Coronavirus: New antibody test 'with 99 per cent accuracy' approved for use across Europe* - an IgG test

[eekt]

'Positivity for anti-double stranded DNA (anti-dsDNA) IgG antibody is a diagnostic criterion of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE).' ...from a random Google

*independent.co.uk/news/heal...

Make of what you will, stay safe xxx

[DJK99]

Hey eekt -hmmm... interesting. Just found this on the web :

What does IgG positive mean?

"If the test shows only IgM, the person is likely in the early stage of the virus infection; If IgM and IgG are positive, the person is likely in the middle stage of infection, If the person is only positive for IgG, then the person is either over the infection or in its last stage".

medicinenet.com/how_do_the_...

Or some articles say positive lgM mean you've had dengue infection! And all sorts of things. Well I was positive for lgM in 2017! I suspect this isn't going to work quite in the way they are hoping................ as I presume you are saying? Certainly for those with autoimmune? Which is quite large part of the population! Sorry, that's all my brain cells can manage right now. Anyone else want to chime in? Thanks

[eekt in reply to DJK99]

Thanks DJK, I was thinking along the lines of 2nd stage Covid symptoms being uncannily similar to severe lupus (a posted a link to a graphic description in The Washington Post a few days back, with a caution), and what with a disproportionate number of BAME folks being affected by Covid (very high numbers within the NHS), as in lupus, not to mention the severe inflammatory response in a tiny number of children that ade the news yesterday, like lupus...oh yes, and research into genetic links and the role of Vitamin D in Covid, like lupus...and not forgetting HCQ appears not to PREVENT Covid - like it doesn't prevent lupus, but longer-term, it helps with immune modulation...is 2nd stage Covid a systemic inflammatory response to infection? Our rheumies will know, they've been redeployed to the frontline! xxx

[DJK99 in reply to eekt]

Yes - all of that is definitely true eekt... (from what we can read)....but this test..... it's very important reason for use... it's not exactly Covid19 specific eh? That's what I meant. Hmmm......... scratching head. Time for some telly.... xx

[eekt in reply to DJK99]

Aye, it's been a head-scratching time and not just due to scalp inflammation, yikes... xxx

[Redfox25 in reply to eekt]

Great summary eekt. I try to draw these lines too but my husband prefers to brush it under the carpet. I can show him that I'm not crazy now and that others reach the same tentative conclusions as me.

[Treetop33 in reply to eekt]

It's definitely spooky. And Covid can also cause coagulation and clots, like APS, Lupus's sister illness.

I'm also wondering if all the research being thrown at Covid might yield some insights for us too?

[eekt in reply to Treetop33]

Really, really hope so Treetop! And that is billions of pounds worth of research moving extremely fast! xxx

[Treetop33 in reply to eekt]

The problem all along is that they know so little about the immune system. The growth in learning could be phenomenal. Perhaps they will find that it's not only C19 which causes the immune system to go screwy? I had my first appearance of autoimmune issues - thyroid - after a horrible coughing virus on 2006. It 'went away' only to 'reappear' as something else - Lupus/APS and possibly still borderline thyroid issues - later.

[eekt in reply to Treetop33]

Let's hope the learning is as exponential as the Covid curve, with no flattening in medical science

Folks here have come up with a long, long list of SLE triggers, from an insect bite causing complete autoimmune paralysis (thankfully resolved, eventually) - as some poor soul with Covid did - to conception

Perhaps everyone on the forum should collaborate to write our own paper to help the scientists along lol! xxx

[eekt in reply to DJK99]

LOL looked up the company and on its website it says: 'The SARS-CoV-2 IgG assay is to be used as an aid in the diagnosis of SARS-CoV-2 infection in conjunction with clinical presentation and other laboratory tests. Results from the SARS-CoV-2 IgG assay should not be used as the sole basis for diagnosis.'

The company, Abbott, a US one, is among the latest companies to receive emergency use authorizations from the FDA for coronavirus antibody tests.

So it's the same test as the one from China the UK paid £20million for and found it's not specific enough...because it only shows you've had an infection (or lupus)??

My mind boggles! Sleep tight! xxx

[DJK99 in reply to eekt]

Hmmmmm. Scratch scratch. 🙄. I’m sure all the right people know what they’re dealing with/aiming for/doing. Ahaha. Sleep well eekt..! Xx

[happytulip in reply to DJK99]

This is interesting but what if your IgGs are all over the place and on the wonk anyway 🤪😬😄

[DJK99 in reply to happytulip]

Exactly.

[EOLHPC in reply to happytulip]

Yep.. & my immunodeficiency disease gives me chronic below ref range IgG & IgA & IgM (panhypogammaglobulineamia) so i don’t make antibodies at all...folk like us: we need them to perfect that IV plasma antibody treatment asap ❤️🍀

[eekt in reply to EOLHPC]

panhypogammaglobulineamia, waaaah...here's hoping the goose eggs from sub-cut IG are as a flat as an easy over by now! ❤️❤️❤️ xxxxx

[EOLHPC in reply to eekt]

🤩🤣🤣🤣🤣 thanks for starting my day with a guffaw: THE BEST medication 👏👏👏👏❤️🍀

[eekt in reply to EOLHPC]

❤️❤️❤️ xxx

[Roarah in reply to DJK99]

Yes you are correct.There are tons of different assays for different protien IGm and IGg. Chickenpox, measles, mumps and tons of other virus immunities are tested by finding protien specific IGg while acute infection would usually only show IgM to said protein..

