntary agencies locally. Basically, everyone knew each other and were therefore very wary of getting involved.
Also, when doing a part time degree, right at the end, I had problems with a snooty lecturer who did not want me on his course as I'd confessed upfront I would have to miss a couple of lectures for medical related reasons.
You realise when you're in these situations how hard it actually is to find someone to turn to. It can feel like everyone collectively takes a step back and you are totally alone. You've probably tried this, but there should be some sort of disabled students adviser at the uni? If not, it could be worth trying to contact them, but don't hold your breath. When I contacted them about the disabled students' allowance, they were fairly useless. She had no idea it could be granted for physical disabilities as they "didn't really have any of them." Their clients were mostly autism type issues, so that's all they were aware of! I muddled through on my own. Ultimately the University's policy/awareness on disability was almost non-existent.
Also, have you looked at the Disability Rights UK website? It could be helpful. They have a section on getting advice, where it lists various agencies, and I think you can contact Disability Rights direct too.
Thank you so much for your reply Kags1068 , that is exactly what it's like, it's clear understand this situation from hard personal experience. Sorry you had to deal with this too. Quite similarly to your situation at the welfare rights organisation, my mental health practice programme at the university covers the Equality Act and working inclusively!!! You literally couldn't make it up.
As you say, there is no meaningful support at the university, I think it's a common problem. All buzzwords, no action. There is a disability team that set up 'learning support plans' with disabled students but they do not oversee their implementation and can't intervene, it appears, when they are not implemented properly. There is also a student advice team that I was informed explicitly don't deal with disability / discrimination issues because they don't have the training (and to be honest, it was difficult to get guidance on navigating the university's own procedures, which is their remit - in the end I had to give up because it was creating more workload and I just couldn't manage it all). And the student officers get all enthusiastic about doing something and "taking direct action" and then don't reply to your emails...... all to be expected to an extent I suppose, but too flaky for this situation.
Thanks for suggesting the Disability Rights UK website, that is a great resource and they actually have a helpline specifically for students in higher education, which is unusual to find. Unfortunately when I tried it they could only offer very generic advice, which isn't what I need at this stage of things. Did you ever get to the point of taking legal advice or action to address the problems you faced, or address it independently, or get yourself through it and out of the situation when possible? Thanks again for sharing your experience, it means a lot and I feel a bit less alone with it all.
Thank you for this, I did try Scope but they could only give very general advice and signposted me on to the Disability Rights UK student helpline, I guess because it's such a specific kind of situation. Honestly, it is a nightmare trying to find any service that deals with this!
A bit of a long shot but have you thought of contacting your local MP. They are there to help and advise and I must admit ours has (had) been pretty good at helping with these sort of problems
Thank you so much for this suggestion, I haven't tried this yet but was thinking about it - and I think your comment will push me to do it! I've never needed to contact an MP about anything before so wasn't sure if it would lie in their remit, but it is definitely worth a try.
Yes I think you're right, it has reached that point - and I really have tried everything else through communication with the university. Thank you for this.
I wish you luck , fortitude and much tenacity. You have some excellent advice here amongst the replies to your question. Do let us know how matters proceed. Keep well, look after your mental & physical wellbeing.
That's also very good advice, I've had to develop very firm boundaries while navigating this situation to protect my health and wellbeing as best I can. It was impossible when the situation first started to develop as I was still really quite unwell at the time and at an early stage of treatment, and I ended up on medical leave. After that I realised I needed to take conscious steps to look after myself as far as possible. It's always going to be difficult though, the workload in a situation like this is overwhelming, and my job and career are at stake if it doesn't get resolved. I will definitely keep you all updated, the responses on this post have been absolutely brilliant!
I’m not sure I understand what your issue is from what you’ve said. I assume you’ve tried ACAS? They have great helplines.
