Glucose, Glucose-Fructose, Dextrose - WTF????

So, this is an ongoing (albeit internal) debate for me on the safety of glucose, glucose-fructose and dextrose.

I asked this question of our 'friends' at Coeliac UK and was told, by food labelling law, if the dextrose, etc., was derived from a wheat source it would have to be labelled thus. Now, I'm not sure what planet our good friends at CUK live on, but the law does not require this to be stated (shoot me if I'm wrong).

Australian gluten rules, as revised, now are ok with glucose that may/may not come from wheat source as they claim it will never contain any measurable gluten (they were not ok with glucose being included in GF products for many years).

So, given that no one (to my knowledge) has to indicate what the source of the glucose, glucose-frustose, dextrous is, even if it is wheat, where do you stand on your tolearance to or acceptance of these ingredients for coeliac?

[urbangirl]

I'm with you on this my friend. Since I discovered this problem with glucose syrup I have avoided any products that contain it. Although I don't usually use any ready made products as I cook from scratch. Sometimes, of course, my friends and relatives use products that advise they are gluten free when they cook for me, but these may contain glucose syrup. Most confectionery contains glucose syrup as you will know. I have watched my friends devour delicious chocolates with envy ☹️ on many occasions.

[Hidden in reply to urbangirl]

Thank you for that. Do you think then that most glucose in our foods is from wheat source? I can relate to your envy of others eating as they will, but let's face it, they're going to get fat ; )

[urbangirl in reply to Hidden]

I don't know the answer to that Benjamin. But I do know that other people on this site have also had problems with glucose syrup and were under the impression it was gluten free. I am curious at to why CUK are reluctant to address this particularly as Australia does give a warning. I have found myself in uncomfortable discussions with people on this subject.

[urbangirl in reply to urbangirl]

Also I wonder whether some medications, particularly in liquid form contain glucose syrup. I cannot tolerate maize and some medications are coated in maize. After surgery 2+ years ago I was prescribed liquid paracetamol which I think was a stronger version of the paediatric dose and was a bespoke prescription by the hospital pharmacy; and I have been prescribed liquid codeine. I didn't have any reaction to the paracetamol and weaned myself of this asap. Only had a couple of doses of codeine. Usually use CBD nowadays.

[Hidden in reply to urbangirl]

Medicines and supplements are a nightmare. At least pharmacueticals are regulated to a degree, but the amount of trace gluten in some must be an issue. Supplements market seems pretty much a free-for-all. I just think our entire western world has an obsession with gluten that in just not normal. Why the f does it need to be so prevalent when it's not even necessary at times.

[urbangirl in reply to Hidden]

Quite agree. It is exhausting, however to have to constantly explain why you can't take some medication and you can feel like you are seen as a hypochondriac or neurotic.

[Hidden in reply to urbangirl]

I hear you. People do not appreciate the level of gaslighting and negation that goes with being coeliac. It is wearing. We probably all have mild/not so mild form of PTSD from it.

[philaustin in reply to Hidden]

Do you mean OCHD, or OCD?

[bookish in reply to Hidden]

I use Micki Rose who produces a list of gluten, dairy etc free and specifically corn free (as particularly difficult to find and often problematic) supplements. Dextrose and glucose can be corn derived and I do my best to avoid. The list is free although you can donate if you wish. Last updated March 2020 and well worth reading in my opinion. purehealthshop.ecwid.com/TG...

[Hidden in reply to bookish]

Brilliant. Thank you!

[bookish in reply to Hidden]

My pleasure! No connection or affiliation but her site and books have helped me a great deal so I'm always happy to encourage people to read.

[Hidden in reply to bookish]

She has actually popped up on another group I'm on, on Facebook. I thought her name rang a bell!

[bookish in reply to Hidden]

She does have a Facebook group for those of us she calls TGF ers (Truly Gluten Free) but I don't do FB. Nice lady and very approachable. I've got lots of her factsheets plus the (vast!) Gluten Plan and the Recovery From Chronic Illness.

[bookish in reply to Hidden]

Hi again, just had an email and Micki has updated the Master List. Link is purehealthshop.ecwid.com/TG... if you want to get the new one. Cheers

[Hidden in reply to bookish]

thank you!

[Hidden in reply to urbangirl]

The Australian ceoliac people are now ok with it! They did a u-turn and now say its ok and tends to have no measurable gluten, and they most they have found was 4ppm in wheat glucose. CUK are pants for everything, in my opinion, so if I google for advice and there are CUK links, I just ignore those and go for Australian links or 'Beyond Celiac'.coeliac.org.au/s/article/Gl...

[philaustin in reply to Hidden]

I googled cuk and it produced some interesting results.

[Hidden]

Hi Benjamin123, I'm with you on this one as well, in same theme as what Urbangirl has cited. I find navigating gluten free becomes more confusing as time goes on. As from other posts I'm in a no-mans land of weird food reactions that may/may not be gluten at this point, but I had to have a SIBO test recently that involved drinking highly sugared drink (750ml) that contained glucose as the sugar source. I expected bad things to happen, but nothing bad happened. So, I don't know if the glucose in this product was corn based or other, and not wheat. But I have had reactions to things with glucose and glucose-fructose so just avoid. If they would just label products when glucose, etc, from wheat source it would be so much better and easier. No definitive answer for you - just more anomalies for your list.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Mise, that is an anomaly if the SIBO drink was ok, but you find glucose, etc, not to be fine normally. Have you been able to find out any more about the type of glucose used in the drink?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It would be an interesting one to check out. I wish I'd taken the brand name to check online.

[Whydothis]

These are things I have tried to avoid since long before finding myself coeliac, because I don't believe sugar in any form is a good food - so finding out that it is suspect for gluten has just been an added incentive to avoid it.I have never noticed any statements of what glucose etc are derived from, and I think you are right that this does not have to be declared.

