Trail Shoes: A Cautionary Tale (Mea Culpa)

[Pugwash]

I have a pal who is a trail and fell runner. His pics on his runs look lovely (all of that off the beaten track, running through plantations stuff) and so, as I've got fitter I thought "I'll have a bit of that" and bought some trail shoes in an online sale. Long story short - I'm now injured and it's my own stupid fault.

Trail shoes are generally stiffer and lighter than 'standard' trainers and have less cushioning on the sole. The width of the 'toe box' is critical too (the Salomon's I bought were a bit tight so I tried the frozen water trick) and stupidly, I set out on a 10km try out road run on which they were fine at first but, typically, at the point of no return, they started hurting, my toes took a hammering and an old, long dormant Achilles injury has returned. My learnings in no particular order:

1. They have a great grip and are lightweight.

2. Size and toe box width are both critical to selection. They're designed for the trail and so soles will take a pounding if used for road running. Get 'em a bit longer and wider than you usually would other running shoes.

3. They generally have zero drop, so heel and calf injury prone folk beware.

4. There are huge variances in toe box width between brands (I now have a pair of Altras - they major on this dimension so the their shoes look like boats but fit me very well).

5. Trail shoes are for off road, running shoes for on road. Doh!

6. Always take new shoes for a short trial run first - even if this uses up a precious "run day" window.

7. If it starts to hurt, stop. I was in the middle of nowhere when this happened so did a sort of slow jog/walk to get home but knew I was stoking up trouble with every step).

Will I give it another go? You betcha, but I'll be a lot more humble in my ambition next time. Meanwhile, I'm resting up (Achilles injuries are notorious for the length of time they take to settle) and generally being an ursa caput valde. That's your actual latin!

[roseabi Ultramarathon]

I'm sorry to hear that you're injured! Hope you feel better soon - if you're not already doing them I recommend eccentric heel drops.

I think that the drop of the shoe was the most likely cause of the Achilles problem (rather than trail shoes per se) - if you are not used to zero drop shoes?

I checked with the manufacturer of my trail shoes (Inov8 - also very good shoes), because I need to run on roads for a while before I get to the trails, and they said it was fine to do so. It does depend on the type of trails your shoes were made for though.

I definitely second trying out the shoes first - wearing them around the house is a good idea as this makes it easier to return them 😊😊😊

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to roseabi]

Thanks for the reply roseabi - some good advice there, however my experience was that wearing them around the house (I did that for a couple of weeks as part of the 'stretching the toe box' thing) wasn't testing enough to flag up potential trouble spots. 10km was much too far for a test of new shoes though - I can't believe I was so stupid as to do it.Regarding my, now sore, Achilles, I'm sure you're right about the zero drop contributing but the lack of a cushioned sole played its part too I think - I found running in them to be a much more "direct" experience where muscular support structures took a pounding.

I shall look in to both hybrids and Inov8s so thanks again!

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to Pugwash]

Good point about cushioning - did you get cushy Altras? Inov8 do a hybrid shoe, it's called 'Parkclaw' 😄 inov-8.com/mens-park-runnin... Both my pairs of Inov8s give quite a hard ride, mind you.

I have been known to run HM distance in brand new road shoes 😊😊😊 Trail shoes do tend to be pretty stiff, so maybe that's the difference!?

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to roseabi]

Yes, I DID get "cushy" Altras 😀. They're Lone Peak 4.5's and so far they're feeling better for me than the Salomon design, but they haven't had the real test outside yet.

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to Pugwash]

Lovely! I definitely want to try Altras sometime, they will be my next shoes 😊😊😊

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to roseabi]

I got mine for at least £40 off the RRP from extremeadventureraces.com . They're in Hull. Not used them before but I would check them out again next time.

[misswobble Marathon in reply to roseabi]

Mine give me hellish blisters Slippery as ice skates anorl

Glad I didn’t pay full price for them

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to misswobble]

Sorry to hear that. On the basis that yours are also Altras, where on the foot do they rub?