Civil legal action. It’s incredibly expensive and will drag on for years too so if you can avoid that I would. And you still may not get the result you want. A solicitor to attend a 30 minute hearing will be around £1500. Every letter around £800 plus fees surrounding that for reading documents, preparing them. Court costs a fortune so you need to be 100% sure you’ll win and it’s enough to cover the costs. The mental toll it takes is enormous.m I currently have my ex manager in a civil case from October 2022 and it’s still rumbling along endlessly. If you can avoid this I would.
The problem in a nutshell is a persistent pattern of discriminatory treatment lasting over two years, including failure to make reasonable adjustments, deliberate disregard of medical documentation and the university's own disability-related processes, undue withholding of key information from me and repeated misuse of formal processes that are supposed to be a forum for resolving issues of this nature. I tried, extensively, to avoid the need for any formal process to be used for months before it became unavoidable because the staff responsible took the denial approach. The university has (after a lot of work and process) admitted discrimination against me but in a vague and minimal way that means there has been no meaningful accountability - and nothing has been done to address this in practice. Nothing has changed as a result of that finding. The situation is one of harassment as well as discrimination, and I suspect also victimisation in view of what I've been told about the delays I experienced in these formal processes and some of the communications I've seen. It's prevented me from completing my qualification so I've been working as a qualified practitioner for two years without the pay or security that goes along with that, and it has affected my health and treatment process as well. It is a bad situation.
I appreciate the reality check about taking civl legal action, thank you. It is good to be aware because I've never been through anything like this before and don't really know how to approach it or what to expect. Sorry to hear that you're needing to deal with it too. I have honestly tried every possible way of addressing this situation - with more grace than the university deserve, frankly! - but I am running out of ideas and time. My worry, from a cynical perspective, is that they are prevaricating until time runs out for me to complete my qualification (or take legal action, maybe), because that would close those options to me. I don't want to lose my career because of this - I love my job, and am good at it - but it's a qualification-entry career so unless this situation gets resolved so that I can finish it, that is what I fear will happen.
I'm really interested in how the Equality Act can protect you in such a situation.
There must be a contract between the University provider of education and who ever is paying for the education. The implied Terms within that contract includes complying with the Equality Act. So a breach of these implied terms has occurred.
So if the NHS is contracting with the University, they would need to seek redress, on your behalf. It sounds like your contract is directly with the NHS, and part of that legal agreement is to provide you with effective educational aspects. So, if this is the case, you will be covered by the Employment Tribunal, as it's part of the employer's package of benefits paid to you as "consideration".
It really makes no odds if the NHS communicate constructively with the University or not, they are obligated to honour their contractual obligations to you. They choose to do this through a third party - that's their decision. They will have a legal team who will be fully aware of the Trust's legal obligations, so that's probably why they don't want to listen to you. File a complaint to the Trust and see what happens. If they become more defensive, it's a strong sign that they know they're in the wrong!
So, if it turns out you are covered by your contract of employment, you'll need to submit a claim quickly, as there are strict time limits.
If you are contracted directly with the university, it'll be down you you to seek redress through the courts. Depending on how much compensation you are looking at claiming, you could try the Small Claims Court, which might be much simpler and cheaper. Does the Sale of Goods and Services Act cover university education?
As for setting out your specific issues against each section of the Equality Act, I found reviewing old Employment Tribunal decisions really useful, as they set out the issues against the law for each case, before going into what happened in the tribunal. These are published on line on a .gov site, and you can filter according to the causes of discrimination. It's time consuming, but useful.
Thank you, this is really interesting, and helpful. It has been difficult so far to establish exactly what the relationship is between the NHS Trust and the university with regards to the training - I have asked but responses are typically vague and uninformative. I get the impression the people I've asked don't actually know. Their position has essentially been that they have no remit or control as regards the university's actions, so it's not their responsibility. I will re-read my contract of employment but I'm pretty sure it doesn't cover (or mention) the academic component of the training at all.
I agree with you that there must be more to it than that but I don't have any way to find out, that I can think of. I'm also extremely reluctant to make a complaint to the Trust about the Trust, because I think that would jeopardise my job and I am already in a very vulnerable position. Although they haven't been perfect by any means, my employer has handled my medical situation much better than the university and I really enjoy working there. I'm more hoping that they will at this point use whatever influence they have to help move this situation forward in a productive way. Maybe that's naive.
