I've just been hearing about a test which is underway in Finland, where they are trialling a number of Schizophrenic in-patients on a ketogenic diet:
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...
The primary aim is to see the effects that the clinical trial may have on schizophrenia, but they will also gather information on other areas in the body, such as the effect on gut bacteria and probably cholesterol too.
The results should be published next year, so we will see what the results are.
Interesting stuff - I'll keep an eye on this one. It's not entirely clear, but it sounds as if they're intending to only go 'keto' for a short period, thereafter keeping the patients on standard LCHF.
Finland has been the subject of quite a few dietary experiments because of some unique demographics. One particularly curious observation was a difference in heart disease between ethnically-homogenous populations eating the same diet; I'll see if I can root out the details, because it shows how incredibly difficult it is to do good studies on nutrition.
Yes, the main test period did seem relatively short.
The people that were discussing it (in a podcast) said the current theory is that keto is as detrimental to the gut microbiome as a course of antibiotics, thanks to the lack of fibre (I feel like anyone who discusses keto brings up fibre). I can't see that being true, but we'll have to wait for the results to find out...
They said the biggest benefit of doing a study in this way, is that all food intake is so strictly monitored anyway, so it's less risky than a standard public trial where participants might cheat.
I've noticed most experts discussing the "downsides" of keto have absolutely no clue what it even is. Apart from the fact that virtually nobody ever stays keto for very long, the average low-carb diet is full of leafy vegetables, which are much higher in fibre than rice, pasta, and whatnot. The idea that going "keto" would devastate you gut biome in the same way as a course of antibiotics is just ludicrous; I guess it will change in certain ways, but to suggest that eliminating starchy carbs would cause a mass die-off is just daft., and it's certainly not supported by experiment.
There have been a whole load of interventional studies on low-carb diets which show no harmful effects of low-carb in general terms, but I'm always interested in these studies on cognitive/neurological effects.
I listened to a podcast by a well-known nutritionist who thought keto was all about meat, with maybe 1tbsp of rice a day... I suppose if most people think that's what the diet is, I can see why they think it'll kill the gut!
Exactly. I think the root problem is that mainstream nutritionists have a blind spot regarding fat. To them, it doesn't exist; no healthy diet can include fat, ergo a low-carb diet must be nothing but protein (ie., lean meat). There was an unintentionally-hilarious experiment on "keto" diets which involved feeding the participants nothing but boiled turkey. Unsurprisingly, almost all of the subjects experienced serious side-effects and/or bailed out after a few days. The experimenters took this as proof that "keto" is a silly idea.
I'm shocked and not surprised all at the same time!
Below are the summary and conclusions of an extreme ketogenic diet on two men who were under close watch in medical settings for one year way back in 1929 in Bellevue hospital, NY.
TheAwfulToad, as you may be very well aware before volunteering for this experimentation, Dr. Steffanson and his associate had been on Arctic explorations for 11 years out of which 9 years they had been on meat only diet. When they returned and described their experience, people did not believe one could survive on such diets. Hence the scientific investigation was conducted and they agreed to cooperate fully.
1. Two men lived on an exclusive meat diet for 1 year and a
third man for 10 days. The relative amounts of lean and fat
meat ingested were left to the instinctive choice of the individuals.
2. The protein content varied from 100 to 140 gm., the fat from
200 to 300 gm., the carbohydrate, derived entirely from the meat,
from 7 to 12 gm., and the fuel value from 2000 to 3100 calories.
3. At the end of the year, the subjects were mentally alert,
physically active, and showed no specific physical changes in any
system of the body.
4. During the 1st week, all three men lost weight, due to a
shift in the water content of the body while adjusting itself to the
low carbohydrate diet. Thereafter, their weights remained
practically constant.
5. In the prolonged test, the blood pressure of one man remained
constant; the systolic pressure of the other decreased 20
mm. and the diastolic pressure remained uniform.
6. The control of the bowels was not disturbed while the subjects
were on prescribed meat diet. In one instance, when the
proportion of protein calories in the diet exceeded 40 per cent,
a diarrhoea developed.
7. Vitamin deficiencies did not appear.
8. The total acidity of the urine during the meat diet was increased
to 2 or 3 times that of the acidity on mixed diets and acetonuria
was present throughout the periods of exclusive meat.
9. Urine examinations, determinations of the nitrogenous
constituents of the blood, and kidney function tests revealed no
evidence of kidney damage.
10. While on the meat diet, the men metabolized foodstuffs with
FA: G ratios between 1.9 and 3.0 and excreted from 0.4 to 7.2 gm.
of acetone bodies per day.
11. In these trained subjects, the clinical observations and
laboratory studies gave no evidence that any ill effects had
occurred from the prolonged use of the exclusive meat diet.
Those interested in detailed description and results of the investigation can follow the link below:
jbc.org/content/87/3/651.fu...
This is interesting. It'll be worth seeing test results with more modern testing techniques.
I am not sure I could do a whole year on meat only! Although I know some communities cope quite well with it.
This is not intended as a dietary recommendation. This is an account of scientific studies confirming human have survived and thrived on extreme ketogenic diets where availability of carbohydrate was not there.
I do not know any organisation that is recommending ketogenic diet for general population. In fact, ketogenic diet is used as an initiator of ketosis and then switching to low carb lifestyle for long term health benefit according to individual tolerance to carb.
