Please stamp out quackery

[PhilSsentongo]

Hi can you please put a more accurate review about the effects of acupuncture on colic as there is clear p hacking and multiple serious flaws in the study is it possible to at least state even the most basic ones.

[grace111]

where did you see the inaccurate review about the effects of acupuncture? im sure it would affect people differently. i'd like to see this review if you could tell me where it is. thanks. grace xoxo

[Silver_Fairy]

Is it this one?

aimbeta.bmj.com/content/ear...

[grace111 in reply to Silver_Fairy]

The way the post sounded it was that he got the review on here. I would think everyone is affected in a different way with acupuncture. As an adult i had acupuncture for sciatia and it took away my depression i couldnt believe it. I found acupuncture painful when the needle got inseted into my calf, it was like an electric shock and i made the therapist take it out. He attached the needles to some kind of machine that made the needle vibrate. I didnt feel it anywhere except for the needle in my calf.It was in one of those chinese shops that are scattered around. The therapist said that i was one of the people the accupuncture would really helf. I told him i would come back another day and he said "I dont think you will" and he was right. I have to say that although it was painful i was very depressed at the same time and i felt so happy for a while after. thats why im impressed with acupuncture. I only know about my own experience. I have had ear acupuncture and i didn't think it did anything at all. im in pain a lot with sciatica and its worse at nig, last night i was in real pain i had done a lot of stretching during the day yesterday to try and help it and in bed last night it was not in the usualy place i had the pain, it was in my heel and up my leg. when im out shopping and standing or walking around i get pains in the side;s of my knees im sure its connected. I think i will go back for more acupuncture and this time i will take a friend with me. thanks for that link love grace xoxo iv looked at that link and it seems to be that acupuncture is helpful and this is what it says at the end of the study Conclusions Acupuncture appears to reduce crying in infants with colic safely.

[FlissFloss]

I have acupuncture for my neck and headaches. I have thoracic outlet syndrome and tmjd with osteoarthritis. I always get good relief from acupuncture.

[Mahaselvaraj]

I Completed my basic study on acupunture, what i understood is, the treatment is helps to improve our blood circulation and especially more concentration on suffered muscle that create pain in our body. Usually the tablet we eat is pain killer (fast reaction) but acupuncture treatment will be inner side of our body(slow reaction).

[Zeno]

The problem is that the more acupuncture is looked into and the more account is taken of non-specific effects (ie those that have nothing to do with actually inserting needles) the more any benefits disappear. Acupuncture has thus been described as a theatrical placebo. See the following article published in the journal Anesthesia and Analgesia:

Acupuncture Is Theatrical Placebo

journals.lww.com/anesthesia...

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

i dont really care what an article says if it works for someone then it works. i go by experience not by anything else. of course it wouldnt have anything to do with the fact that its not owned by the pharmcuetical companies.

[Zeno in reply to grace111]

If the best evidence shows - as it does - that any perceived benefit of acupuncture is highly likely due to a variety of different effects including placebo effects and nothing to do with sticking needles in and not forgetting that there are most definitely harms in sticking needles in people, what claims do you believe acupuncturists should make to attract customers?

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

rubbish

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

pub 2011 May 12.

Acupuncture anesthesia for open heart surgery in contemporary China.

Zhou J1, Chi H, Cheng TO, Chen TY, Wu YY, Zhou WX, Shen WD, Yuan L.

Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Although the use of acupuncture anesthesia for open heart surgery, which was introduced in China four decades ago, has declined in recent years, there is a renewed interest in it in contemporary China due to the escalating medical costs associated with open heart surgery. This study was aimed to determine whether a combined acupuncture-medicine anesthesia (CAMA) strategy reduces early postoperative morbidity and medical costs in patients undergoing open heart operation under cardiopulmonary bypass.

METHODS:

From July 2006 to October 2010, CAMA was applied in 100 patients undergoing open heart surgery in comparison with another 100 patients under the conventional general anesthesia (GA). For all the CAMA patients, an abdominal breathing training program was practiced for the 3 consecutive days prior to operation. About 15 to 20 min prior to surgical incision, acupuncture needles were inserted into the bilateral points ZhongFu, LieQue, and XiMen. During operation, patients were kept on spontaneous breathing. Endotracheal intubation was not employed but only prepared as a standby. The narcotic drugs, fentanyl and midazolam, were intravenously injected but in very low doses as compared to GA. Open heart procedures were performed routinely in both groups.

RESULTS:

Compared with the GA patients, the CAMA patients had a less usage of narcotic drugs (p<0.001), less postoperative pulmonary infection (p<0.05), shorter stay in intensive care unit (p<0.05), and a lower medical cost (P<0.05).

CONCLUSIONS:

A combined acupuncture-medicine anesthesia strategy reduces the postoperative morbidity and medical costs in patients undergoing open heart surgery under cardiopulmonary bypass.

Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.

[Zeno in reply to grace111]

Oh dear. Please tell us what you think that shows.

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

i'v looked at most of your posts and they are nearly all telling people that " alternative therapy does not worK , and some have even been removed and your laughing at people.: im not going to ruin my day. goodbye

[Zeno in reply to grace111]

Wrong. I provide evidence and critiques of others' evidence. But please tell me about those comments you believe have been removed.

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

rubbish

[Zeno in reply to grace111]

What is rubbish, and why?

[Zeno]

I have nothing to prove! The onus is those who make the claims to substantiate them!

[grace111 in reply to Zeno]

we dont need proof we aready have it. its the disbaliever who needs proof and im not doing that work for them. go do your own research if you need proof. i dont need to prove anything to anyone.

[Zeno in reply to grace111]

As has been said many times, it's those who make the claims - particularly by those who have a financial or other interest in it - who need to substantiate them. However, what you personally accept as 'proof' is entirely up to you.

[Zeno]

That's an interesting and important topic. However, the topic here is acupuncture. Do you believe the same issues of CoI affect trials of acupuncture?

[grace111]

excellent links and very true.

[FlissFloss]

Have to agree with @Zeno here! I personally find it very helpful, I can tell when I've had it done and it's not all in my.head either. Otherwise continues use despite people like grace111 would stop the placebo working for me anyway!

Grace111 please accept our like of it and stop arguing! We get you don't agree but there's too much evidence against you! The xhinese wouldn't continue using it if it wasn't truly helpful!!