Gelatine may be a good supplement to think about?

[Simba1992]

Supplementing with gelatine may in fact be especially beneficial for us with RA. Gelatine supports gut and mucosal function and has many positive effects on our tissues. In RA we often have what is called Mast cell activation wich means that our adaptive immunesystem is activated resulting in histamine activation. It has been shown that MCA is an integral part of the disease process in RA. Symptoms of this is seen in strong reactions to bug bites and other allergic skin reactions. Gelatine counteracts tryptophan wich feeds MCA. Supplementing with gelatine has shown to calm this down and also have an effect on the level of inflammation.

I have personal experience of its positive effects. Am waiting for the summer to see the effect on insect bites, since I have really had a problem since diagnosed with RA.

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

[VeronicaF]

is that Gummy bear?

[Simba1992 in reply to VeronicaF]

Do read the link😊👍🏻

[VeronicaF in reply to Simba1992]

yes I read it, are gummy candies gummy bears?

[helixhelix in reply to VeronicaF]

Yes, but not the vegetarian ones!

Wouldn't it be great if all our drugs came in a form that we wanted to eat? Methotrexate cheese on toast anyone?

[Soreknees2016 in reply to helixhelix]

Or maybe chocolate...🍫🍫

[Simba1992 in reply to Soreknees2016]

Dark chocolate in fact a good way to support the antioxidant need we have.😊

[Simba1992 in reply to helixhelix]

In a way this is how it should be. Anything we put in our mouths should be good for us, benefit the normal function of our bodies not cause harm. Supplementing and giving our bodies right nutrients in a form that we digest optimally is just that. RA meds on the otherhand always unfortunately have the harm side attached to them. This is the burden many of us are forced to carry but the harm can be minimized in many ways. Supplementing with gelatine may be one of them(?)

[helixhelix in reply to Simba1992]

Bacon McDonalds & fries? Not very good for you either....in fact it seems a daily bacon butty might be just as risky as a weekly biologic. 🙂

[Simba1992 in reply to helixhelix]

Cannot be compared in any way and besides daily bacon is not necessarily a bad thing. New research is coming up showing that animal fats are not the culprits in CVD.Besides most people eat at least a somehow balanced diet where the good balances out the bad. This you cannot say about biologics or any other RA med.

[helixhelix in reply to Simba1992]

More referring to research about the nitrates used in curing bacon and other meats being carginogenic.

theguardian.com/news/2018/m...

But as we all know, there are so many variables and so much unknown about how your own genetics plays a part that no one can say for 100% sure what is right and what is wrong.

[Simba1992 in reply to helixhelix]

Yes you are right about the nitrates. You can make a better choice and eat unprocessed bacon.

It's never possible to be100% sure of anything.But there is always a calculated possibility.

Our genes do react differently but it becomes more and more evident that the internal metabolic enviroment for genetic triggering and mutations plays a central part. We have different degerenative processes going on as we age wich constantly change how our metabolism and immune responses work. It has been shown that PUFAs accelerate this aging process, as an example.

[GranAmie in reply to helixhelix]

has anyone come across 'naked bacon', supposed to be chem / nitrite free?. i don't eat pig... or any meat nowadays but him indoors luvs the occasional fry up .. rugby nights only lol.

[helixhelix in reply to GranAmie]

Yes I've tried it (In the interests of research you understand!). Tastes ok but doesn't look or cook quite the same. I eat meat extremely rarely but occasionally have an urge for bacon so I hoped this might be the answer. It's fine, but I think I'll be eatimg it even less often which is probably good.

[nablur in reply to Simba1992]

I buy nitrite free bacon.

[AgedCrone in reply to helixhelix]

Have you looked up how gelatine is made?

Mashed up bones & body parts of animals!

I don't think so!

[Simba1992 in reply to AgedCrone]

There are different qualities of gelatine.

greatlakesgelatin.com/store...

[Shalf]

Nope! Can't eat animals. 😨

[Simba1992 in reply to Shalf]

This collagen is from bovine hide there are also collagen powders from fish.

[Shalf in reply to Simba1992]

I do eat fish. It digests far better than beef.

[Lina282 in reply to Simba1992]

So if we buy this powder do we need to stir it in water and drink it? Or can we buy capsules? Would be easier 😄

[Fra22-57]

In what form is it best to eat please

[Simba1992 in reply to Fra22-57]

The best way is as in the link is the gelatin powder discribed in the link. It disolves easily in any liquid cold or warm. The safe and clean one is the Great Lakes green container you get from amazon and many reputable online sites selling good quality supplements and vitamins. The recommended daily dose is between 3-6 tbls daily mixed anywhere during day.

This is one supplement that I really recommend. Has helped with my ichiness and gut issues really a lot!

[Fra22-57 in reply to Simba1992]

Thanks. Sounds really interesting

[Lina282 in reply to Simba1992]

Sorry for the question I have just read it that you already answered the same question to Fra22-57.

[Simba1992 in reply to Lina282]

So very easy to use, stir in anything you like during day.😊👍🏻

[Simba1992]

If someone is interested in a more scientific view on gelatine and its role in metabolism,this is a very informative article.

raypeat.com/articles/articl...