We are fortunate to have such a variety of foods available. We just have to be responsible in their use.
I wasn't taking it as a diet recommendation, just commenting in passing 
I suspect the two men in this experiment would have eaten a lot of organ meats and the likes, which is something I think current followers of the Carnivore Diet seem to turn their noses up to. I will be a little curious to see how that trend goes.
Yes, you are right! They did eat organ meat including brain. I assume one cannot eat too much organ meat as these can cause vitamins toxicity as they are are too rich in vitamins.
Trend is going to be towards reduced carb and increased healthy fat which can be implemented for vegetarians and non-vegetarians. Consumption of processed foods are likely to drop significantly.
Interesting stuff. Particularly the bits that there were no vitamin deficiencies and the bowl movements.
flo72003
You may find the link below of interest with regard to role of dietary fibre on ketogenic diet:
healthunlocked.com/lchf-die...
I saw the video clip at the time you posted it first. The guy seems knowledgeable and entertaining - I liked the traffic jam comparison.
I agree with him, when he talks about fibre in wheat and bread.
I do not eat bread or rice as they constipates me.
However , if I do not eat lots of vegetables such as cabbage, spinach, tomatoes, celery and so on I am constipate again. If I eat too much cheese I am in trouble. It is true that some vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower can cause bloating, I do not eat much of them. We are all different, so some of his conclusions seemed a bit general.
I reckon people should experiment and work out for themselves what works to keep them regular. As I said, for me eating about 10 portions of vegetables daily is essential.
Also, about gut bacteria. From what I have read, there is evidence that certain type of bacteria is associated with whether a person is slim or fat. Some studies also suggest, that people with more diverse microbiome are slimmer and healthier.
If I am not mistaken, there was a study carried out in Israel. Based on it, they are able to created a diet which reflects a person's microbiome. The idea was that while eating grapes or chocolate might be beneficial for one person, but might make another one fat.
Sounds interesting.
I cannot quite remember, but wasn't there studies about keto diet being beneficial also for people with epilepsy?
Yes, I think it's actually a recommended treatment protocol by some hospitals, usually if medicine doesn't work.
I've heard it's also recommended for some types of cancer, but I don't know which ones...
There is some information in Michael Mosley book "The fast 800" how fasting enhance effect of chemotherapy when treating cancer. The idea is that while fasting, healthy cells get into "non-growth mode", while cancel cells keep growing out of control which makes them more vulnerable and enhance the treatment.
Fasting and keto are related I a way, as both are trying to "flip the metabolic switch" (as Dr Mosley puts it in his book) - once all glycogen reserves are depleted the body has to switch to fat-burning mode. So in a way, keto might be beneficial when treating cancer patients.
It was actually a mainstream treatment for epilepsy before effective drugs were available. Same for diabetes.
Thank you. I was not sure. I remember reading something about it.
Morning Cooper27 thank you very much for the post very interesting as my son has the illness paranoia schizophrenia it has a particular interest to me. I would love to follow this up and find out the results next year. If i lived close to my son i would now be keeping a check on his diet myself and try to encourage him to start to slowly cut down on carbs but as i am in Spain and my son is in England will prove to be difficult. I am sure he eats mostly junk food.
I hope the study comes up with some findings that may benefit your son!
This will be really good for people with schizophrenia im quite excited once my son was diagnosed was difficult and you find a way to come to terms and say to yourself well this is what it is get on with it nothings going to change, to think there may be a glimmer of hope is exciting.
I think if you can know there's something you can do for yourself, rather than just hoping some doctor somewhere hits on the right treatment, it's very empowering, relieving and exciting!
The results will be out in about 15 months, I hope it passes quickly!
Beatingthis
Chronic Schizophrenia Put Into Remission Without Medication
You may find the link below useful. It is always a good idea to work with a medical professional while following ketogenic diet for serious conditions like schizophrenia.
psychologytoday.com/gb/blog...
Praveen55 Thank You very much for the article very interesting
Ivor Cummins posted an interesting conversation between two medical specialists that backs this up. youtu.be/0CGNZbdbpMU sound quality is not great though.
If you can convince him to try it, I don't really see any need to get your doctor involved (as long as your son continues with whatever medical supervision he has, of course). There are no known health issues associated with a ketogenic diet, so if you'd like to run an n=1 experiment, it has no real downsides. I suppose the only genuine risk is that it may precipitate a psychotic episode, but this is purely a hypothetical possibility - I can't find anything in the literature suggesting that this might actually happen. In fact googling the phrase "ketogenic diet causing psychotic episode" or "...schizophrenia" turns up only encouraging results.
Bear in mind that whatever the mainstream research shows, it won't necessarily tell you anything about what keto might do for your son specifically. Very few medical interventions are 100% successful. Keto diets for epilepsy, IIRC, yield a worthwhile improvement for about 50% of patients ... but there's no way of knowing which 50%. That is, at an individual level, you can't predict who might benefit and who might not.
So, I'd just give it a go, and see what happens
There are some studies showing that going gluten free can often be of some benefit. Might be an introduction to trying a ketogenic diet?
Purple keto rolls???
Switching to LCHF from keto
Simple Keto Meal Plans?