I have just seen that car parking in all hospitals in Wales has been scrapped.
So NHS Wales can afford to let you park your car free, , but not to refer seriously ill people out of area to get urgent treatment.
Kinda think the priorities have got a bit skewed.
I saw that in the news. I'm scunnered by their priorities.
Agreed.....I think "somebody" should send in the accountants to see what other money is being g spent /squandered on non clinical services.
In an ideal world of course NHS hospital car parking should be free, but not when seriously ill people can't get treatment because of "budgets"
As The Patients' Association have long pointed out, hospital parking charges are in effect a tax on people who use hospitals most i.e. people like us, who have chronic conditions that require long term, multiple and specialist interventions, and their families. NHS Wales should be applauded for sticking with one of the founding principles of the NHS - that its costs should be shared by the whole of society, not disproportionately by the sick or the poor. For the same reason, NHS Wales has been right to abolish prescription charges - which are also a tax on people who are the sickest.
Charging in England has also introduced yet another element of private business into the NHS bureaucracy- as more resources need to be put into contract tendering, monitoring and management processes. More accountants? No thanks!
The fact that there is not enough money in NHS budgets everywhere should be addressed through measures that raise money from the people who are best able to afford it (i.e. through progressive general taxation). As the dire financial plight of many English Health Trusts shows, car park charges will not magically eliminate the chronic under-funding of clinical services.
Just seen this looks as if I'm replying to myself...even though I clicked on Reply to whisperit!!!
Hey don't shoot the messenger......I was merely emphasising that " people like us" ...in Wales ......are being denied any referrals out of area to deal with serious Lupus symptoms because there are no experienced Lupus Consultants in Wales who can treat them. ...& no money available to employ one/some.
Maybe I should have used the word Auditor rather that Accountant.I'm sure the people in Merthyr Tydfil sitting looking at the £700k unused helicopter pad at the Prince Charles Hospital would like to know how so much money was invested without sufficient attention to the specification needed. Maybe a new bean counter could help?
Car parking charges are onerous , but I think money to treat people needing urgent clinical services not available in Wales should be seen as a priority over free car parking. That is my feeling....I'm not starting a march......just what I feel.
I'm not advocating taking away this move, it's done.....simply that the money available to NHS Wales should be allocated on clinical need...not as a vote catcher.
In NHS England, people with Cancers , AI disease & those who have to attend for long hours of chemo/RT/ infusions are granted Free Parking...I personally benefitted from 6 weeks free parking whilst having RT. I don't know if that was available in Wales prior to this move.
Re Prescriptions. In England for £10 per month or £104 pa (rough figures) you can get as many prescriptions as you need. If you are on certain Benefits even that charge is scrapped & scrips are free. I think that is quite fair. I understand both the Welsh & Scottish NHS with their free prescriptions & now free parking are in quite dire financial straights , meaning many really sick deserving people remain untreated.
But as you say to ensure we keep the NHS free at the point of use politicians have got to realise putting up NI/Income Tax will not mean they will lose their seats in Parliament ...the majority of people I speak to ..mostly retired pensioners so not wealthy.....agree a penny on income tax for the next few years would go some way to aid funding of the NHS. In fact a lot of pensioners don't pay income tax so they wouldn't be affected at all & everyone in England over 60 already get free prescriptions.
But until someone takes the bull by the horns & gets a grip, things will muddle on as is.
Let,s please not start a marathon " he said/she said" on this. I just thought people would be interested in the way NHS Wales has decided to apply their cash allocation.
No worries. I don't need to have an argument about it. Just wanted to add my own perspective x
I’m of same view as Whisperit from perspective of one who has to pay £2.30 to park at our hospital 24/7. You do get 4 hours but if it’s just a follow up physio or OT appointment then this is a lot to pay - especially if you’re a chronic patient under lots of specialisms like me.
People do sometimes pass their tickets on if they still have a few hours left - but there are warnings about cameras and fines to prevent this happening everywhere.
Often there is a long car queue as well which feels like a double insult - so I usually end up arriving either extremely early or scarily late.
I should add that, if you do get there too early to avoid parking stress - the two hospital cafes (one takeaway only) only have the unhealthiest ranges of food I think I’ve seen anywhere - no salads or gluten free options or dairy free milk either.
Free prescriptions here in Scotland are a godsend and I always buy my own Paracetamol and antihistamine. I doubt many healthy working people bother going to GP just to get it free.
They do if they get free prescriptions though.......my cousin is a GP in Worcs & she says it is really difficult to make some people buy their own Paracetamol.
