Refused PIP: I applied for Personal Independence... - NRAS

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Refused PIP

Beanyynwa profile image
35 Replies

I applied for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) but have been turned down despite having rheumatoid arthritis, long covid and anxiety. This decision is particularly disappointing as when I first applied for it approximately 5 years ago I was awarded 8 points which was 2 points short of being awarded the standard rate. I accepted the decision. 

Despite the fact that I am experiencing more flare ups, joint and muscle pains, fatigue, breathlessness, difficulties standing and walking for long periods, cognitive issues and anxiety - I have been awarded 0 points. According to the decision maker the assessor who undertook the telephone assessment found me not to anxious, incoherent and not appearing to lack in concentration or appear confused!!!! I have brain fog not a permanent cognitive impairment or learning needs. 

I am going to appeal the decision and will request letters of support from the Post Covid Recovery Team and my GP. I have one from my rheumatology consultant. 

35 Replies
Deeb1764 profile image
Deeb1764

Definitely Appeal and maybe a diary for a week to show issues per day. Can be monotonous but maybe helps explain the day to day life

Neonkittie17 profile image
Neonkittie17 in reply to Deeb1764

Great idea re the diary. x

Fuzzy profile image
Fuzzy

Hi Beanyynwa

It sounds like you have very good grounds for appeal. Very frustrating for you.

Here are some phrases which may help either for a form or over the phone. I hope that does not sound patronising, I'm a retired teacher and like a handy phrase!

Sometimes I can:

...go for a short walk/cook/do some housework/shower...

However on many occasions I am unable/have to delay/have to avoid...

I am often:

exhausted/need to rest/need to pace things/ have to cancel/ am left exhausted by/need help with.../canot even attempt to ...

Activities which I can no longer ever attempt are...

I need regular rest/periods of recovery etc

***

Yes a symptoms diary is useful too.

I got the basic daily rate for joint pain, fatigue, hearing loss, inner ear balance disorder and anxiety. I didn't get mobility component as I said I often enjoy a walk along the canal! Oops.

I did say at the end of the phone-call that it is my style to sound cheerful but that my health had a severe impact on my quality of life. Perhaps the person assessing you was not very well experienced...

My stress levels went down when pip was approved. It is a good help.

I totally empathise re fatigue and brain fog. It is awful and sometimes I can't think straight.

Hope you get it sorted quickly. I'm pretty sure you'll get it on appeal when you send your medical reports over. Good luck xx

Beanyynwa profile image
Beanyynwa in reply to Fuzzy

Thank you very much Fuzzy.

Jacko37 profile image
Jacko37

You really do need to appeal ASAP. I think that they refuse more or less everyone. I had zero points when I fist applied, put my appeal in and was then awarded the enhanced rate. I don't have rheumatoid but I know many people who have and I have seen how tough things can be, good luck!

Beanyynwa profile image
Beanyynwa in reply to Jacko37

Thanks Jacko37.

Ajay575 profile image
Ajay575

Sorry to hear it is terrible sometimes the decisions Try get some more correspondence as you said

The decision maker dwp and assesors are as bad as each other

You need 8 points to get an award

If not done so ask for a copy of the assessment report (medical )not just the summary from the decision maker

There may be more

Inaccuracies or lies or both

In future for anxiety only use the words Phylogical distress

The activities are also for majority of time not sure if you used that tool on forms

With the activities

For the majority of time days

If you cannot do an activity only once that day

That means you cannot do for that day and counts for the majority for that day

Also in the activities if you say for an exsample

On a question say

B applys 20 %

C 18 %

D 16 %

Thats 54 %

For that qustion and b would apply for the points for majority of times at just 20 % not over 50 %

this where you need an good adviser to help you if you can

if not take your time

Not sure about your anxiety how bad and wot type

If people cannot leave house 4 days a week

That means you cannot leave house and take any journy 10 points mobility because of

Phylogical distress for anxiety

You should get mobility award

Lots also get points for prompting with anxiety

Your extra support you may try to get

Try get them to put a distance down for you wot applys

For mobility physical

Its 20 metres high rate

Its 50 metres standard rate

You can also add mental health points to gether for the mobility award in the mobility activities

If you could try maybe get

wellfair rights free advice and help

If in your area if available their good and help at appeals in person unlike cab

Or for a fee

Fightback4justice

are very good as well they have meetings with

gov. dwp .assesors etc and court case rulings and know the wordings they look for etc and high success rate

Beanyynwa profile image
Beanyynwa in reply to Ajay575

Thank you Ajay575.

Beanyynwa profile image
Beanyynwa

Thank you to everyone who replied. Your very useful advice is much appreciated and will hopefully help with my appeal.

BoneyC profile image
BoneyC

Have a look on the Benefits and Work website.

madme1 profile image
madme1

Are you appealing or are they doing what they call a Mandatory Reconsideration? Not that it really matters, but either way I would get in touch with Welfare Rights. They really supported me with an individual case worker, who helped me complete the form using my own answers and replies, but put in a way that flows more favourably towards a positive response. Also rather than just you as one voice you have the backing of two large organisations behind you, ie the NHS proof and the Welfare Rights organisation.

