I've been looking at LCHF recipes which include collagen powder as an ingredient. I googled that to find out what it is. The answer scared me but then I read that bone broth has a useful supply of collagen. Does anyone take collagen powder or make bone broth? If so, how?
Bone broth vs collagen powder - Low-Carb High-Fat...
Bone broth vs collagen powder
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ChubbieChops
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How do I make bone broth? Bones, roast then throw in a stock pot for a few days.
Or was there another aspect of the question I missed?
Detail really. But it's fine thanks. I'll Google it
I didn't want to give huge detail in case that wasn't what you are looking for.
I keep a bag in my freezer, and put in aromatic scraps like tops of celery and carrots and onion/garlic peels. Also any non-scuzzy bones, mostly poultry.
Stock making: as Bodg visited my local, hipstery Artisan butcher, and come away with several kilograms of bones for free. So far lamb and beef, but he has chicken sometimes too. And pork presumably. 🤔 lard!
Chicken/turkey: just put bones in a stock pot with just enough water to cover, a handful of sea salt and bring to the boil. Skim, then add aromatics, eg veggies from bag. May add a roughly chopped onion or some garlic if there are not enough. Add a couple of bay leaves, dozen or so pepper corns, dried herbs, splash of vinegar. Find a setting that keeps it on a nice low simmer and leave it for 12 hours with a lid on. Check water level occasionally. After 12 hours the bones will crumble in your hands, so they have given up all they have to offer. Strain, refrigerate and then skim or strain again to remove fat. You don't want chicken fat that has been boiling that long. Then use, freeze or put it back on the stove to boil down and concentrated it, then freeze in ice cube trays. Saves on storage, and you just add water along with the ice cubes.
Stock only lasts a few days in the fridge. Use it or freeze it. There is nothing sadder than to have to bin hard made stock because you neglected it.
Beef stock much the same, except roast the bones for an hour or so in a hot oven first, and cook a lot longer. I have only done one batch so far, and cooked it for days (not sure, 2 or 3 I think) and it was so thick with gelatine that it set in the fridge. It stood proud on a table spoon, like a red current jelly.
I also rendered a 1/2 litre of so of tallow from the beef. I am trying cautiously to use that in cooking.
healthunlocked.com/lchf-die...
(yeah, it was a portion of the beef stock I had to discard 😔)
Wow, that's fantastic, thank you so much! All hints and tips gratefully received and noted 😊😊😊
Perhaps try some chicken broth too? Not so much collagen but a bit quicker to make.
Yes thanks, I do already make it from chicken. Just hadn't twigged that that is bone broth!
Ah, yes. Bone broth is stock, with a hipsterised name. Maybe cooked a little longer, and I always was going for flavour not for gelatine, but it's basically the same thing.
😂 I just spent time telling you how to make stock. Doh! I will go on to teach my nanna how to suck eggs.
I found this yesterday- it looks amazing m.youtube.com/watch?v=wgCTx...
It also looks like it demands more physical strength than I have at present with my broken wrist so the plan is to show my husband the video and let him have a go.
Oh duh, I am daft! Hadn't twigged that the gelatinous goo is basically bone broth! I have some chicken goo in the freezer which I was planning to use to make a chicken soup with tomorrow. Many thanks for the link 🤗
That's not the me!
(she's saying much the same things I just typed above)
Strength? Lifting the pot?
Use a slotted spoon, chopsticks or tongs to remove the chicken, and then a ladle or mug to scoop up the stock. No need to pick up the pot until it's nearly empty.
I will try this this, thanks! My chicken stock was not nearly as gelatinous as the beef stock, but the bones were done.
Doh sorry, I got the bone broth mixed up with a soup recipe I’m about to make today.
I broke both bones in my wrist recently one was really out of place and had to be manipulated. I got the cast off the other day but it’s so weak and still painful, I’ve got Dupytrens Contracture in my other hand which makes things more difficult so I can’t do much at the moment.
I’ve just bought ingredients for an amazing looking soup that is done in the oven It is cooked in a casserole in the oven and the casserole I’ll use is cast iron so I’ll need someone to get that out. Can’t chop veg either which is a pain as I haven’t got any frozen veggie bits as shown in the video, I liked that idea.
In the mean time I need a decent sized crock pot . Will get there in the end though
Yeah so sorry to hear about your wrist. I broke a bone just above the wrist in a skiing accident 3 years ago. Needed an op to have pins fitted to keep it in place, so you have all my sympathies. But on the bright side, do keep the other half busy cooking 
Also, my hand has now fully recovered, but do work at the physio exercises which were very painful at the beginning.