It’s so cheap to buy that it should be a case of if you want free prescriptions it can only be for prescription only meds. There are always common sensical ways to say no surely?!
Half my reply disappeared TT...I was saying £2.30 for four hours would be considered a dream ticket in London. Most London hospitals don't have their own carparks and you have to pay £1 for 15 minutes for street parking (not NHS but the only choice).
Well most people where I live can’t even afford to visit London let alone live there! And there is street parking and an excellent public transport system in London so I don’t think this is an argument that can be applied equally to Welsh or Scottish hospitals.
And for what it’s worth I don’t think patients living in distant places who are under the relevant NHS specialists should be sent to specialists in London at the tax payer’s expense. And I certainly don’t think I should be paying £2.30 for my parking so that this can happen.
Rather I think that the specialists in more remote parts of the U.K. should be compelled/ expected to work collaboratively with the specialists in London/ other centres around the world by telemedicine/ video conferencing for health, and the specialists attending conferences to learn more. To me this seems the most egalitarian and economically sensible way for knowledge about Lupus and Sjögren’s and other rare rheumatic diseases to be disseminated effectively.
After all many with rare diseases aren’t well or fit enough to trek far. And in this digital age it should be possible for healthcare to be delivered very effectively at a distance for all but the very rarest and most life threatening of conditions.
And I think I’m in a good position to make this point as a born and bred Londoner who lived for many years in a remote Scottish island group. It was my choice to live and raise my family there and my choice to leave when my health started to plumet. While still living there, (mis)diagnosed with RA, I saw my rheumatologist once or twice a year. But several times in between I saw him via telemedicine/ video with a trained physio examining me at his behest.
I don’t think this would have worked very well for Sjögren’s, Lupus, Scleroderma or Vasculitis - but it was only used as an adjunct - which is a good thing. I got a one off NHS second opinion from a professor on the same mainland hospital as my rheum worked. I never get examined at all by the CTD doctors now so, to be honest, I’m not sure I couldn’t get as much out of a Skype consultation and save myself the parking stress and £2.30 it costs each time I have to visit the hospital.
The only reason I think Wendy is an exception to this is because she currently isn’t seen by rheumatology at all and there seems to be no offer of shared/ collaborative care on the table for her at all.
These handsomely paid specialists in areas like Pembrokeshire should be contractually obliged by area health boards to work very closely with the specialists in each field, such as those at the London Lupus Centre and Addenbrookes, for the sake of all patients under their care - not just those well enough to travel. And if they can’t or won’t then this should be considered where contract renewals are concerned.
By the same token TT a lot people in many of areas of London can't afford to visit Scotland.....in fact they can't even afford a day trip to Brighton. A good proportion of them have no worries about parking charges either as they can't afford a car. Don't believe the average Londoner lives in the Million£ properties we see on TV & in the press, they are mostly owned by people who don't live in London, often have never even been there.
Believe be me as an ex nurse I can assure you doctors around the UK regularly confer with specialists in their field around the world, not just in London or Edinburgh.
I don't know anything about the Scottish Health Service, but I would imagine Consultants there are the same as those in London & give their time for free, consulting with more junior doctors giving them the benefit of their experience. However trying to compel highly trained clinicians would have only one effect..a brain drain so enormous we'd all end up seeing the Vet. We are already losing too many of our well trained young doctors to jobs in exciting new hospitals in far off countries.
Unfortunately among the handsomely paid specialists you mention in Pembrokeshire there doesn't appear to be a suitably qualified rheumatologist, & there is certainly no Lupus Consultant who can treat the Group of Lupus patients in Wales who desperately need correct diagnosis & treatment. The sad truth is that offers have been made for Lupus treatment in Wales,but NHS Wales seem to have refused to allow it to flourish.
I for one would be perfectly happy for a portion my 40+ years of income Tax & NI contributions to go towards getting treatment for anyone in the UK who needs care...for Lupus or in fact anything that was not available in their local area.
However I fear until someone with vision & authority decides to get serious about reorganising the whole NHS, it will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis.
I think my point about hospitals in rural areas needing free car parking still stands AC. London has a vast and efficient public transport system - that’s the point.
And I completely disagree that hospitals and researchers are communicating with each other as they should be. There are too many egos at work and due to the shortage of consultants nationally the ones that are in place don’t have to be any good in order to keep their jobs.
I agree that at least one of the rheumies in Pembrokeshire should have a special interest in Lupus. And hopefully the lobbying and petition will help that to become the case soon.
