Heart Arrhythmia

[Bren20]

Hello all. I have a question that maybe someone can answer. Most of the time my heart beats fine. Steady and around 60 BPM. There are times though that it will out of the blue beat 8 or 10 times in a row fast. Just speeds up for no reason and then will go back to normal slow rhythm. Does anyone know what is happening? I take atenolol (beta blocker) and Lisinopril HCTZ (bp med). It doesn't happen often. Maybe once every few months. It just sorta takes my breath for a second. Also, I do have what I would consider an extra beat or it feels like a pause sometimes. I think it's called pvc's. I have those weekly.

[Palpman]

I would hazzard a guess that you have brief runs of AVNRT or Atrial Ventricular Node Reentry Tachycardia.

This is when your Sinus Node pulses normally in the Atrials and travels down to the AV Node junction where it is directed down to the ventricles.

The problem here in that some of the pulse finds a side path to return from where it came and re enters the AV Node.

This anomaly causes the heart to pulse at least twice from one Sinus Node pulse.

It may snowball into multiple erroneous pulses and could last for a few seconds to hours like mine.

This is the most common flutter type of arrhythmia.

It is also easier to convert than AFib and ablations are more successful too.

[Bren20 in reply to Palpman]

Went out with family last night and my heart tried to kick off. It's like it tries to go into tachy but my meds say nope! 🤣 Pulse was nice, slow, steady thump.....thump.....thump.... and I felt little lightheaded for a sec. Check my pulse and it's beating fast like 8 to 10 times thumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthump and then went back to normal. Afterward that night and today, I just have an every once in a while extra beat.

[Hidden]

I assume that because you are already on medication to control your blood pressure and your rhythm you have seen a doctor and had the basic tests.The changes you experience often occur and are hard to pinpoint to any obvious triggers.What is known is the relationship between arrythmias and low magnesium.Something most doctors overlook because they are not taught that magnesium plays a huge part in the electrical activity of heart muscle...and when it is low then too much calcium becomes the problem.Magnesium works as the opposite to calcium ions in the heart regulatory system.

You can simply add magnesium taurate (up to 500 mg a day) and surprize yourself how soon these ectopics, pvc's start to lessen.Magnesium Taurate is found mostly in heart muscle...not really anywhere else in the body.It is thought that the mitochondria in the heart cells require this as they are the most hard working cells.Also it will lower your blood pressure and is quite safe to take alongside your present medication.

Dr Sanjay Gupta a cardiologist (youtube) explains this in greater detail.

Also research drcarolyndeanlive.com on the important of this vital mineral...you use up more of it during stress and illness.

[Bren20 in reply to Hidden]

Never seen cardiologist for it but my GP has done ecg and everything looks great. I have low BP because of the meds I take. He may adjust because it does run low. Even with low BP tho I have never felt faint or anything. My extra beat or feelings of it skipping etc seems to be proximal. It will happen if I sit or lay down. One night I adjusted my bed down and it triggered it. It kept flip flopping. Wouldn't stop. Got up and it quit. Laid down and it started again. I had to sleep almost sitting up. It's annoying.

[Bren20 in reply to Bren20]

I do take a magnesium supplement. Just reg mag tho. 250 mg.

[Hidden in reply to Bren20]

Okay...thanks for replying....you seem to either have involvement from the stomach (reflux)or compression of the vagus nerve...Are you a little bit over weight?...do you have acid reflux...silent reflux?Quick cure is apple cider vinegar....or 5HTP which boosts melatonin.Melatonin is released by the body at night and causes the lower esophageal sphincter to shut fully thus stop reflux.Do not eat three hours before bed and you should see some improvement from these bothering symptoms.My trick is to use bicarbonate of soda half an hour before i lay down...this releases trapped air....and remarkably lowers serum calcium.

As a man you should be on at least 400 mg magnesium a day...if you have arrythmia then i woukd opt for magnesium taurate...or Glycinate which is better absorbed.Try to reduce your calcium uptake...we are trying to restore the balance in the cardiac ions.