[socalgord in reply to DJK99]

To perhaps clarify a little bit. IgM and IgG are two different classes of antibodies. In general each antigen (COVID19, dengue, other) produces a different type of IgM and IgG antibody. That is, an IgM antibody for dengue is different from an IgM antibody for COVID19 is different than an IgM for chickenpox. The same is true (even more so) for IgG. IgM antibodies are usually generated within about 1 week or so of exposure to the antigen, whereas IgG antibodies, that tend to be much more specific, take longer (2-4 weeks or so) to generate. IgM and IgG antibodies should be described as the class (IgM or IgG) and the specific antigen they are associated with. Note that there are other types of antibodies as well, but I limited this to IgM and IgG.

[eekt in reply to socalgord]

Thanks for that - so there's a Covid-19 IgG....is there a specific SLE IgG, or is the dsDNA test for all Igs? It's too early for my grey matter for this...but dsDNA is used an indicator of SLE disease activity, but what the test measures is something that's happened....so that something has set a process in motion, sometimes the cytokine storm....so readily-available home Ig testing as a result of all the Covid R&D could mean us lupies could routinely monitor ourselves as easily as using a daily dipstick, and spot a flare on the way well before it kicks off?...maybe I'm dreaming again....more zzzzz's required ! Thank you! xxx

[socalgord in reply to eekt]

There are many, many different IgGs that bind to dsDNA - each person with SLE likely has a unique form. However, as long as they bind to dsDNA they will show positive in the dsDNA test. From everything I have seen and read, the amount of antibodies (titre) is generally not a good marker of disease severity once you are diagnosed. Also, the at home tests you refer to that are being used for COVID19 are more of a yes/no is it there test, and not a quantity test.

[suzannah16]

is this good or bad news? i'm too tired to understand. also read today about CV [have you noticed how handy it is on a laptop that c & v are next to each other? shame about 1 and 9 being at opposite ends] anyway back to what I was thinking I read that they think CV might be spread airborne [ I did wonder about this early on]

another thought I randomly had when being insomniacally awake, do your eyelashes get shorter as you get older? sorry feeling tiredly crazy.

[eekt in reply to suzannah16]

Yes, yes and yes as Matt Hancock would say...my eyelashes are definitely much shorter, but it means when they're ingrowing, they don't poke me in the eye so much! Complete empathy with the tiredly crazy feeling (pretty much every day, yikes, and worse, work doesn't notice!) xxx

[eekt]

It says Maidenhead in the article I think, but it's part of a US Corp? xxx

[KayHimm]

eekt - Thought you would be interested in a dermatologist’s NY Times description of a biopsy of Covid patient’s toe. He said if you were looking at a lupus text book, you couldn’t tell the difference.

XK

[eekt in reply to KayHimm]

Eek, alarming! Thanks Kay! xxx

[KayHimm in reply to eekt]

I think it was less alarming than important to note. It does not surprise me because there are so many inflammatory features of this virus. This chiblains symptom seems to show up in young people.

By the way, it was in The Washington Post, not the Times. Sorry.

I wonder if they will combine one of the biologics that are used in autoimmune disease with the anti-viral that shows some success with Covid treatment.

XK

[eekt in reply to KayHimm]

I hadn't though of lupus toe involvement, hence the alarm, but there isn't a part it doesn't reach (like Covid, it seems)...the clinical trial that started in Glasgow recently is using steroids and HCQ! xxx

[KayHimm in reply to eekt]

Yes, the cytokine storm is really an autoimmune inflammatory reaction. So they are seeing APS and lupus-like reactions. I thought the steroids were disappointing and, in fact, not recommended. Hmm ..

It is reassuring to see how the researchers and clinicians are the only people putting politics aside and working together world-wise.

XK

[eekt in reply to KayHimm]

It's a big positive Kay, even pharmaceutical companies are stepping up and providing free services!

New paper published in Nature has come up with five existing drugs that 'block' Covid - HCQ again and....progesterone!...now isn't that something, oestrogen plays a part in lupus

sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art...

Stay safe xxx

[KayHimm in reply to eekt]

You stay safe too, eekt! Thanks for this. Will take a lot. Xk

[SashaT64]

Do we think there’s any connection here with the shocking BAME stats?

[eekt in reply to SashaT64]

Don't know if analysts or journalists or even the Public Health England inquiry team have thought of that...most articles in the press focus on cultural practices, higher levels of social deprivation...……………….however, the higher incidence correlates with that of lupus: 'highest incidence rates are seen in those of African-Caribbean descent: 31.4/100 000/year, compared with 6.7/100 000/year for those of white European descent.' - from the BSR Guideline

telegraph.co.uk/news/0/bame...

xxx

[Treetop33]

From the article:

"Professor John Newton, who is leading the government’s efforts on testing, said antibody tests for the public could be available as soon as next month or early June.

He said: “We are optimistic that we will have a good antibody test when we need it, which of course is a little later in the progress of the pandemic,” he told the BBC. “Not many people would test positive for an antibody test if we had one now, so antibody tests come a little later.”"

Is he saying that they are waiting for more people to become infected?

[eekt in reply to Treetop33]

Seems that's been the way in the UK since the start...article in The Guardian on Thursday:

theguardian.com/world/2020/... xxx