No worries about the recipe confusion - your post made me realise that really I did know what bone broth was - just I called it by a different name! I need a new crock pot too! The broth will be great for you - supposed to aid healing 
Staff kept mentioning an op similar to yours but I’m hoping I’ve managed to avoid that I hope.My other half has been amazing but it would’ve nice to make my ‘oven soup’ and my bone broth.
I’ve got an exercise sheet with instructions to do them every hour which I’ve been doing. People who don’t do their physio don’t do as well as they could.
I have realised that the line drawings are probably what I’m aiming for rather than what I’m expected to do at the moment.
Are you skiing again?
You'll have plenty of time to make your own broths and oven soups (intrigued by that!) when you recover.
For the first couple of weeks, I found the exercises very frustrating as I'd be able to get my fingers closer together after doing the exercises. But then when I came back to do them again, they would be really stiff and I'd be back to where I had started from. When I got the plaster off (in plaster for 8 weeks as the op was after 2 weeks so had another 2 weeks in plaster), my hand was very painful and stiff but only for a few days. And yes, the diagrams are an aspiration at the beginning.
No, I did a really good job when I fell - damaged an already rubbish knee which culminated in my having a knee replacement last April so I decided, at the age of 67, to hang up my skis. I'd be scared now if I fell 
dailymail.co.uk/home/you/ar...
Gosh, six weeks was bad enough! My first plaster was left untouched for two weeks - they said they didn’t want to disturb it when it had been manipulated. It wasn’t x rayed when they finally took it off so I’m hoping it’s ok under the skin and things are what are to be expected.
I skied in my late teens / twenties, I met my husband skiing - he jokes he was always picking me up off the ground - he probably was. Great to still be skiing at 67 but I don’t blame you for stopping, you don’t want to ruin the new knees.
oh yummy - that soup looks deelish. Have made a note of it
Mine was x-rayed after we got home from Austria where it had been manipulated - owwweeee as you know. It was fine and they x-rayed it again the following week when they found the bone had slipped so they decided to operate. Hence the 8 weeks in plaster. 6 weeks in plaster should be fine - it's weak and painful because the muscles, tendons etc. round a joint have been immobile. Hopefully it will start to improve very soon. How did you break it?
Remember if you make that soup, put all the veggie trimmings in the freezer for stock!
I am amused how this discussion as moved from cooking bones to breaking them.
Error, yes we got a bit sidetracked! And yes, veg trimmings always end up in soup and now in broth (which in my muddled) is much the same thing. 🤪
My first batch is cooking away nicely right now. Hadn’t thought about the need for salt, be interesting to see how I find it as I tend not to use much salt. The chicken is earmarked for a curry so that should make up for lack of salt during the cooking process.
I like salt on chicken, but I don't think it's essential normally. But this chicken has had a lot of the flavour leached out of it by into the water, so the salt would have put some of it back.
That won't matter much in a curry, but it's unappealing as a simple snack on it's own.l
I took mine out of the water after only 6 hours because it was already falling apart by then. 8 hours would have been too long. I returned all the bones and the skin to the pot to make a second batch. That's cooling now.
So you use bones a second time to make a new batch? Wow. How many times can you reuse carcases and bones?
I don't normally. I am just following that video.
Edit: ie this video
2nd answer: you can only use chicken bones once in my experience. After 12 or so hours they are crumbling. Almost all the nutrients are extracted. You can reuse the bones after boiling chicken, however, because the bones are still very much intact. I did throw in a couple of raw thigh bones from my freezer.
I have read you can get a second, less flavoursome stock from beef and lamb bones, but as that takes fuel, the local butcher is literally throwing bones away, and my local council handles food waste separately so the bones aren't going to landfill, reusing the bones does not seem environmentally sound compared to making a much richer stock from fresh bones.
Oh, and the eggshells were also crumbling at the end of the stock making, so minerals from them ended up in the stock. I won't be binning eggshells again!
Yes, really fascinating video!! Thanks for sharing
It's a great video! Fruitandnutcase shared it up thread, and I used it to make my most recent batch of stock.
Family was here all last week so I haven't been on for nearly2 weeks. I guess your broth is but a memory now. How was it?
It was good. We think we put too much chicken in so we ended up making several curries, we ate one right away and froze the rest in case we end up with restrictions in the near future and also too many veg.
I had the broth during the week then made some into lentil soup. That was weird because when it cooled it was like lentil jelly. Bone broth isn’t like regular stock! The lentil soup was good though, it went to liquid when heated.
This week I bought a smaller whole chicken and cooked it in my crock pot with veg and that worked out well. Not so much cooked chicken to deal with but the same type of stock so I’ll stick with that in future and yes, it is very bland - even I who never salts food got the salt out.