[misswobble Marathon in reply to Pugwash]

My toe ends, between my toes and underneath my big toes

They are supremely comfortable though so are great for knocking about in. I’ve got the Torin 2.5

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to misswobble]

I bought half a size larger in the Altras after my trouble with the Salomons and, so far, they're comfy, but I haven't run in them yet and that's obviously the real test. So I've gone wider and longer with these than ever before. Wish me luck - it's costing a fortune to find the right ones!

[misswobble Marathon in reply to Pugwash]

Oh it’s a game innit 🙂. At the moment I’ve got two big toes nails, plus one other, ready for coming off. That was my November marathon wot did it 🙄 Can’t blame the Torins for that though I cover my feet in Vaseline and wear 1000 mile socks Got some Ininji ones now so going to give those a whirl on my next long run

I’ve got a gift voucher for a run shop in Matlock but til they’re open again it’s burning a hole in my pocket. Christmas gift from my husband Going to get me some road shoes The 90 minute shoe fitting session is included so it should be thorough

[RunWillie Marathon in reply to roseabi]

Sorry to hear you’re injured Pugwash 😢

I’ve just bought some Altras road shoes not trail. I’m normally a Hoka girl so my lowest drop so far has been 3-4 in my Hoka trail shoes. My road Hoka’s are more like 5 I think.

roseabi Any advise on trying zero drop for the first time? I’m happy to proceed with extreme caution although I may dream of running countless ultra’s injury free in my zero drop shoes 🤣

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to RunWillie]

Thanks for your concern - it's a (literal) pain but I have to take it on the chin; hence sharing my salutary tale here.My own approach to the zero drop thing is to currently use gel heel inserts (l bought my Altras for the toe box design and grippy tread). We'll see if I'm brave enough to "go zero" one day and I'm interested in what @roseabi has to say.

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to RunWillie]

The advice is to introduce zero drops gradually, alternating with some higher drop shoes. For how long partly depends upon have much cushioning your shoes have - but since you are already used to low drop shoes you should be ok in a couple of weeks.

Of course for transitioning from higher drops and/or injury, you should take much more time, maybe months

Also, working on the strength of your calves and feet is a good idea (always!) - the sorts of exercises prescribed for Achilles tendinopathy and plantar fasciitis are excellent.

[RunWillie Marathon in reply to roseabi]

Thanks roseabi

That’s super helpful.

I will go slowly over a few months. I’ve just got up to 100k per month so keen not to mess it up.

Will let you know how I go ❤️🏃‍♀️

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to RunWillie]

Great, hope you enjoy the shoes! I'm definitely interested in the Altra road shoes 😊😊😊

[SkiMonday Ultramarathon]

Thanks for that. Very timely advice from my point of view. I'm likely to be doing a mix of on & off road so I'm still not sure what shoes to go for.

Hope you recover soon.

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to SkiMonday]

Look for hybrid shoes xx

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to SkiMonday]

Thanks SkiMonday - I hope so too! I've spent far too many weeks getting over these type of injuries in the past (I was 30+ kg heavier then though).Please don't let my tale put you off - I'm sure that my predisposition for this injury played it's part. My key message is to get a good (i.e. comfortable) fit and do short "test" runs to settle them in.

[SkiMonday Ultramarathon in reply to Pugwash]

No worries! I understood your post and will bear it in mind when trying out new shoes. Besides, I've already signed up to the Green Man Ultra so I'm committed!

[Irishprincess Administrator Half Marathon]

I normally run on a mixture of surfaces but have never owned a pair of trail shoes and haven’t had a problem so far. I didn’t know that about the toe box so if I ever change my mind about getting a pair, I’ll remember your advice.

If it makes you feel any better I’ve done no 7 a few times in my running life and fairly recently too - have just got off the IC 🙄 I seem to have a child’s inability to learn from my previous mistakes 😂

Hope you’re not out for too long......