The training is funded by NHS England and I informed them of the situation back in March. What I was told is that they don't intervene to resolve individual complaints (but should take on board reports of situations like this at a training provider). Their response has been a concern to be honest - I was offered mediation support to engage in a dialogue about the issues with the university, which I gladly accepted, but the university representative didn't meaningfully engage and time was running out so I discontinued that dialogue after a few months. During that dialogue I did not see any active intervention to move the situation forward from the NHSE staff mediating, though do not know what (if anything) went on behind the scenes. They have not been responsive to recent emails and have not provided me with access to the formal complaints process (the systems recently changed and it's not published online) which has also given me a poor impression. I could (and might) submit a formal complaint to their general contact address anyway, but the problem is one of workload and my own capacity - the workload is enormous as it is.
Thanks again for a really helpful response, it's really made me think. I will reflect more on this and see what information I can find. I don't know what to do if I can't find out more about what exactly the contract, explicit or implied, between NHSE, the Trust and the university is, though, and that has not been forthcoming from any angle so far. Transparency has not been a feature of this situation...
I would have thought that as there is presumably a contract between the NHS and the uni to provide the training that it should be your employer who deals with the uni and challenges them about your treatment.
I don’t think universities are particularly clued up about disability despite all their talk! I can’t comment from a students viewpoint but I work for a university and have had to have several meetings with HR due to absences caused by the RA meds suppressing my immune system leading to me having several short absences when I have picked up infections. Despite me explaining this and the OH doctor writing a very good report on the nature of immune suppressing drugs they don’t seem willing or able to take this into account! If I was younger I would definitely have challenged this but I’m about to turn 66 so have decided to retire soon instead!
Thank you so much, aliplayspiano , I agree, some sort of contractual arrangement must exist between the two but so far I haven't been able to find out what it is, despite asking. It makes it very difficult to navigate a situation like this without that kind of clarity.
And totally agree with you about a more general problem with understanding and managing disability appropriately in higher education! This affects staff as much as students, I know, and I'm sorry you've had similar experiences. I was in research before making this career change (though not always university-based), so have some familiarity with the culture there can be around matters like this. This may be just my perception because of the position I'm in now, but I feel more vulnerable as a student because there are fewer meaningful sources and routes to accessing support. The student unions don't have the training or awareness to support in the way a trade union might, and education law seems to be more specialised and harder to get advice about.
I can totally understand why you decided to step away from needing to deal with these kinds of issues, it is exhausting. And there doesn't appear to be any real accountability, as far as I can tell.
this may sound daft but what about going to ofsted? Well at least the equivalent anyway which is the quality assurance agency for higher education.
Also I’m intrigued if you don’t mind? I’ve always wanted to do that course and training- did you have to do a degree psychology first?
I haven’t experienced the same as you. But I have recently left a job I love (in education) because I was very unwell and jumped because I was being pushed
Not daft at all, I'm very grateful for the suggestion! I don't think students can make a complaint to the QAA but you have reminded me that I could submit a 'notification' to the Office for Students who regulate HE in England. They can't intervene in individual cases which is why I haven't prioritised it before now - I'm already finding the workload dealing with this situation pretty overwhelming - but they can investigate if they have concerns the problem is systemic in nature (I suspect it is). It might be a way to do what I can to contribute to meaningful reflection at the university and longer-term change.
OkiHave you looked at the Scope website? Lots of info on there about disability and uni. Also ask your personal tutor, if you have one and can talk to them openly, or someone at uni for the complaints procedure. It may also be in your student handbook. Do you have a 'director of undergraduate studies' in you uni department? I worked for a uni for 10 years and disability was one of my responsibilities. I think what you are going through is dreadful! This should not happen! Failing that as someone else has said contact the highest of the high at the uni and tell them exactly what you have explained here. The staff are just not doing their jobs.