[Bren20 in reply to Hidden]

I do have acid reflux. I take Prilosec daily for it and yes I am overweight. Wow unreal that can be the cause. Thanks for your reply.

[Alphakiwi in reply to Bren20]

If you reduce weight, drink water, get of dairy products, eat lots fresh vegetables, excersise daily,make sure your sleep is regular . I try go to bed at same time everynight. I am off all meds now and back to regular club cycling but nothing competitive.You needto get your whole body healthy.

Try it.

[Shcldavies]

You will need tests to identify the type of arrhythmia. Arrhythmia happen generally for one of 3 reasons. 1. You have an inherent electrical pathway problem (i.e. Wolf Parkinson White) which needs to be fixed asap as it could be dangerous - this is the most unlikely by far and will be picked up from an ecg.

2. You have developed an additional electrical pathway in your heart possibly due to depletion of key minerals over time causing a breakdown in the way ions, particularly potassium, sodium and calcium ions work to generate the electrical signals for you heart to beat.

3. Your over sensitive to some of the triggers that make your heart beat faster causing parts of your atria to trigger instead of waiting for the SA node (you have cells within your atria that are designed to trigger as a back-up to your normal SA node rhythm failing). There are many things that make your heart beat faster from signals from your brain to have more oxygen in your blood (needed during exercise) to nervous triggers (getting a fright), these messages generally travel through your Vagus nerve (so it may also be a problem with your vagus nerve). This condition can also be attributed to a lack of minerals over a long time .

Magnesium is a mineral that helps orchestrate your key heart minerals, magnesium is thought to be depleted in many of us due to the nature of modern farming and processing of foods. You may find it usefully to try a magnesium supplement (no good if its not a magnesium shortfall but there will be little harm in having too much, it will cause you to go to the toilet often). Do not use magnesium oxide as it does not get absorbed well (and it will make you go to the toilet often), all the others have benefits and disadvantages that you will have to try to see which is the best for you. Also if you take a PPI (e.g. Omeprazole), magnesium will not get absorbed so you will have to reduce or temporary stop your PPI intake for magnesium to have an effect. I reduced my PPI intake by half and it still worked well and allowed the magnesium to be absorbed. Magnesium will not work overnight, it will take weeks to have a noticeable affect and then the effect will be gradual.

[Hidden in reply to Shcldavies]

Just a little point....the atp pump that is in all mitochondria needs one mineral to ensure proper function....magnesium....and when its deficient...it impedes the sodium/potassium exchange which needs to happen to make energy.This is precisely why people who are tired waterlogged because sodium is trapped in the cells whilst their bloods show adequate potassium because the mineral is not exchanging with sodium...that leads to bloating...hence the need for diuretics...which further depletes the electrolytes....Calcium makes muscle contract...magnesium makes muscles relax.

The heart uses calcium and magnesium to contract and relax the muscles.

The heart mitochondria needs potassium and sodium to supply energy.

When empty magnesium ions spaces get filled with calcium...you get ectopics.Modern diet is highly centered on calcium so we have people unable to maintain the balance.

The heart mitochondria works 24 hours a day so its important to have magnesium in the diet to avoid this issue with fatigue and ectopics in the first place.?.this rule of thumb applies to all of the mitochondria in the body organs muscles and brain.

Thankyou.

[Shcldavies in reply to Hidden]

Hello Jomico, thank you for your comment, very interesting, our heart is an extremely complex bit of kit and the interactions of sodium and calcium in depolarising the cells are essential, working together similar to a PN junction in a transistor to generate +ve irons that make our heart contract (with a little help of potassium to make sure its correct timing and potential). The movement of Potassium +ve irons out of the cells initiate the depolarise of the cells and let the calcium en mass out is primarily what makes our heart relax. Allowing the correct quantities of these minerals (where available) to make the system work properly is the role of magnesium in the ATP (not sure how it does this). I did not know about empty magnesium ions being filled with calcium causing ectopics, I thought ectopics could be caused by any of flow of ions being disrupted/interrupted. I would be interested to know more about how potassium not exchanging with sodium causes bloating - the reason being that bloating often accompanies arrhythmia. and there may a link between what is preventing the exchange and the onset of arrhythmia/ectopics.