PSAWarrior28 profile image
PSAWarrior28

If you have anyone who helps you daily, they can also write a letter explaining how they support you.

Ravey profile image
Ravey

Good morning Beanyynwa..so sorry to hear this.. I think madme1 has some good advice for you there.I also was refused pip..I have osteo and rheumatoid arthritis fibromyalgia and also respiratory problems with copd asthma and emphysema..anxiety depression..nothing wrong with me either apparently.. I filled all my own forms in ..collected enormous amounts of "evidence "from doctors..consultant..breathing clinic..incidently these are all extremely busy individuals and I felt guilty burdening them with my requests .I had been shielding all through lockdown..seperated..moved ..had all of these ailments diagnosed so was severely damaged depressed and anxious...made worse by the constant pressure to justify the reasoning behind your claim..it really is a stressful process. I received 4 points after a face to face assessment. The assessor decided I had no issues ..no breathing problems..was diagnosed with pneumonia the next day. .no mobility issues..I'm looking at a hip transplant..and have trouble weight bearing as have arthritis in both feet and ankles as well. I was disappointed and really distressed by the whole process. It takes months to gather everything together only to be left feeling like a fraud and a liar.one of the worst experiences I've had in an interview situation. I was advised to record the appointment but I didn't..massive mistake..I actually cried in there at one point not something i do very often. A Vile woman ..no people skills...I did ask for a reconsideration my family encouraged me to do that..I did it over the phone there and then ..I was awarded 8 points this time so I got standard rate mobility..I was encouraged to appeal but I couldn't go through with it personally. It's true you do need someone behind you ..you have nothing to lose now go for it ..I wish you lots of luck with it and with all your ailments 😘stay strong.

katieoxo60 profile image
katieoxo60 in reply to Ravey

This is the real picture of how disabled are really treated , thank you for a vivid post of how it really feels . I recall having to walk to two tribunals , one to assess my ability as I call it and one to sack me as unable to do the job employed for. I even had a fall on the way . Many years past now , but they still keep saying I have nothing wrong , where are these people trained perhaps they would like to walk in our shoes for six months or so. Best wishes

cyberbarn profile image
cyberbarn

I would like to second Benefits and Work benefitsandwork.co.uk

I thought I knew how to fill out forms when I first did it for my son but we were turned down. I then get the CAB to help and noticed that they used the B&W guides so I joined so that I could have access to the guides and forum and it was a life saver!

The guides take you through step by step not just about the initial application but also for the Mandatory Reconsideration and any appeal you might want to do.

I have no link to B&W I am just a happy customer.

Good luck, I hope you are successful.

matazz profile image
matazz

Hi beanyynwaJust one thing that really helps when you are next assessed ask for it to be recorded I'm not sure why but everyone I know that has has a recored assessment has been awarded pip maybe it's because they know someone els can listen to it and give a second opinion where if its just you and them they can say what the hell they like ,I have a cd as they send this to you so you have a record of the full assessment too I was turned down a couple of years ago then I was told this I have rheumatoid so re applied during lockdown and was awarded it x

Good luck it's worth a try .

Regards 🙂

madme1 profile image
madme1 in reply to matazz

Do they record it or are you allowed to matazz if forget now.

matazz profile image
matazz in reply to madme1

You have to ask for a recorded assessment they recorded it for me and then send you a cd .

Mall profile image
Mall

The benefits and work organisation is well worth paying an annual subscription (under £20) for access to there very thorough guidance on applying for and appealing pip decisions. There is also a lot of free guidance on their website. Please check out their web site.

Juliesb profile image
Juliesb

I also got refused because I didn't appear to be depressed. I have been brought up to not moan about things and always appear to be happy and also worked in customer service most of my adult life so even when in severe pain I put on a jolly front but according to assessors that means I don't qualify. Its so unfair. Good luck with your appeal. Xx

Flinda profile image
Flinda

Hi Beanyynwa, Like you I have RA, long covid and anxiety and terrible fatigue. I hardly ever go out, I socialise on line, I shop on line and spend most of my day on line! Covid has forced me into this life style.

I just can't face all the effort n stress that is required to apply for PIP, but I desperately need household/repairs help, but can't afford any and I can't bear the thought of people coming into my house.

I hate giving up on not being able to do things anymore, and that just increases my anxiety, so I'm reluctant to ask for help - I have no wish to be a burden to anybody.

So my house is a mess but I'd rather have a messy house and peace n quiet than the stresses of the PIP process.

The thought of DWP telling me that I'm lying would be the last straw, so why would I allow them to do this to me, by submitting an application?

What's more, I don't drive since covid and don't have the confidence to drive now my car sits on the drive - redundant). I don't travel on buses because people sit up close without masks. I can walk a mile or so, slowly, but need rests as my heart rate goes through the roof and I sweat like crazy.

