Hi. I suffer with severe RA. Last week i contacted PIP to advise a change in circumstances. My hip is broken and my surgeon has confirmed there is nothing else he can do. ( ive had it replaced 3 times first time 1976) At present im on the high rate on the living side but dont get anything for mobility because before, when i had my assesment i could get 50 yards to a bus stop but they dont consider you have to get back!! I now find it very difficult just to get round the home. After waiting ages on the phone i explained the situation and she said 'before i send the form out, you do realise if you qualify you could be worse off" im interested to know if anyone else has had a reduction when their health has got worse?
Dreaded PIP - possible reduction for worse health! - NRAS
Dreaded PIP - possible reduction for worse health!
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Afcbsupporter
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30 Replies
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Probably a standard phrase they are told to use x good luck with the application xx
Read Work and Benefits website on informing DWP ( PIP) change in circumstances, please check with them first .
I couldnt see anything about getting less when things get worse! Ive spoken to them and they are sending another form to complete.
It is true that you could be re-assessed as not needing the level of support that you have already. This is always a risk given the stupidity of the system which is geared towards reductions in benefits.
But your grounds for re-assessment are real and you should get a mobility contribution without any problems from the evidence that you have given to us.
If there is any other decision then you should immediately appeal.
Thanks.
Thankyou
Try asking your GP for a supporting letter stating your change of circumstances. That your mobility has decreased due to a fractured hip and so on. This shouldn't be about luck but rather true facts to which you should be entitled to mobility component.
Thanks. I will contact him. I only thought of applying since having to pay for taxis , food deliveries a gardener etc.
And that's what the mobility payment is for so it should be straightforward but in the knowledge of the ackwardness of the DWP, I would definitely ask for a GP letter and attach it to the form you return to them. Make sure you tell your GP to state it's a change of circumstances in your medical mobility and not a new claim. Always think one step ahead to avoid potential problems as the DWP will gladly give you problems!
Thanks very much
Thanks
I think this is true because it's coming down on one side but up on the other. Therefore you're asking not for a Change of Circs. really although you might see it as one but to qualify for Mobility this may not be as much as the living element already awarded which could be withdrawn. They may not be the same amount so yes you could well end up worse off.
I'm not insured now as retired to give you advice so would suggest before you take the advice of people who don't work in the DWP or Benefits Agency or S.S. that you contact your nearest CAB or Civil Advice Centre.. So be careful its complex issues and no one can advise you without knowing your personal circumstances.
As for asking the GP yes by all means but not sure what they can do as its clear to me its not a question of qualifying but that the element awarded for mobility might be offset by a loss in living allowance as you might not get both. I don't know that but it is my suspicion that that is what is being alluded too.
Thanks very much for the info. From your reply i can see what they are saying so as you say it will be sensible to contact CAB first. Thanks for that ....
Put simply if you on the higher rate of living then go to lower you'll loose £ 29 to gain £23. BE CAREFUL only someone who can look at your claim can work this out. Its not a one size fits all scenario and a broken hip mends. Please do ask CAB if your unsure the Dir Gov website is good but I think that the Benefits Agency have given you a good warning. It's worth looking into before actually doing anything you'll later regret.
Don't take any notice of what they said, it was an off the cuff comment, trying to put you off. As others have suggested, Benefits & Work website have all the info you need. Good luck.
Don't take the questions too literally. That's a mistake people sometimes make. Read carefully all of the guidance. Eg, the question regarding how far you can walk. You might be able to manage a distance that might disqualify you from the mobility part of the benefit. But, you wouldn't be disqualified if you couldn't walk to an acceptable standard. Acceptable standard means without pain and in a reasonable time. Therefore, if walking is painful and slow you should meet the requirement for saying that you cannot walk any distance. Also, you need to be able to repeat activities. Therefore, if you can walk a particular distance, but then cannot repeat it sometime later, then that is relevant. Our symptoms vary day to day and hour by hour. PIP does consider this. To qualify for pip we need to be unable to perform a task (to an acceptable standard which means without pain and in a reasonable time) for over 50% of the time. So take walking. You might be able to walk ok for some of the time, but if you can't for more than half the time, then that's what's important.
Yes as you say for years now what i can do one day i cant the next & what i can do in the morning i wouldnt be able to in the afternoon. Ive had a replacement ((+others) hip since i was 19 (44years) & thanks to the NHS i was able to work for 42 yrs however i am now just seeing if i could claim a little bit back to help me live independently & it seems so hard and complicated! As the Medway-lady advises i will check with CAB before making any additional claim. Thanks for your help.
I don’t agree Ajay, a broken hip doesn’t mean you are entitled to PIP. It is for long term ill health or disability. A broken hip will heal. Whether Afcbsupporter will qualify for the mobility component after their hip has healed will need to be looked at later on.