Whilst this process that makes our heart beat has a natural frequency (60m to 80/min), the nervous system overrides this natural frequency takes its impudence from various parts of our body (oxygen levels, pain, fright , emotion etc). What I cannot get to the bottom of is whether the arrhythmia originates within the cells of our hearts or through erroneous nerve inputs? In other words, when our heart is in arrhythmia is it because the hearts natural engine is not working right with the nerve input its getting or is the hearts engine working right and an erroneous nerve input is generating the arrhythmia.

[Hidden in reply to Shcldavies]

Thankyou for your excellent thoughts...i thought you might like to read this paper from the bmj...openheart.bmj.com/content/5...

I think this is the tip of the iceberg in so many disease pathologies.

Thats why i use magnesium and why i often promote it.

[Shcldavies in reply to Hidden]

Thank you very interesting and I do believe magnums does help many including myself. Clearly its not the full picture and for many who have adequate magnesium it will be of no benefit. Like most medical reviews it is inevitable (given the complexity of the subject) that many "chicken and egg" questions remain unanswered hence its conclusion. "Tip of the iceberg" is certainly right. The good thing about magnesium is that there is normally little consequence taking too much so there is nothing to loose and so much of it about (its basically refined chalk). I am convinced that there is a whole new world of medicine out there waiting to be discovered, unfortunately money is the driver right now so the main thrust is delivering symptom relief rather than root cause cures.

[Hidden in reply to Shcldavies]

Once you address the magnesium...then the real issue ....calcification of the tissue caused by calcium starts to reverse.You see the opposite to calcium on the see saw of life is Magnesium.

Not only does it balance all the enzymes, it dissolves calcium deposits...along with K2. The only thing thats inevitable in this equation...is the ignorance being proferred by the medical profession who cram calcium into people then think calcium channel blockers can fix things until they can use a knife.

Read Patrick Theults blog an engineer and olympic ahlete coach..who stumbled on his own cure and discovered its a surface chemistry issue...when one starts to widen thinking...this is reversible...not inevitable....he has several youtube uploads where he talks in depth on this.

k-vitamins.com/index.php?pa...

[HamishBoxer in reply to Hidden]

Yes, K2 with Vitamin D3 takes the Calcium back into the bones where it belongs.

[Hidden in reply to HamishBoxer]

Take it you read the blog then?A dentist named Weston Price figured this out in the 1930's...fermented foods in general do the same....word of warning to the wise...i dived in using D3+ K2 (M4,M7) and took myself into a nightmare three months of Pvc's on exersion because i was removing calcium too quickly.....had to switch to sauerkraut and magnesium to get them to stop.

[HamishBoxer in reply to Hidden]

Noted , thank you.

[Alphakiwi in reply to Hidden]

Tjis is well written. Thank you so much.

[Alphakiwi in reply to Shcldavies]

Great reading.

[Jeff1943]

I can confirm what Jomico says about the beneficial effect of Magnesium supplements on ectopic missed beats.I occasionally had missed beats for a day or two every few years and could associate them with periods of high anxiety.

In February 2020 following an early episode of Covid I began to experience missed beats at the rate of 2 or so every minute 24/7. Diagnosed as very frequent 11% ectopics and heart block 2:1. As I had no symptoms I was told there was nothing to worry about and no point in medications to stop the missed beats. But I received a pacemaker which will prevent bpm from dropping below 40bpm at night whilst asleep.

In February 2021 I was told that Magnesium is good for anxiety which I sometimes experience and began taking two 200mg Magnesium Citrate a day. It has helped with the anxiety but 3 weeks after starting on the Magnesium the ectopic beats stopped and my heart returned to a regular rhythm after one year.

I wondered if this could be due to the Magnesium and soon discovered that many people online have found Magnesium helpful for different types of arrhythmia including ectopics. During the past 10 weeks I have only had three 20-minute episodes of missed beats: once after my second Covid vaccination, once after over indulgence in the demon drink and once when extremely tired. Nothing at all during the past month.

