Some Info on mRNA Dose vs Effect

[EPguy]

I've posted on the different dose sizes used in the mRNA covid vaxes.

Moderna uses a higher dose than Pfizer for all available adult shots, booster or not. See my reply to Jelbea below for explanation of this. With that fact, the latest vax for Omiron has some dose vs effect info:

This is some interesting info on the type of vax that was recently approved in UK. This type combines the original vax with Omicron ba.1. (the strain from last winter)

I made this plot from the press releases both companies had. It shows how much better the new vax is against ba.1 compared to the original one by this measurement. Up to 2X better. It's not a huge improvement, experts are ok with it but not extra impressed vs staying with the old shot. ba.1 is not around anymore but they also claim this UK type shot helps against ba.5.

The reason I looked into this was to see if the dose vs effect continues to hold, and it clearly does. So as has been the case for a while, more is better, at least for "neutralizing titers", (how much useful antibody is created by the shot) It follows that side effects may be more with higher dose, as we often have seen with Mod (50mcg) vs Pfz (30 mcg).

The 60 mcg Pfizer is not likely to be made available, I think it was just part of the trial for them to compare.

In the US we will not see these shots, they are planning a ba.5 type instead. Supposed to be available next month. I hope there can be data for that one like here.

[Jelbea]

I do not even try to understand all the figures and reports but one thing I do know is that in the UK booster doses of Moderna were given at half strength. I was advised to get Pfizer as a booster and not to have Moderna at all.

[EPguy in reply to Jelbea]

There is much confusion on the two doses. Actually Moderna is always more than Pfz in all adult indications that are published. Sorry they have made it so complicated.

*If you want a larger dose Moderna is always the choice for more vax in adult use. If you prefer a smaller dose, (possibly less risk of side effects etc) get Pfizer.

-Mod = 100mcg for two primary doses.

-Mod= 100mcg for "3rd" dose (for immune compromised)

-Mod=50mcg for all booster doses. This is the source of the 1/2 dose confusion. This is a 4th dose for immune comps, 3rd and later for all others.

=Pzf is 30mcg for all adult doses in any stage of vaccination.

So Pfz is 30, and Moderna is more at 50mcg for all adults getting boosters.

There is extra confusion when they use mL for the dose. We should look only at mcg, the same units we use for our IFN shots.

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UK dosing data:(same as US)

Moderna: gov.uk/government/publicati...

<<For the primary series, Spikevax (moderna) should be administered as two ... (100 microgram) doses for individuals 12 years of age and older. >>

<< A third dose may be given at least 1 month after the second dose to individuals 12 years of age and older ... (100 micrograms) who are severely immunocompromised.>>

<<A booster dose (... 50 micrograms) of Spikevax may be given at least 3 months after a primary series in individuals 18 years of age and older.>>

Pfizer: gov.uk/government/publicati...

<<Comirnaty 30 micrograms/dose concentrate for dispersion for injection is given to adults and adolescents from 12 years of age and older.>>

[Jelbea in reply to EPguy]

Thankyou for your detailed response. The UK dosing instructions look good on paper. However, when many of us tried to get the additional booster our general practitioners had not been told and knew nothing of it and refused to arrange the booster. Even my haematologist had not heard of the boosters and did nothing to help me to access mine. I had to go on line and search for more details and eventually found a hospital about 20 miles away who knew about the boosters for MPN patients and I got mind there. That is when I was advised to stay away from Moderna as they only had it half strength.

This has happened also with the ruling regarding treatment if you do get Covid. My doctor seems completely unaware of the situation. So far I have managed to isolate enough to keep clear of Covid and intend to keep doing so although it means a very limited lifestyle.

Again thanks for your reply and good wishes to you

[EPguy in reply to Jelbea]

So you were stuck at only the 1st booster? Anyway I did not get a 4th either, but 4th is less common in the US. But I got "vaxed" at the start with the real original Covid, so I have "hybrid" immunity.

That hospital's info on the doses as you can see is not correct.(unless Dr has some non-standard medicines) Curious where they got that data. It is a disservice for those who have dosing preferences.