[happytulip]

Thats why I make my own bone broth or meat jelly as my friends call it. I've definitely noticed a difference in my inflammation. Its not good if you need a low histamine diet though.

[Simba1992 in reply to happytulip]

Not true the gelatine counteracts histamine reaction this has been shown in research and also seen as a reason for why gelatine calms inflammation.

[happytulip in reply to Simba1992]

That's interesting. I've always been told by dieticians that bone broth is not good for someone who needs a low histamine diet. I've also been told that anything that takes a long time to cook is higher in histamine. I suffer fro m mast cell a bit but anti histamines don't seem to help much.

I'd be interested to read anything that you can recommend about bone broth being ok for low histamine diets. Not saying you are wrong by any means, but if I've been told the opposite it makes me want to hit the books and see if I'm wrongly informed!

You seem very knowledgeable where diet is involved.

[Simba1992 in reply to happytulip]

It's the gelatine in bone broth that is good for us and calms gut lining and histamine reaction. I have a link here on this thread explaining the action of gelatine. I'll see what else I can find for you😊

[Simba1992 in reply to happytulip]

Yes you are right on the point that cooking food too long releases histamine. Bonebroth is often cooked too long, and this is the reason for the histamine alert. Taking powdered gelatine gives you the antihistamine effect more clearly. I used to cook my own bone broth for 48h and really didn't find the effect very good. Swiching over to Great Lakes hydralated powder made a huge difference! Keeping away from histamine rich foods in general really helps.

[happytulip in reply to Simba1992]

So the powdered supplement has the same action in repairing leaky gut?

I don't know that brand but do react badly to a lot of "extra additives" in supplements if you get my drift. Many people have commented on how much my hair has thickened and my skin is better since I've been on bone broth (I hadn't told them). Also, my understanding is that bone broth contains calcium. I'm on long-term high dose pred so that is important for me. But if you're telling me I can get that from a sachet and not have marrow bones that look like they are from a T-Rex in my freezer I'd be delighted!!

[helixhelix in reply to happytulip]

What I call stock?

[happytulip in reply to helixhelix]

I'm not sure what the technical difference between a stock and bone broth is or if there is one at all. I imagine that they are much the same. I think if I were to make a stock I'd add a few more veg etc for flavour.

I can only say what I do which is use marrow bones and bones with as much connective tissue attached as possible. If I'm doing a chicken broth I use chicken wings, feet, neck etc. Pork I use trotters and I ask the butcher to split them in half.

I basically roast all the bones or whatever I'm using. I stick that in my slow cooker. I add some pepper corns, a carrot, a small onion and 2 tbsp of cider vinegar and top it up with water. I let it cook for 24-48 hrs.

Apparently the cider vinegar is key because it helps extract all the amino acids and enzymes from the bones and marrow that go into healing the gut (anyone step in if I'm wrong here because this is just what I have read after trawling the net).

I find that it is helping me in many ways as I have other AI diseases and it also makes me feel fuller when I would normally reach for some other food stuff. Being on high dose pred I am desperate to keep my weight down so if drinking bone juice, as my friends call it makes me feel less hungry then thats fine by me!

I think a stock has a bit more of a stronger flavour and I'd put salt in a stock but I suppose they are much the same.

I drained last nights batch of broth and it's now in the fridge. It is so thick that I had to cut it with a knife first so I could get proper leverage with a spoon. It seems like you could bounce a ball off it.

[happytulip in reply to happytulip]

I would add that when it comes to draining the broth the bone have practically dissolved.

[Simba1992 in reply to happytulip]

Sounds familiar😊

[happytulip in reply to Simba1992]

I'm doing ok then?? All the right things? I hope so, my poor crockpot is always bubbling away like a cauldron! Joking apart, I do feel better for it and I've been on and off IV and oral antibiotics for about 6 months in total last year so my gut took a hammering. What has surprised me is people commenting on my hair and skin who has no idea that I was on the broth. I though my nails would be a little stronger though, they are a but flaky still but I suppose that is the pred again.

Bone broth must have good levels of calcium I'd imagine?

[Simba1992]

The collagen is the important stuff you get for the bones. Very hard to get calcium from supplements. Dairy products and they say the best way is to get from egg shells. Need to be prepared though and then crushed.

Yes the great lakes gelatine is very clean,

[Onthefarshore]

I have spent the last few months on the AIP (Paleo Autoimmune Protocol) and have discovered I have a histamine intolerance. In reading about this issue, I came across the information that it can be the result of mast cell activation. Is it important to rule out that condition, and if so how?

[Simba1992 in reply to Onthefarshore]

Now this is interesting and very central in the pathogenesis of RA. It has been shown that mast cell activation is seen together with the inflammatory reaction in RA joints, not so in healthy people. This means biochemicly that we have too much Tryptophan. It has been shown in research that taking gelatin as a supplement calms the situation and the inflammation. It is even thought that mast cell activation gives a jump start to RA. So supplementing with Gelatin may be of great benefit. Would be interested to hear more about your experiences with the diet. All the best. Simba

I had a lot of histamine activation in the beginning of my RA and when on AIP.