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to Irishprincess]

Good point! It really depends on the types of trails you run on, road shoes are often perfectly fine for trails.

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

Thanks. Yeah, that No.7 eh?! I blame myself entirely - I didn't think that first run through.

[nowster Metric Marathon]

Were you wearing thicker socks, too? It might be recommended to wear two layers of socks if the shoes will accommodate it.

[nowster Metric Marathon]

The she-bear (ursa) is more deadly than the male. 😉

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to nowster]

Same socks as with my "normal" trainers. Thicker ones would not have been more comfy I don't think, just tighter, and I believe (but can't be 100%) that trail runners prefer no socks because of all of the running through the mud and wet that they do.

[Tasha99 Marathon]

Aren’t Altras zero drop? This is quite bad for Achilles and lower leg/foot issues. You need a higher drop. Minimum 8mm. Possibly more.

zappos.com/c/what-is-heel-t...

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

They are. I use gel inserts.

[misswobble Marathon in reply to Pugwash]

I like zero drop shoes but you have to transition into them

I’ve got trail shoes for mud, and trail shoes for my very stoney trail which have a rock plate. A stone under the big toe is flippin agony 😁

[nowster Metric Marathon in reply to misswobble]

Absolutely agree. All my shoes are zero drop minimalist, including my hiking boots.

However I have been wearing minimalist shoes for 9 years, long before I started running in them.

[misswobble Marathon in reply to nowster]

I made the change after I got a serious shin splint. I don’t run long distances in them though my fave shoe is a 4mm and I’ve run a marathon in those 🙂

[nowster Metric Marathon in reply to misswobble]

I've done all my running in zero drop toe shoes. My longest run so far is 10km. (Hence me starting to post here.)

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Pugwash]

Heel inserts possibly not giving you enough height? 🤔

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

They've been fine in my road shoes. Yet to test them on a run in the trail shoes.

[Dexy5 10 Miles]

My OH tried lots of insoles with lots of trails at local running shop and found the perfect combination. But he decided to wear them without insoles for parkrun as he hadn’t got round to trimming them. Bad idea. Achilles injury followed . I then cut his insoles to fit, no problems since!

[nowster Metric Marathon in reply to Dexy5]

It takes a long time for the tendons to adjust to a change in heel drop.

[misswobble Marathon in reply to nowster]

It does, which is why you need another pair of shoes so you can transition gently over weeks and months

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to misswobble]

I've never had two (or more) pairs of running shoes on the go, but now that I am running more consistently and further too, the folly of that has become apparent so I've dug out (I'm in Yorkshire - spending money's tough for us!). I'm not likely to bother with the zero drop movement - I'll be happy to find shoes that suit me and to stick with them (until they change the design again 🙄).

[Lifluf]

Sorry to hear about your injury Pugwash I have trail shoes that I use for muddy paths as I found I slipped in my running shoes and they definitely don't have the same cushioning. However it's not always possible to run exclusively on road or trail so I have to work out which surface I'm on most when planning a run.

PS I run slower on tracks but it's lovely to be away from roads and civilisation 😊

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

That's good advice, thanks. I'll deffo go slower off road - years of squash (in the dim and distant now) have left me with unstable ankles and I don't want to turn one on a rut in the middle of nowhere!😱

[Decker Ultramarathon]

Sorry to hear of your misadventure. Yeah I remember trying Salomon’s out in the shop and though very cool, they did feel really stiff and tight in the toes. Many runners love them. I wound up going with Hoka Speedgoats and have no regrets. The cushioning is ridiculous and the grip is outstanding on trails and in snow. A big factor was going up a full size and I think this really made a difference. Hope the Altras do the job. I tried them out too but was worried about the zero drop on my achilles as well.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Decker]

Also hated Salomon and love my Speedgoats 😍

[misswobble Marathon in reply to Decker]