The hip hasnt broken 3 times.. the first time it was replaced 44years ago was because the bones had worn away with the RA - 7 years later the replacement was replaced due to wear & tear (& they werent as strong then) then 13 years ago the replacement replacement was replaced (2nd one lasted 25yezrs as aposed to 7 for 1st one) but because of being so worn i had a lot of bone grafting to make up my own bones, & was in hospital over 6 weeks & came home unable to walk - i had physio at home. It was a professors team that operated then & who i saw in January this year, after not walking at all over xmas & he explained my body never accepted the bone grafting and has gradually broken up - he went on to say as i have no bone around the hip area to fix a replacement to there is nothing more they can do- i was told to cope with the pain or its likelly i will be wheelchair bound. He said if bone graft has once rejected it will again he then explained to remove the existing replacement could cause paralysis, dropped foot. Blood problems & said it would be too risky plus as the RA is all over i wouldnt have strength to use any walking aids. Therefore it will never mend. Im now presuming if i dont return the form in the given time i will carry on as of now!, until i have my first review...
Thankyou for clearing that up Afcbsupporter, you saying your hip was broken confused things a bit as that wouldn’t be the kind of change PIP need to be told about. Your situation as it is now would though so that’s clearer. I hope you get your PIP sorted. 😊
You do not know that; it's purely supposition you don't know the whole circumstances so my advice is that it's best to get proper advice using the figures as an example. To raise hopes that this is a forgone conclusion is wrong. It's vital to report a change of circumstances in fact it's a requirement but this might not be seen as a coc but as a new claim for another component and yes she/he might get more but its NOT a forgone conclusion. Sorry but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I'm not an expert any more but do understand why these things are said.
The legislation is not interested in what might happen or even what might not happen as it does not affect the now which is what is important. I'm sorry the OP is in such a difficult position but she asked for advice and this is mine from many years experience. I could say a lot more about case reviews but it serves no purpose. I never at any point said care would be withdrawn either but the claim could be reviewed.
I would like to echo the advice offered by Medway Lady and Mike Fox, as it is quite a complicated situation.
Although you only want to make a claim for the mobility component, when you ask the DWP to look at your claim again they look at the WHOLE award - daily living and mobility. You will get a whole new form to complete. Therefore if you fill in the daily living section, and the DWP feel they've spotted any instances they can identify where your care needs may have changed since your last form, or you have contradicted what you said before, your award could potentially be reduced. If you kept a copy of your previous form, the best plan would be to copy the information from before. Alternatively, you could try writing something like "no change to daily living needs" on each of the daily living activities. The DWP may contact you and ask for more info, or may not. Depends on how stringent they are being at present. Also, if it's been some time since your last review, take extra care.
With the Mobility component, you need to get 12 points from one descriptor to get the enhanced amount. This would mean being able to tick descriptor (e)
" ......... can't walk more than 20 metres."
Think about whether you can manage this distance:- RELIABLY (to a reasonable standard); TIMELY (less than twice the time taken by someone without your condition); REPEATEDLY (being able to walk that distance repeatedly throughout the day as activity requires) and, SAFELY (in a fashion unlikely to cause harm to the individual).
Also, be sure to describe any aids and appliances used when walking. Remember too the 50% rule as described by Mike Fox in his post.
Finally, brief tips for thinking about what write. For instance, you may walk 20 yards, but do you have to stop and rest part way, if so, more than once? Doing it repeatedly? Do you limp/have an awkward gait? Does walking cause you pain? If so, where? Are you always in pain when walking? If so - say! Do you have to take painkillers before/after walking? Have you fallen and injured yourself? If so, did you have to have treatment? Just try and stay focused on why you can't repeatedly walk more than 20 metres.
Good Doctors' evidence can be crucial. Send some in with form if possible. GP evidence is good, but Consultant evidence better! Doctors don't usually have much understanding of the benefits system, so sometimes their evidence isn't always helpful. Try and speak to them and explain you need them to confirm that due to your condition/pain/damage etc, you are unable to walk more than 20 metres. Finally, always keep a copy of your completed form for future reference if at all possible.
Sorry it's such a long reply, but it is a tricky situation. I hope the above helps.
One more thing, definitely get advice from your local CAB or even better, if your council has a welfare rights unit, contact them.
Good luck!
Not a difference of opinion Ajay, broken bones are not an entitlement to PIP. Anyway it doesn’t matter because the hip isn’t broken.
Ajay I really can't be bothered to explain this anymore suffice to say I have given an opinion based on professional experience. I hope that the OP gets proper informed advice and doesn't loose out because they have ignored what could happen in favour or what someone thinks rather than being guided by the legislation and case law which is followed by the Benefits system.
I realise you mean you are trying to make a new claim but worth a mention too that when I changed from DLA to PIP my RA and OA had worsened and I was actually given the enhanced rate of home care from middle rate of DLA (I already had higher rate of mobility) but despite being deemed less able to cope at home the fact the benefit changed from DLA to PIP meant a loss of £380 per annum .....