But would you say the same about Sjögren’s - the second most common rheumatic disease to RA apparently and just as serious as the others? If yes then we are in trouble all around the UK because there’s only a small handful of Sjögren’s specialists here. I saw one of these last year privately, giving my NHS doctors copies of her letter - which helped me somewhat. But to be honest they are still at an impasse on my case and so would she be too I think. One person’s great doctor is another’s nemesis. The will to help the individual patient by doing the research and seeking advice just isn’t always there.
Similarly with Lupus no one person with Sjögren’s presents with exactly the same way. And this is why the rarer diseases do need specialist centres of excellence, often in larger cities, so that these rheumatologists can focus more closely on one disease.
But the good general rheumatologist should be willing to confer with the Lupus specialists on their patient’s diagnosis and treatment and be willing to take their advice on board from a geographical distance.
So if this isn’t happening, as it clearly isn’t, then I can only assume it’s down to the arrogance of these general rheumatologists for not being willing to seek advice from those with greater expertise, often further afield.
But we can at least agree on your last comment, that this crisis is not going to be resolved without a very radical shake up.
I think that irritation is about to be dealt with. Things like Paracetamol, toothpaste, shampoo, gluten free foods( for non coeliacs ) sun lotion, are going onto a list of non prescribables......together with other stuff I can't recall.
At my surgery they have been saying you can get Paracetamol in Boots, for a long time........but that still doesn't stop those who think they are "entitled" from trying & taking up consultation time.
I am old, but I don't think that entitles me to anything more than young people who work hard but need prescription drugs. Thankfully I was healthy until in my fifties....& then I bought the monthly prescription card.
I agree ...no space in hospital carparks. And I really do think you should be allowed to take a ticket and pay when you leave for the time you've been there. It's just a money making exercise to make you pay for a certain period of time, then if the doctor is late , you overstay the time you have paid & end up with a penalty fine.
Hi, I just wanted to say that people sometimes forget that parking changes at hospitals are not only a tax on the sick, but also on those who care for them, day in day out.
Also parking has now become free in all hospitals in Wales now because their contracts by private companies have ended, it was these companies collecting the money and managing the car parks. The health trusts are now managing these car parks themselves.
Yes you are right. I had an aunt in her 90's in Hospita & I often spent a lot to see her...i'd pay for an hour...she'd fall asleep after ten minutes , I'd go for a drive, then go back & pay again....she'd fall asleep again....I often spent £5 playing that little game.
Our local hospital (inEngland) has recently handed over the running of their car parks to a private company ......who now charge far more than the hospital charged......not sure if it's win/lose for the hospital. When I attend OP now I park in a local authority car park that gives the first hour free.....but it is a 10 minute walk to the hospital & a lot of people couldn't manage that.
As has been said many times - until somebody takes the NHS in hand nothing will change.
Ah yes hospital visiting can be an expensive hobby, but I was referring the the many doctors, nurses and all the other disaplins that were also paying this private company for the privilege of working in the hospital. Not just a tax on the sick and their visitors but also on the staff.
I'm lucky that in cardiff we do at least have plenty of Rheumatologists to choose from over two hospital sites, although I was very sad when my previous one moved to Swansea, the more rural areas however are never going to have a specialist in every disease, but prevision must be made for people to seek expert help elsewhere.
Yes I can't believe the kicking & screaming about out of area referrals. Ok for non urgent conditions watch the pennies........but?
Our nurses have got organised ....they car share & only need to park one car at £15 for 7 days.....as they say it's cheaper than the bus that way. Luckily they get their shifts a month in advance.....
& if there is a hiccup it's not really the end of the world.
I really admire them for bucking the system!
Hospital parking is also free in Ireland & Scotland. We are the only Brits who pay for the privilege !
Not so I’m afraid - I’m in Scotland and I have to pay to park at my hospital.
But we seem to have better clinical access don't we?
I wasn't going to continue on this theme, but I spoke to a friend whose child has Leukaemia & she kinda put her finger on it....how would she feel if on being told her child had a life threatening condition & there was "a doctor out of area who could treat/cure her, but now we have free parking & free prescriptions (remember to save people £10 pm not£8 odd for each prescription) she can't see that doctor because the budget is spent?"
I don't know if that is actually accurate as I have no idea how many mini budgets make up the whole, nor how they are allocated.
But it sure sounds something like that is happening in Wales....& maybe Scotland...but I thought TT said she pays to park in Scotland?
Yes our prescription charges are modest when we see what we they would cost abroad. I paid £27 in Capetown for one month's supply of my BP meds when I had meds in similar boxes & packed two of the same! Lord knows what they would cost in USA. My eyes water when I see what friends inUSA pay for drugs.