How different from the 11 months+ when I had 2 or 3 ectopic beats every minute of every hour of every day.

I am mindful that Jomico recommends Magnesium Taurate but I continue to take Magnesium Citrate on the basis 'if it works don"t fix it'. But may try Magnesium Taurate before long.

Although people on this forum have mentioned being recommended Magnesium supplements by cardiologists I think the majority of heart health practitioners are completely unaware of the benefits of this natural substance that is without side effects.

At my pacemaker check ups I've been told the device did not need to activate as my bpm have not fallen below 40bpm.

[Hidden in reply to Jeff1943]

Good to hear you are continuing with this and maintaining control.So many report such positive results with Mg.thankyou.

[Jeff1943 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, Jomico, for confirming here and on previous posts what I discovered by chance about the benefits of Magnesium.

[Bren20 in reply to Jeff1943]

Awesome. I will most definitely check into magnesium. Thank you both for commenting. 😊

[Jeff1943 in reply to Bren20]

I hope it does for you what it has done for others. It takes a few weeks to be effective so don't give up on it and please report back eventually regarding your experience.

[Bren20 in reply to Jeff1943]

Thank you. Sure will.

[sheffbk in reply to Bren20]

couple of points:

1 the BMJ review quoted above concludes that "However, more prospective, randomised control trials are needed to be able to elucidate the value of magnesium as a therapy...".

2 often when low levels of factors such as minerals (eg magnesium) vitamins or other are found in tissue/blood, then tablet/pill type supplements do not give the expected improvement, but dietary sources can be often more effective. It's easy to google the best sources for a good supply of dietary Mg.

{One person's experience is not very significant, but I have to say that my own trials with supplementary Mg taken over a year have not changed my permanent arrhythmia in any way - note that I do have a diet high in Mg anyway].

[Hidden in reply to sheffbk]

For you to get the 450 mg per daily requirement...you would need to consume 20 cups of spinach....not all would get absorbed if your microbiome is poor...so supplementation is better....you may not be using one that is very well absorbed.Oxide...chloride only input 4% of what you input....the glycinates...taurates...threonates fare better in absorbtion.Even if you could get 200 mg into the tissues it woukd make a difference...yet still take months to bring levels to near normal.If you have alot of calcified tissue that took decades to build up...it isnt going to disappear after a few meek attempts at using this mavellous mineral.Have you ever tried making magnesium oil and just spraying over your chest muscles...i have...and it still works very quickly against arrythmias....just think you should reinvestigate this...

Every trial experiment concludes with the same spiel....Thank Rockerfella...he invented the term Quack...and poo pooed all holistic foods that stood the test of time...its a get out clause to absolve who ever wrote what so they never face litigation....but also to give pharma full control of what is used in the name of health...big pharma want to keep people chained to their drugs...which they sell at exhorbitant prices with so many side effects because stuff you can get out of plants and soil can not be patented nor profited from.The side effects give them another opportunity to sell something.

Randomised trials just waste time and money...and always ambiguous ...never for or against....my reply to this ....ask the people who recover....and get well ....hear what they think!

By the way...if you think taking blood to check for magnesium is a good yardstick...think on...only 1% is ever found in serum....39% in tissue..60 % in bone....which is why blood tests are useless.

[meadfoot]

Yes i have the same thing most days, unnerving.

[Mazzad100]

I have exactly the same and it plays up when I have acid reflux. I had them a lot and used to stress about them which made them worse, massively!!. I had an implanted device which I have had for almost three years as they were getting so regular. I have had one run of svt in all of that time about 3 mins. However, I have had loads of skipped beats and runs like you describe and when these have been looked into they just tell me runs of ectopic beats. Please take a look at York Cardiology on Youtube the Consultant is Sanjay Gupta and he puts lots of informative videos on. He does some really good ones on palpitations that put your mind at rest. A run of less than thirty don't count as anything other than ectopics which are generally harmless. I distract myself and that cuts them down or I don't notice them. If you've been checked out try not to worry, (I know that's difficult!!).

[Bren20 in reply to Mazzad100]

Thank you.