I agree, I think you need your consultant and GP’s support and hope you can get this in these very difficult times. That is the key to getting your benefit awarded, but my change from DLA to PIP didn’t need a letter of support last May as they said I completed everything with more than enough information, but I did need an interview. So did most people in the change to PIP from DLA. My GP wrote a letter far better than the consultant tbh. His was amazing and he understood everything but it depends on who you see. My GP was excellent. It’s a very unsettling time so take many things with a pinch of salt of they seem unhelpful, and you can see who is helpful!
Someone on here gave me excellent advice last year about how to answer things. If you say a straight yes to ... Can you walk so and so .. they don’t see or hear anything more than the yes. Wording on the forms has changed from DLA to PIP. Less questions on PIL mobility section now too. Less chance to express yourself there so always add additional information on the form of an extra explanatory paragraph as they give space for this. Better to say .. no I cannot do this without stopping several times or only with assistance etc ... so how you word it is vital. Practice your wording/do a draft on plain paper first. Don’t think, well I could walk a certain distance ok last week/month .. think how is it for you every day. Not just one rare good day. Good luck. x
Thankyou. When i received my DLA i received (i think) the middle rate for mobility, then when it changed to PIP i had the interview & was awarded the highest rate of indepependent living but no mobility - i think i lost the points for the mobility as i said i didnt get worked up travelling alone or not understand how to get places, which i found strange were a large percentage for the points awarded & not the actual getting about physically. As the amount was higher than what i recvd on DLA i never went back to them, however now i can hardly get outside & when i do require taxis & help shopping etc i thought i could see if i now could claim any mobility to help me, but was surprised to be told that by applyjng j could be worse off. I came on this site to see if anyone else had experienced this & to get an idea if i should go ahead with it. Unfortunately i seem to have upset other sufferers and am still not sure if its worth all the hastle & maybe worse off. I dont drive & so far over the years have had 13 ops re my RA.
It is your right to make an application as its not charity but you asked for an opinion and I gave mine to explain what the officer who spoke to you might mean. If you feel that was wrong then I'm sorry and never did I, nor did I nor would I ever infur you should not apply. My point was and remains no one can say you will definitely get the Mobility Allowance and how if you get a review that it is correct to say one benefit will may impact on the other. I don't know your circumstances and would always say apply however sometimes what seems to be a simple thing actually isn't hence get advice from the CAB or Civil Rights Office. These organisations can help you. I wish you well and was concerned that you get the right advice for you in your best interests. I hope you succeed and do get more help.
in reply to Afcbsupporter
It your right to apply. I did I had to reduce my working hours which impacted on me financially. At the moment there’s no chance I can increase my working hours or work full time. My disease is the reason. My fatigue is so bad I’m a danger on the road and I find there are days I don’t or can’t leave the house.would I have the need to have financial help before this disease.. NO !! Its not charity it enables you to live with less worry it certainly won’t make you well off.
Yes your circumstances have changed your mobility has now become impaired and you have been told there is nothing more than can do.this is a big change. If you go anywhere shopping or a meal etc ( when this is over) a disabled badge will help.
I can’t tell you what to do. I would get letters of support from all the doctors or nurses you have dealt with especially the one who said there’s nothing can be done and reapply
Good luck what ever you decide
I'm truly sorry if you feel my, or anyone else's advice was meant to put you off claiming or if you feel you have upset anyone. I'm sure that's absolutely not the case.
Having worked in Welfare Rights for many years before ill-health retirement, we were always trained to point out to people the implications of making a claim - good or bad, so the person could make a fully informed decision on what to do.
My comments about what kind of thing to put on the form were most certainly meant as a guide to help you try and succeed in your claim.
Again, I wish you the very best of luck with any claim, and very much hope you have a successful outcome.
Kind Regards😊
I hope you can manage to get your PIP sorted and don’t give up. Yes I could see the difference on the PIP form re mental health issues and going out and there are only two main questions about physical mobility you can get your 12 score from to go onto higher rate. You have a need and shouldn’t give up so please don’t.
You haven’t upset me and I haven’t seen you upsetting people here by asking genuine questions and being honest. Also not everyone here will always be sensitive in the way they respond even if they mean well. Just the way some people are .. not always so subtle. Please don’t not come back if someone has made a hard comment. I haven’t read through everything above. There are many wonderful people here who will support you and I’m sure frank comments are meant to try and help by trying to point out how the assessment criteria works. You sound a very patient and decent person and sometimes nice people get trodden on. I’ve had a lot of that myself and although I’m placid and patient mostly, I’m also very feisty too If people try cross the line! I call it my self preservation society!!) Your experience is also valid as it could be helping others who read but don’t post.
Please don’t give up on trying to get your PIP and you could always complete a draft of your application then let CAB see it. Or read it over the phone to them in these times of isolation. See if anyone there could advise on the mobility wording of you feel stuck there. It’s not trying to fool anyone, it’s trying to give the very best account of how your condition affects you and we aren’t always good at describing our own inabilities. I was awful at so doing for years and said .. I’m fine thanks ... until a friend who was severely disabled made me apply for DLA. x
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