It all sounds delicious. Now that the family has gone, I am ready to start experimenting with bones. Are you cooking the whole chicken for the broth? I have only ever used the carcase, giblets etc. I make lentil soup from stock I get after boiling/simmering a ham hock. That goes jelly like too when it cools. Really delicious soup 
I wonder if you would get a similar result with just the skin and bones in the stock pot, and reserving the meat to cook in a different way. I think the gelatine comes largely from the skin and skeleton. The stock would be a little less tasty, but seeing that taste has been leached from the chicken meat, that might be worth losing to enjoy the meat more.
I used some of my meat to make a chicken and mushroom casserole in cream sauce. That was pretty tasty, but that might have been because I included some of the stock
That's what I've always done. After I roast a chicken, I strip the remaining bits of meat from the carcase (there is never any skin left - far too delicious!) Then I simmer it for ages to get a stock. Put the bits of meat back in and use that as the basis for a chicken broth
It's not the same, because you ate the skin. My theory is that the collagen mostly comes from the skin, and you will only get that if you boil raw skin.
However, roasting and then eating the skin will still give you that collagen, in a tastier 😋 form. And make sure you make the gravy from the pan juices, to get any gelatine that might be there.
Oh my goodness, I never waste any pan juices. I pour veg water into the roasting pan and stir it round and round to get them all into the gravy, fat and all. Hmmm, I feel a Sunday roast coming on!!
I made this!
I think she is wrong about 2 things.
1) It needs salt! Sure, you can add salt to the stock later, but chicken that has been boiled for 8 hours in unsalted water is pretty tasteless!
2) the extra collagen isn't from the bones, it's from the skin.
Just deciding what to do with the fat on my first batch. It's quite tasty, so I may leave it in with broth.
Mmmm, I love seeing little beads of fat floating on the top of a soup
Beads of fat are fine, just eat them. But a batch of stock has hundreds of grams of fat. I need to decide what to do with them.
Oh I do eat it! Shame you can't spread it on bread like dripping!!
It's not the fat itself, but Google suggested it might be more prone to oxidation than beef tallow, and thus not healthy after hours of boiling. So I will happily enjoy schmaltz from a freshly cooked chicken, but not from a pot that has been simmering for hours and hours. After the stock had cooled thoroughly, I ran a strainer through it and collected the bulk of the fat and reluctantly put it in my food waste bin.
Sorry, haven't been on for nearly 2 weeks as family was here. I'm puzzled as to why it would be oxidated or oxidized after boiling. Surely the temperature wouldn't be high enough?
Oxidisation doesn't require extreme temperatures. Iron can rust in the Arctic, and I have had butter go rancid in the fridge.
I think it's possible that slow simmering of a fat while exposed to air for hours and hours could cause oxidation. I decided the quantity and quality of the fat made me ok with discarding it. Also, I didn't invest in organic chicken, and fat can accumulate toxins, so again, I wasn't that upset to discard it.
I won't be boiling chicken again for 6 hours, so it's not an on going problem.
That's true. Sounds a wise decision
I have made it by getting free bones from my butcher. Then roasted them (can't remember how long). Then put them in slow cooker overnight.
Yes, I must chat with my butcher. Thanks.
Ah, if you have a butcher, you are golden. My local guy is giving them to me, and he didn't know me at all. The first time I popped in, just before closing, he insisted I take 4kg with me. When I said my bag wasn't big enough, he gave me a bag (paper, so no 5p involved). I had to go to TK Maxx on the way home as it was way more bones than even my "big" stock pot could handle.
I imagine he does more for his regulars.
(I try to spend money there, too. Last time he had no bones, so I asked for liver. He said "I've only got the ends left" and wouldn't charge me for them. I must treasure him!)
He sounds a star. My butcher is a Kiwi - his name for himself. He's brilliant. Suggests best ways to cook different cuts so I'm sure he will have ideas for broths. Should have thought to go to him. Many thanks again for your help
I was just looking at my food waste, and thought "I should put egg shells in my bone broth!" I googled it, and it's a thing! So adding all my shells to my veggie bag in the freezer.
Aren't egg shells used to clarify consommé or am I dreaming?
I don't know, but the shells crumbled at the end, so they must have added some calcium.
Have you acquired bones yet?
Nope I totally forgot. 🤬 We were discussing coronavirus and a woman he had seen in a supermarket whose trolley was piled high with kitchen roll. He said, 'That will block your drains!! And anyway, it's a respiratory disease, not diarrhoea!'
Why do we have to roast the beef bones first?