I agree the NHS needs better funding ....wish someone could start thinking outside "the box".
I honestly can't understand how "they" decide the priorities ...after all it's. National Health Service .......it shouldn't be treated as if "offering freebies will get us re elected"....but that's what it looks like.
This is a very interesting debate. The devolved NHS system has created a lot of unintended consequences (or perhaps they were intended!).
Wales and England have the longest border. Free prescriptions have resulted in pharmacies just over the border in England closing. Wales has the highest level of wasted medicines in the UK. In North Wales it is vey difficult to park because folk use them for safe parking for car sharing!
During the doctors strike which didn’t involve Wales patients didn’t attend appointments assuming they were on strike!
Locums now receive less pay in Wales than England. So an overseas appointment joins Wrexham; see the pay scales and moves to the Chester hospital. He doesn’t need new accommodation!
Interesting times!
Yes interesting times indeed, but I reckon all this devolution is Big Fish: Little Fish!
Those pushing for devolution looked forward to being Big Fish in Little Pool....instead of the way they were ie Little Fish in Big Pool.
Unfortunately they appear to have kept their Little Fish mentality...& just look where it has got us!
Cynical I know.....but I believe a lot of those Little Fish doing the pushing now have No Pool at all- having shown they really had no comprehension of the task they had taken on.
But reversing the decisions made is probably a lost cause ...& sick people are bearing the brunt.
Yes and the little fish get paid large salaries for organising the chaos!
I ve in Wales and Park for free at my local hospitals, get free prescriptions and my consultants liase with other consultants outside of Wales and im the last year I have had referrals to Birmingham, London and Nottingham. I can t praise my rheumatologist, ophthalmologist and dermatologist who have worked tirelessly together to help control my flares.
Try reading the horror Wendy39 & her fellow Lupus patients on this & the Lupus site are living through in Pembrokeshire. I don't think "Nightmare " is too stromg a word to describe the stress they are suffering.
That is why I,& I'm sure others on this site, are showing such concern about the conditions in NHSWales.
Maybe you know why in your area of Wales patients can be referred out of area, but Pembroke refuses?
No one is getting at Wales per se...just the position Pembroke is taking.
I was merely stating the position I am in.
You are indeed fortunate......long may it continue.
Do you have any idea why Pembrokeshire is so different?
It seems unbelievable in the 21st century that Welsh residents in Pembs with a very serious health condition are denied access to NHS England, where there are Consultants willing to see them, because officials don't seem to understand once the expertise of the Rheumatologists available has been exhausted, these people are virtually abandoned to their own devises.
It’s because people forget that Wales doesn’t end at the M4. I’m lucky, unlike poor Wendy I still have my rheumy and she is fab but Hywel Dda have wasted so much money that specialists don’t want to come here when they can ear Quadruple the money elsewhere xx
It's interesting, I have a small GP surgery here in cardiff, I can always get to see a doctor, practice nurse and get my bloods done each month.
My daughter's live in stroud and molesey (surrey)
Daughter in stroud has had to drop off urine samples and then been given a prescription for antibiotics with out being seen, and in one case was given something that she has had a reaction to in the past!
Daughter in London, has never actually met her GP, or any other doctor in the practice, she only ever gets to see a practice nurse, even when she was very poorly with shingles, and in January she was denied an appointment for her asthma and ended up in A&E.
That would never happen at my surgery, yet in the rural areas there very poor provision for some diseases.
I wish we could just take the best provision and practice for across the uk and have it everywhere.
That sounds about par for the course in NHS England I'm afraid.
If I wanted to see a GP I would right now have a 23 day wait.
I could get a 5 minute emergency appoinment & probably see a young locum who can't work out how turn turn on his computer.....let alone find my file & understand it.
NHS everywhere is failing badly, but as has been said - unless somebody gets a grip of it it will soon no longer exist .....it almost seems to have got past the state of throwing more money at it having any effect.,
The car parks in South Wales were run by private companies so no or very little money was going to the actual hospital. I wouldn’t mind paying if the money went back into the hospital. Annoyingly my nearest hospital got rid of the WRVS coffee shops and replaced it with Costa. And even though I’m surrounded by 2 LNG gas terminals and an oil refinery that in the last 25 years has had 2 major explosions, one with 4 fatalities, they are looking at downgrading it. I don’t go when I fall as it is now because I don’t like wasting staff time but I’m less likely to go if I have to travel 40 minutes xxx
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