I am still in contact with people at the uni I worked at and can ask their advice if you want me to? I would guess all universities have the same rulings on students with disabilities.
Another title was 'departmental Senior Tutor' he dealt with disabled students at department level too. Then there was the University Senior Tutor who was the top person for disabled students and students who had major problems during the course of their studies.
One tip, always try to confirm verbal conversations in writing, either by letter or email and get a response on writing too. If they don't reply you have the proof of you trying to get answers but the staff have not responded as they should.
Thank you so much for your suggestions and advice!
I have tried Scope, and exhausted all routes at the university that I know of, unfortunately. I don't have a personal tutor because of the nature of my course but my academic tutor is (to an extent) involved in the problems I've encountered so not someone I could approach for help. I'm at the stage of trying to engage with very senior members of university staff who might be able to take an oversight of the whole situation and how it's been handled and look at a constructive path forward, but so far nothing concrete has come out of those attempts
To be honest, I think the thing is that no-one wants to know and no-one wants to admit that staff on a programme that includes training on the Equality Act and 'inclusive practice' are discriminating against disabled students because that's a really bad look. I suspect that's why the complaints processes have been misused to try to shut the complaints down or at best minimise them, which leaves me with few (if any) options. It's truly awful.
If you wouldn't mind asking your former colleagues for any tips of advice they could suggest in a situation like this, I would be SO grateful, thank you!!! I'm willing to be pragmatic but what has happened to me does need to be recognised and meaningful steps taken to address it.
And thank you for that tip about emailing after meetings and keeping things in writing - absolutely. I've learned that one the hard way!
Thank you! The OfS can't intervene in individual cases unfortunately, but they can investigate if they have concerns the problem might be systemic, so it might be a way to help with the bigger picture.
Thank you so much for this pointer! Sadly because the issue lies with a university where I have student status rather than my employer, ACAS can't help me.
Hi there, if you have a law centre near you they will take a valid case which you say is accepted in your case. I used them many years ago in the early days of the DDA . But it has changed vastly from 2010 ? equality regulations . It can be taken to an independent tribunal to determine your position but all takes time. It sounds quite a difficult case as two employers seem involved or maybe I have miss construed your post. In respect of law I would get in touch with the law society first in respect of help with costs. There is a thing called community law cases if you might win. Suffice to say do not just go for a solicitor find out your right on legal help with cost first. Every best wish and I did win my case but it was settled out of court as my employer was a past offender of the ACT. Good Luck
Hi katieoxo60 , thank you so much for this reply, this is exactly the area I'm trying to work out around accessing legal advice and support, and it is a minefield! I'm really happy to hear you won your case, that gives hope to all of us in this situation.
Sadly my case is 'out of scope' for my local Law Centre, so they can't help me and neither can the Law Clinics I could in theory access for free legal advice because a) they're mainly based in universities and are inactive over summer and b) locally they have connections with the university in question.
My situation is also complicated by the fact that although I'm employed by the NHS, the issues I'm trying to address lie with the university providing the formal training, at which I have student status - it means the area of law is education rather than employment and there seems to be much less support with that.
I haven't heard of 'community law cases' before, is there a link to any information about that you could possible post by any chance please? Just did a quick search but didn't manage to find anything. I'm open to all possible routes forward with this!
You can get Civil legal advice on 03453454345. Open 9am to 8pm weekdays, 9am to 12.30 pm on Saturdays . They deal with discrimination. Community cases are usually done in your own area by varied charieties. Cab usually have details of most local community projects or local council might be able to help. I don't have much involvement in these things these days, so there may no longer be such an option. Most solicitors have free advice first sessions so might be more aware of how to take your case forward and at least cost.Have to go have a hospital appointment today so have to be ready for transport.
Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it. Unfortunately my local CAB doesn't have links to legal support for this kind of situation, they've told me it is 'out of scope'. It's proving really hard to find any help with this even though it's a discrimination case.
