warfarin courses britel bones and ostporosis

[ainsleytidd]

I read a report done in holand and America, stating a fit 40 year old male taking warfarin for one year has a 63% higher chance of getting brital bone, when I put this to my GP asking him as someone on warfarin for over 6 years he said yes you are defo going to get it. has anyone else heard this and what are the long term health implications for warfarin users?

[MaryF Administrator]

Patients on long term Warfarin therapy are usually monitored, it is essential to keep the vitamin D and calcium at the right level and also to take regular exercise where possible. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/203...

MaryF

[MaryF Administrator]

Out of interest who has diagnosed you with Hughes Syndrome/APS? MaryF

[tim47]

Well I wasn't a fit 40 year old when I started warfarin over 40 years ago , (I was younger though ) and so far brittle bone has evaded me- and given my luck in the past I doubt I am one of the lucky 37 per cent. The only thing about warfarin that worries me is that anyone might want me off it. It isn't everybody's cup of tea but it's a no brainier for me as it does what it is supposed to and not too much it shouldn't.

[Lure2 in reply to tim47]

I do agree with you tim47. After 40 years you know what you are talking of.

Best wishes from Kerstin in Stockholm

[ainsleytidd in reply to tim47]

thanks for that, it is one thing that doctors do seem to miss the point on, we are not machines we are individuals what works for one person is not guaranteed to work for another.one other thing that has got my attention is the connection between warfarin and prolonged hot weather, this would suggest depending what area of the world you are in ie hot or cold country the interaction will be different?

[Lure2]

Well said what you said anyhow!

Kerstin

[ebulfin]

As a personal opinion I feel many patients (and those treating them) are still staying away from Vitamin K rich foods (usually just referred to as leafy green vegetables by the INR clinics and lesser educated doctors) as they believe it effects their INR.

What we should all remember is we need Vitamin K to assist in bone health so any of these idiots who tell us to stay away from green vegetables are actually causing brittle bones and perpetuating this myth. I have been on Warfarin since 2001, eat enough foods containing Vitamin K to constitute my normal daily intake and have no problem with bone density.

I know we are all different but to create fear in patients is just wrong and I would ask any doctor or nurse who perpetuates this blatant untruth to prove it with at least two authenticated studies.

[Lure2 in reply to ebulfin]

That was really a very good and wise answer! Thank you!

Yes some less educated clinics tell us to stay away from K-vit rich vegetables when we instead need them.

Kerstin

[MaryF Administrator in reply to Lure2]

I am not on Warfarin, but understand the need to keep them in the diet, but the diet to be consistent. MaryF

[Lure2 in reply to MaryF]

Yes your are so right MaryF. The K-vit rich vegetables the same amount each day is very important.

Have a nice Sunday!

Kerstin

[ainsleytidd in reply to ebulfin]

I do agree with this point it is the current thinking of my gp. what they cant explain to me is if you mess with the make up of blood there has to be a down and up side to it, as blood is so vital to the whole body and all of our organs?

[suwinter in reply to ebulfin]

You are so right ebulfin. I have been on 10-14 mg warfarin daily for 30+ years. I think it's important to eat a balanced diet including leafy veg. The important thing is not to eat them every day! I eat broccoli, kale or leafy greens once per week and my INR stays fairly OK. I also haven't any signs of osteoporosis or brittle bones, despite being 56.

[MaryF Administrator in reply to suwinter]

It is definitely about keeping the diet consistent, and of course monitoring the INR very carefully to see what suits the individual. MaryF

[Lure2 in reply to MaryF]

I agree to that especially when we all have APS here and the INR can be difficult to keep in range.

Kerstin

[GinaD]

For me; 1large leafy green salad at lunch plus up to about 1/3 cup of broccoli for dinner. Each day. But if I eat kale or green cabbage, ( the sauerkraut at The Hutte is wonderful!) then the kale or the cabbage is all the K for my day. I've done this for 14 years. I hike a lot--despite the arthritis ( the views of my state's lush forests, energetic streams and panoramic ridge lines is in itself a wonderful therapy!) and my bones test at stronger then usual for my age.

And by the way--iceberg lettuce, red cabbage and cauliflower all have only negligible levels of K compared to their green cousins.

Warfarin has been in use for decades. Compared to most other prescribed drugs it has few--if any--long term side effects. It interferes with the absorption of K. And that's it.

[Lure2 in reply to GinaD]

Good to hear that you bones test strong for your age!

I understand you have the best therapy there is with your panoramic ridge lines when hiking.

Kerstin

[ainsleytidd in reply to GinaD]

hi thanks for that, one thing I have been beginning to suspect here is due to the conflicting advice by proffesonals, iwould like to know the break down of how many elderly people die in the uk as a result of warfarin miss management. the vast majority die of heart attack (even with other health issues)

it would be interesting to know the break down of warfarin and non warfarin and then how many were miss managed, I suspect we would be very shocked at the result, as from my personal experience the miss management here is huge. for instance I was informed when I first went onto warfarin do not eat bananas or cranberrys, nothing else. I got myself a book and found the connection between vit k potassium and warfarin which then directly affect your bones. we could potentially have thousands of people in the uk dieing and suffering with further illness than should be the case. the comments from on here with this post have clearly shown the advice I have had here to be flawed on green veg vit k.

[Lure2 in reply to ainsleytidd]

A very interesting comment!

Kerstin

[ainsleytidd]

it was done by a professor in holand and America as a joint study, I also asked my vascular consultant about it and he confirmed the same, the conection seems to be when blood is produced by the bone, and the interaction of the enzyms produced by the liver.

[brewdude6]

is the report online? link?

[MaryF Administrator in reply to brewdude6]

Which report are you after, there is much in writing on line regarding diet and Warfarin, and most of the teaching hospitals have up to date information for patients. MaryF

[ainsleytidd in reply to brewdude6]

if you put a search in google for dutch warfarin studys, it comes up as the afib report by hans r Larsen msc che. the research on brital bones was done by Washington uni school of med and nyu medical centre

[ainsleytidd]

if you put a search in google for dutch warfarin studys, it comes up as the afib report by hans r Larsen msc che. the research on brital bones was done by Washington uni school of med and nyu medical centre, it is a good read and has a lot of information relevant to multi conditions but it does clearly state from the two above medical universitys that a link to Osteoporosis. it also highlights as per the advice on here that to avoid green veg is bad advice.