So getting anywhere means catching the train. If the destination is not close to a train station, I can't get there anymore, so don't.

So life is difficult at the moment. I definitely couldn't cope with it being more difficult ie PIP.

So, I don't apply - to protect my well-being, which to me is far more important than my house.

Good luck with the process, to anyone who decides to apply.

You're much braver than me.

And make time to look after your mental health along the way, as DWP will try their best to crush you, so you give in and they "win".

I'm sure there are plenty of people like me.

And I totally get why PIP is not an option for them.

People in our position need help, not abuse.

Ravey profile image
Ravey in reply to Flinda

Hello lovely..sending you a big hug..lots of things you have said resonate with me and plenty of others I'm sure..challenging isn't..least we know there's an army of us shuffling around 😘stay strong 💪xx

Flinda profile image
Flinda in reply to Ravey

That's lovely, thank you for the post.

Ajay575 profile image
Ajay575

Hi not sure if thats old points system The pip is based on care element which is

10 questions activities

You add all the points up

You need in total for care allowance

8 points in total for standard rate

12 points in total for enhanced rate

The

Mobility is straight forward only 2 questions

1 for physical

1 for mental health

You can add these points together as well like the care

But seperate from the care

Like the care

For mobility

You need

8 points for standart rate

12 points for enhanced rate

There is a free pip self test from benefits and work and you see all the questions and points awarded

DelicateInput profile image
DelicateInput in reply to Ajay575

Thanks, I'll delete it as it might confuse.

Ravey profile image
Ravey in reply to Ajay575

Sounds so simple doesn't it ..i filled out the online thing and on there I got points for standard living and mobility..very different story in real life..I feel they have the final say on the subject regardless of your xrays scans and medical evidence produced by qualified professionals..I get that this is not always the case for every applicant but I had heard that when it fails it does so catastrophically...its more like a lottery..who you get on the day kind of thing .people don't put themselves through this for something to do ..there's enough managing ailments and negotiating ways to get about and fend for yourself on a daily basis without being subjected to the kind of hostility I was..I felt like a naughty child who had been in front of the head mistress once too often .

Ajay575 profile image
Ajay575 in reply to Ravey

Yeh too right It is stressfull as well

Part of issue is also

The dwp decision maker

They tend to just go on recommendations of assessors at end of report

Without looking at scans exrays reports etc

Ive heard few like yourself done online and got an award

Jackie1947 profile image
Jackie1947

Yes do and better luck next time!

Happy5 profile image
Happy5

Sorry to hear this go for appeal, did anyone help you fill in the form?We had a lady from carers group in community centre help us originally , years back.

Not sure if arthritis groups, Citizen Advice, Carer groups locally to you can help?

Mozart150 profile image
Mozart150

Hi good advice in replies. Also call MInd -they are very helpful. Good luck. Don’t give up xxxx

Sheila_G profile image
Sheila_G

Good luck with your appeal.

Bluegolf1975 profile image
Bluegolf1975

Hi

I hope this helps I had a similar situation when I applied for PIP and was advised to resubmit for mandatory reconsideration which is the first step after initial refusal. Then if that’s refused ask for appeal. You appear to have good grounds for a appeal and I wish you luck. I have heard a lot of people get declined on first application and I understand how frustrating the process is. Good luck

katieoxo60 profile image
katieoxo60

Please appeal , although its arduos keep a diary of your difficulties. Speaking from others experience of post covid / long covid they seem to think these after effects are not true. Many older people are experiencing dementia type symptoms but they of course would not be claiming PIP , so do try to get a report from post covid recovery team. Sounds like the phone caller was only assessing your anxiety level, many people get raised anxiety when on the phone to a total stranger assessing their health situation. The advice given here from other members is good, keep a diary and emphsise your difficulties as I was told they do not need to know what you can do its about what you cannot and the stress it causes you trying to be able . Even simple things like not being able to walk like others, breathlessness as you say, joint and muscle pain that does not go away and impedes your ability to carry out tasks, tiredness from the extra effort needed. Thats just a few things. Most of us have better days but we do have incurable disease , sorry you have to go through this I understand having been that way myself . A tip if you have to attend an appeal court use a wheelchair, they take more note of what they see than what is written. Take Care, 0 points is a downright insult., involve your MP if necessary , every best wish for a good outcome. You are entitled to a reveiw of the original officers decision on this occassion.

CripLady profile image
CripLady

Focus on your restrictions rather than your illnesses/ conditions. Give real world examples. As a few have said, join Benefits & Work.

Chockyuk profile image
Chockyuk

I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this, just terrible. But from what I’ve heard, people have more chance of winning the Lottery than be awarded PIP. A friend of mine had a severe stroke, could hardly speak let alone walk, but was refused PIP. He did appeal and was helped in doing this by his sister who is a nurse. He was finally awarded the standard rate. It’s dreadful what people have to go through. 😔

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