A huge thank you to everyone who's replied so far - I'm blown away by the amount of support and advice you've given! I'm out and about at the moment so can't reply to everyone properly yet but will do later on 🌻
Have you tried ACAS? They were really good with advice when I had a similar situation working for a Police Force and Training I'd had, and an Inspector that was told to get rid of disabled staff. The Union were useless, and so was legal advice from insurance. Surely as an NHS employee they have a duty of care to ensure your course with the University was adapted accordingly? If the University admit there were failings with the Training Provider then its up to them to assist you with sorting this out as they employ the Training Provider? They can't just dump it in your lap and hope it goes away or you leave? Look for free Legal advice with Citizens advice. Beware of scams too! The University also have a duty of care under the Disability Discrimination act to ensure Disabled Students are catered for. Don't give up, fight this, this country is not as Disability friendly as they'd have us believe! I've encountered it many times in my working life and left everytime. Oh how I have wished I'd fought each one. I'd be a rich woman by now😉
I totally agree, I would have thought the NHS Trust as my employer and a partner in the training programme would have a role in preventing the situation from developing as it has, but information on how the two institutions are connected has been sparse, to say the least. I have asked for support to address this with the University because the Trust's 'voice' would be much louder than mine, but none forthcoming so far.
It sound like you had a pretty awful situation to deal with yourself, sorry to hear about that. It's good that ACAS was able to support when other avenues failed. In my case because it's the university where I'm trying to address discrimination and I'm classed as a student there, ACAS couldn't help I don't think - it seems to be classed as education law rather than employment, even though it does affect my job too.
It's so confusing, and seems to be a specialist area so I really need specific advice but can't find anywhere that's able to provide advice and support for my specific situation. That's why I'm having to look at seeking legal advice privately - it's not remotely feasible financially but there just don't seem to be any other agencies that can do this. I definitely don't want to give up fighting what's happening, for the sake of my own career and also other students affected by this!
It almost seems from what you say, that there's a lack of help on purpose? Is it because they know you have a clear case of discrimination and hope that it can be swept under the carpet? ACAS maybe be able to point you in the right direction. I know Citizens Advice have various advisors for law, as I've used them myself in the past. These people will continue to do what they are doing unless you face them head on. Have you written to the University, NHS heads of Department stating what has happened and that due to a lack of response and no forthcoming information and resolution of the matter you are now seeking legal advice? If not send the letters recorded delivery and you'll probably find someone will take notice and will further your case or try to resolve. You'll have recorded officially then that you are asking finally for a result and that you are not happy with the lack of response. Set out your stall in the letters and you may not have to go further. I do know the NHS close ranks from personal experience, but if the University has to take the blame you have your result🤷🏻😊
I don't know what the motive might be, it could be that, but I also think colleagues in the Trust are probably belatedly realising that things really shouldn't have been allowed to persist as they have so are trying to stay as far out of it as possible. I could be wrong. There definitely don't seem to be the kinds of lines of communication you'd expect between partner organisations to ensure issues like this don't develop or at least, get addressed in a timely way.
What you're saying definitely makes me think I need to ask for more from my employer, though. Without knowing what their responsibilities actually are I don't know how exactly to proceed but I think I will ask to meet with HR (and possibly the Trust's legal team) to find out what they can do to help move this situation towards a satisfactory resolution. Surely the fact that I'm an employee experiencing discrimination in my role as a trainee must mean there's something they can (or should) be doing?
Does that sound reasonable, do you think? Perhaps I could ask ACAS about the situation from that perspective, but I just think the fact that the discrimination I'm trying to get addressed occurred at the university where I'm classed as a student will mean they can't advise on those key issues. But I don't honestly know. The more I think about it, the more confused I feel!