I got some Mizuno Hyate trail shoes (gift 😁👍) and was warned they’d be stiff and need breaking in. Stiff as boards in fact at first but I revere them now 🙏😃. Great on wet mud Yeeeeeeeeeeeha! 🏃‍♀️

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to misswobble]

misswobble None of us has the same feet as anyone else and so there's always going to be a bit of trial and error in finding the "right" ones. Happily, that's worked out for you and your Mizunas and that's great! I tried everything with the Salomons but that toe box just wasn't right enough for me. My current injury is pretty much completely subscribable to me not heeding the warning signs that their design just ain't for me. I'm much more hopeful about the Altras.👍🏴‍☠️

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

Very helpful comments Decker - thank you. I looked at Hokas too, but since I am only giving trail running a trial for now and having already wasted money on the Salomons, I went for the Altras based on the fact they were in the sale, on a positive review from my pal and the obviously large toe box. I went up a half-size too and, like you, I'm glad that I did.Since I'm hors de combat currently, I'm just wearing the Altras around and about and about but so far I'm very pleased with their comfort; nothing like the cushion that comes with Hokas but nice and roomy, and I'll address the zero drop by using gel heel inserts (I've done this for a couple of years now and they work for me). The grip's exceptional also and has had a good test in the icy conditions that currently prevail. Let's hope I can use them soon for the purpose for which they were purchased!

[Katnap Marathon]

Thanks for this post Pugwash 👍I'm sure SkiMonday appreciates it too.

Since graduating from C25K I've added hybrid soft-roaders to my shoe collection so as I've moved from The Bridge to Marathon Support I've been able to rotate what shoes I wear.

Pre pandemic I tried on Solomon shoes and found the stiffness caused too much movement ie. rubbing around the ankles so although I could appreciate the toe protection and rock/stone plate I didn't fancy getting blisters for the pleasure!

As I've got fitter and faster my running has changed so I'm starting on the tentative 'goal' of minimalist, lower drop shoes.

I've rotated in some Hyperion Tempo roadies with 8mm drop. My right Achilles can sometimes be a bit sore after, so I'm glad I still have the 10mm drop hybrid traillies.

I've now got a pair of Inov-8 X-talon with a 4mm drop. Instantly comfy! Didn't expect that. And very flexible! Also unexpected. Just need to get them dirty and report back now!

🐱 Katnap 🐱

[NotPrime in reply to Katnap]

I find my X-talons terrific for fast descents on steep loose terrain. My son assures me they’re also good for fast ascent; I’m well past keeping up with him. He did warn me to limit distance at first until I was used to the feel of them. I remember switching to them for one of my regular 8k hilly trail runs about 18months ago and taking nearly 5 minutes off my previous time because my footing felt so secure. I try to limit the distance I’m on roads in them to a couple of k as it gets uncomfortable beyond that - definitely not what they’re designed for.

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to NotPrime]

Very helpful input NotPrime - thanks a lot. I wish I'd had your son's advice before setting off on my ill fated first try out of the ultimately unsuitable (for me) Salomons.Others have mention X-talons here too, so I'll have to look them up. I'm not targetting trail running as a major addition to my running, I just want to give it a wee try since I have trails local to me. Point well made about limiting road running in trail shoes too - a wise move (I now know 🙄).

[NotPrime in reply to Pugwash]

If trail running is unlikely to be a major part of your running X-talons may be an expensive luxury. They really are an out and out specialist hill/trail running shoe. I spend 90% of my running on hills and trails, my expensive luxury is the very occasional pair of road shoes 😊

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to NotPrime]

Thanks for that NotPrime - guess I'll see how I go with the Altras for what I intend, at this stage, to be just an occasional run on trails in the hills. I am however friends with someone who used to race with Ron Hill (his tale of their race up Ben Nevis is a beauty) so you never know what'll rub off on me 😀.