ChubbieChops• in reply to
I have no idea. Maybe it improves the flavour? Maybe it helps extract the collagen?
Subtle_badger• in reply to
Yup. Cc has it right. It's for flavour.
• in reply toSubtle_badger
Thank you!
You inspired me to do a search on collagen. I found this article:
healthline.com/nutrition/co...
Great thread! Thanks so much!
Interesting article. I'm looking forward to being really slim AND young and beautiful again!!! Haha! If only...
ChubbieChops, I researched collagen after reading this and must report the best night sleep last night. I slept 6 hours straight without the oft-waking pain issue and fell asleep for another 90 minutes. straight
I purchased powder PURE COLLAGEN by GenesisToday powder, sugar-free, gluten-free from grass fed bovine. Mixed into water, it was tolerable and tasted like thin milk. I'll add it to a smoothie in a bit.
This will be a staple in my diet of the better sleep continues.
Many thanks!
Fantastic! Long may that effect last!
Well, it's 3:44 and I've been up at my usual 3 a.m. However, I am so grateful for 2nights sleep! And, I didn't take my potassium and magnesium supplements at bedtime. Perhaps all 3 together is the magic elixir? Tonight's another opp to try! 🤗🤗🤗 Many thanks, CC!
Hope that works for you x
I would assume last night was a coincidence or placebo effect. I assume the action of collagen would be to build up your worn down connective tissues. That can't happen overnight.
Potassium and magnesium are also needed for joint health, bones and muscles (and probably everything else). I couldn't imagine collagen would remove the need for them.
I hope it does give you some relief.
I never knew about the sleeping properties of collagen until I looked it up based on CC post. After reading claims I searched for sleep studies with collagen and the NIH, Penn State, etc has evidence it does help with sleep disorders. (I woke up at 3:15 for years, I think I have a sleep disorder. )
Anyway, it could be a Godsend for many. I'm game to try it.
Thank you, Subtle_badger. You are so lovely.
Oh, wow! I didn't understand that. I assumed you meant that pain relief helped you sleep.
I am often awake a 3.44am. Time to dip into my ridiculous cache of bone broth.
Goodness, I have to include my reaction to the purchased bovine collagen powder supplement so others can be aware and careful.
Day 1 - 10 mg of Collagen powder in a.m. and p.m. I felt a bit like a cold coming on, took a zyrtec. Slept really well!
Day 2 - 10 mg of Collagen in a.m. and p.m. A bit sniffly, noticed left ankle about double in circumference. ( chalked it up to my arthritis edema). Very tired and took rare nap. Slept well again.
Day 3 - 10 mg of Collagen in a.m. And p.m. Now, in the morning, my thighs are very swollen, severe pain in my right knee, hands swelling. Still feel like a cold coming on. Poor sleep as my pain kept waking me up. Why am I feeling so badly?
Day 4 - My pain is getting so bad I can hardly walk. It feels that I have terrible burns under my skin. I am swollen everywhere and it's getting worse.
Upon further investigation of Collagen, I found this reaction not uncommon in auto-immune diseases and it's really not recommended for to take these powder supplements.
BF ordered in benadryl and Tylenol while I took a Tylenol w codeine. I'm in bed and can't even stand to have a sheet on it hurts so badly.
Tomorrow should tell if it's a collagen reaction. Hopefully, the fluid will start to drop. I had a similar reaction to Aleve a few months ago. The Dr who diagnosed my RA said I was having an allergic reaction and put me on short, heavy dose of prednisone. It cleared up.
THIS why it's easier to fast than eat! Chkl
The natural bone broth made from scratch is the only way to go! ChubbieCheeks, looks like we're cooking bones! Subtle_badger has a new thread which looks yummie!
Btw, I truly believe in collagen from natural, non-bovine sources! 👍
Oh, that's not great. I hope it improves quickly.
So your supposition is it's a beef collagen allergy? My latest stock would be no good to you in that case.
Morning, Subtle_badger. I do believe I had an allergic reaction to the dairy aspect of my collagen. I still feel as thought I burned my muscles but overall see less swelling. I introduce so little new things it had to be the bovine collagen.
Chalking it up to another experiment.
I think your bone broth from lamb would work unless the gelatin is the culprit. I saw that when researching this yesterday, you can have a gelatin allergy.
Onwards, right?
My broth has beef bones as well. Butcher had a mixture.
I am always doubtful about taking supplements. I didn't see any collagen powder in my local health food shop (probably wouldn't have bought it anyway) and I don't buy any food/supplements online as I am so wary about their origin. So definitely, bone broth it is.
I really hope it clears up for you soon. Take care xx
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