Your employer has a duty of care to you to ensure any training meets the needs of the employee. So for instance if I as a disabled person was asked to go on a full First Aid Course to be an appointed First Aider, and the course was 50 miles away, the employer booked and paid for it without asking if I was okay to attend, anything they need to help me attend etc then they are at fault when I say im not able bodied enough to do the training or able to drive that distance in one go. So the course you asked to do to further your career should of been a discussion with you and HR, who would in turn liaise with University to discuss your needs and if the course is suitable, is the correct course and how you could prepare for it. I've worked in HR and have an Austic daughter who had a similar situation when deciding to go onto teaching. The University knew she would need extra time & help to complete the course, offered the assistance, but when she attended they tried to circumnavigate the assistance, then said they didn't think she would complete the yrs course! This was after gaining a degree & a Masters in her previously chosen course at another University! So the Disability Discrimination act came into force and the 2nd University quickly rallied extra training for her and she passed the course after some prepared statements I gave her to read in the meetings as she was so overwhelmed by basically them saying, Autistic? You don't fit our bill! She was given the runaround and nearly gave up. Large organisations are no better clued up on the DDA as you might think. Write down what's happened chronologically, then write a list of points you felt were wrong for your needs and ask for a meeting with HR, but write another list of what points you want action on. If you prepare it won't be scary, just empowering to know that you have covered all bases, and expect answers and a resolution. Let me know how you get on!
Are you still with the same employer as a couple of years ago when you experienced some issues or is it a new employer and your now seconded?
Did you have a chance to talk through your needs when meeting the Uni at the outset of the course ?
Either way why not speak to the Office of the Independent Adjudicator- it’s free. Regardless of anything you are currently a student at a place of education and that’s what needs sorting.
Thank you so much for responding. I've been with the same employer since 2020, which is when my training started. I didn't have rheumatoid arthritis then - it developed in 2021 - but declared it openly from the outset and did all the things you're supposed to do like discussing with the student disability team who put together a plan of support, and providing medical documentation to evidence treatment and symptoms etc.
The team in my academic department should have followed that plan and worked with me to adjust things when I experienced complications, but they didn't. And the university has simply ignored medical documentation on a number of occasions. The problems really aren't subtle or hard to spot, there is clear evidence, but there's been no meaningful accountability to this point. It's one of those situations where it's hard to believe it's really happening - until it happens to you.
The OIA is the usual route for escalating complaints about a university like you say, but they can't make findings about disability discrimination so wouldn't be able to help with this situation unfortunately. And, they only review the procedures the university followed, not the underlying issues. time is running out for me to complete my qualification, so I need the underlying issues to be addressed (and fast!). The only possible route I'm aware of is taking legal action. It's not remotely feasible financially, but I don't know what else to do - I don't want to lose my career because of this but that's a very real risk.
Is it worthwhile trying to persevere until you get your qualification then get into that.
I was in a similar position a few years ago and eventually I realised that it was all too big for me so I dropped out and stopped working. It’s unbelievably difficult.
I'm so sorry to hear you've been through something like this too, it's awful - and exactly the kind of situation the Equality Act is supposed to protect against. The worst thing is that by definition almost you have to go through the processes of challenging what's happening when at a particularly low ebb, on top of your job and everything else.
It is hard to know what to do. There are strict legal time limits for taking civil action which mean it couldn't be postponed until after the qualification has been completed, but my qualification won't get completed if the university doesn't address what's been happening. So it kind of feels like there isn't a choice. That said, I've had a few reality checks on this thread about the horrors of the legal route (which I do appreciate, I don't know anything about it), even if I could afford it. It's a bind. I suppose this is how discrimination happens and keeps happening, isn't it.
I would go back to your Home Insurance legal cover, I know you’ve indicated that they say the issue ‘isnt covered’ under your policy however from experience I’m aware its not always black and white particularly in an issue as complex as yours. If they haven’t put the reasons it’s not covered in writing ask them to do so. Once you have it in writing you could ask an independent legal person their opinion and to also see whether your issue might fall under another category within your legal insurance policy. If the ‘second opinion’ indicates it should be covered, you could discuss this with the Home Insurance legal cover and ultimately as a last resort take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service if necessary, appropriate.
If you live in the UK there’s an organisation the Equality Human Rights Commission EHRC, here's the link to their website equalityhumanrights.com/ it might be worth contacting them.
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Treated like a second class citizen.
Party going on in my body!
research into cooking with arthritis
Human rights infringement.