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to Katnap]

Much food for thought here Katnap - thanks a lot. You're the owner of an enviable number of running shoe options and mention some brands and/or designs I'll have to go and look up.Most of the time I'm happy running 10-15km on even surfaces (with the occasional longer, competitive foray) so I'm only trying out trail running because of where I live (Yorkshire Dales) and not as the next stage in my running career.

Having been plagued by Achilles problems over the years before I shed quite a lot of weight, I don't envisage me pursuing the minimalist zero-drop route, on the "if it ain't broke" principle. It was a bit of a heartbreak to get the Achilles flare up recently when things have gone so well, but it was self-inflicted and is, I'm pleased to say, settling now (running again by the end of the week with luck after a two week hiatus).

I'm really glad that I made my original post because I've learned so much from folks like you. Until I bought the Salomons that didn't work out and the Altras which seem to suit me better (but have yet to be "run tested") I've only owned one pair of runners at a time, replacing them when the give out, but having options seems like a more sensible, if more pricey, way to go. Rotation, rotation, rotation :-).

Thanks again - you're input is most welcome!

[Katnap Marathon in reply to Pugwash]

No worries! My hybrid traillies are ASICS GEL Venture. The tread is a bit deeper than road shoes and they work fine on most surfaces. I've run over 25km in one run in them. No issues on road and rocky or muddy paths. The oldest pair (version 6) have done over 800km and the version 7 over 350km. Both show little wear on the tread 👍. One niggle. The V6 have removable insoles. Great 'cos I have some posh insoles that are going in them this week. But the v7 insoles seem to be glued in! Why!!? Removing insoles is one of the tricks used to help dry soaking wet shoes!

So I wouldn't recommend using (v7) in rainy or deep muddy conditions but they transition well and won't give you an uncomfortable ride on 100% tarmac runs.

[Pugwash Half Marathon in reply to Katnap]

Top tip on the V7's. Another folly with gluing in the insoles is that the running shop can't then "up sell" more fancy dan ones! An own goal by Asics there.

[johnm12 Half Marathon]

Sorry for the problems you had. Most of the running round here is a mixture of road and farm tracks. The farm tracks are muddy/icy at the moment, so better grip is required than in the summer. I do have a pair of Salomons but found them grippy but rather hard compared to my normal shoe ( Hoka Rincons) which are fine on grass/light grit in the Summer. Just got a pair of Hoka Mafates and they are super grippy and also well padded. Heel drop is 4mm compared with 5 on the Rincons and I really don't notice much difference on a run . They are noisy on tarmac though. Agree with all the other points you make though ( especially point 7) . There is such a difference between brands. Cheers John

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

Thanks for the helpful comments on your experience John. My injury is self-inflicted really so no sympathy deserved (I'm on the mend and hope to be out again by the end of the week)!With running shoes it really is finding what works for you personally isn't it? I've not tried Hokas before but their name keeps coming up in this thread so when I'm next in the market I'll keep them in mind. Trail running isn't going to replace my road running but with the Yorkshire Dales on my doorstep it seems foolish not to take advantage of them now that I'm fitter than in many years and the trail surfaces up there DO require different shoes.

My issue with the Salomons was that their standard design includes a toe box that's just too narrow for my particular feet, and it was resistant to all of the online stretching tips I tried. I'm sure they're great for lots of folk. Thanks again.

[sofaspud]

Great lessons for yourself and for us! Life is about learning, after all. I haven’t considered trail shoes as I usually do road running but have been seeking out more and more trails as running in nature is really special. Hope that Achilles heals soon (I feel your pain!)

[Pugwash Half Marathon]

Thanks sofaspud . Deffo lesson learned by me - new shoes=short test/bedding in runs. The Achilles is slowly settling again thankfully and I hope to get out for a gentle 5km in the park by the end of the week👍. Good luck with your trail running ventures.🏴‍☠️