On the other hand, if the Australians say it is ok I am far less worried about it! I have much more faith in their advice than in CUK, so on the very rare occasions I am out and given commercial GF free food I don't worry about it - as I try not to worry about the 20ppm issue on those occasions, assuming that in the context of my usual wholefood diet it will be negligible.

[Hidden in reply to Whydothis]

Thanks for that. Yes, I think you are right on sugar not being great. I do still like something sweet from time to time, so the glucose thing does massively limit the options, but find there are things out there that are ok, e.g. booja booja ice cream, raw halo chocolate. Glucose, etc, does seem to be more prevalent at the cheaper end of the food market, so clearly prevalent as cheap ingredient that will maximise profit.

[Whydothis in reply to Hidden]

Yes - it is cheap sugar - and all sugar is used as a way of making things more cheaply, imo. It gets added to savoury processed foods to improve the taste of other cheap ingredients! (I must try not to go on about it - I have had a 'thing' about sugar for years!)

[Hidden in reply to Whydothis]

I've watched a documentary on YouTube about sugar and the controversies around its health implications that don't get talked about, including links to cancer. Wish I could kick the habit, and admire your avoidance of it. You're right on the processed foods - take sugar out, most things will taste crap or taste of nothing. Was also watching documentary of slave 'trade' from African nations and that was simply fueled by the growing addiction to sugar in Europe and hunger for profit by merchants/plantation owners. It has always been the food of no good.

[Penel in reply to Hidden]

It took me several attempts to kick the sugar habit, some years ago. Didn’t realise it could be so addictive!

[Hidden in reply to Penel]

It is for sure. I make small inroads, then fail again. It's helpful that most processed foods are not coeliac safe, so that helps. Did you find health improved without sugar?

[Penel in reply to Hidden]

Yes I think cutting out sugar, along with processed foods, helped improve my health. I didn’t cut out fruit but tried to eat the lower sugar ones .The side effects of trying to quit can be really cr*p, but if you can hang on, those cravings etc will stop. I can remember feeling very surprised that I no longer craved chocolate or cake.

[Whydothis in reply to Hidden]

Exactly!

Edit - this was a reply to your last reply to me, but it has appeared as a new reply to the top post, so doesn't make much sense!

[Hidden in reply to Whydothis]

The site does seem to be playing up at moment. I can't seem to 'like' anything. It's having an off day.

[Mathri]

Have you tried a ketogenic diet? This is zero carbohydrates, high fat and moderate protein. You can add bulk by substituting cauliflower rice for real rice. You feel rubbish for a few days or a week or so as your body gets use to using fat rather than carbohydrate. It's also great for loosing weight. When I tried it, after a few weeks, just the thought of eating anything sweet was a real turn off. You do not need carbohydrates at all!.

[Hidden in reply to Mathri]

Sounds interesting, although I am on cusp on being underweight for my height so wary of any diet that is mean to be for health but markets on weight loss. Did you follow this diet for weight loss specifically, or because of coeliac/food issues?

[Mathri in reply to Hidden]

I did it primarily to lose weight and went down from about 97Kg to to 91Kg but got stuck at that point.

The interesting thing is that I lost all interest in sweet foods. This may be helpful if you are prediabetic and want not to become a full-blown type 2 diabetic. Some gluten free foods; e.g. Genius fruitbread, are loaded with sugar and made me feel really ill when I eat a few slices as my body overcompensated and my blood sugar fell through the floor.

It's just possible that a coeliac or even just gluten intolerant like me could find some gluten free foods could give symptoms of extreme tiredness similar to eating gluten.

Glucose is about the worst sugar you can use with sucrose coming a close second. Perhaps surprisingly, pure fructose, (fruit sugar) although extremely sweet, has a low glyccemic index and does not cause a sudden spike in your blood glucose. But, if you can try to avooid this for a trial period at least, but make sure that you still get enough vitamin C. I take 3-4 grams of sugar free vitamin C tablets a day. Lower doses may be enough to stop you getting scurvy but you need nore to strengthen your immune system and help fight off diseases like the common cold and even COVID-19.

[Hidden in reply to Mathri]

I'm personally not interested in a no-sugar diet, but thank you for expanding on your experience. My interest is in the sourcing of glucose/fructose/dextrous. I have read that all food does get converted into sugar at some point, including proteins, so going 'sugar free' is a bit of a misnomer but can see how the sudden-spike sugars are important to avoid if you are diabetic and pre-diabetic. It's interesting that diet has such an impact on health yet so much sugar is put in our so-called staples like bread and breakfast cereals. I think without the sugar a lot of these foods would taste pretty bland and dire.

[Mathri]

You are right. Our bodies do need sugars such as ribose to make DNA, ATP and a whole host of other metabolites. But fructose is absorbed by the same transporter as ribose and is used to make ATP and DNA etc. in much the same way.

But, although we can get all the sugars that we need from proteins, fructose is much more efficient. having to make it from proteins is much less efficient and may contribute to the weight loss from a ketogenic diet.

However, pure fructose, is the natural sugar found in most fruits sweet vegetables such as carrots parsnips and onions as well as most honeys (depending on what the bees were foraging at the time. It is the sugar that were "designed" to eat and is by far the sweetest that we normally eat.sugar

You can buy pure fructose in bulk from Amazon, is relatively cheap and you can put it in your coffee or add it to a gluten-free breakfast cereal. If you want something that is anything but bland, try a helping of oat bran spiced up with a teaspoonful of ginger powder, a teaspoonful of fructose, a desertspoonful ofcocoa powderand boiling water to taste..It will blow your socks off.

[Penel in reply to Mathri]

Fructose may have a low GI but excess can adversely affect liver function, so it’s a good idea to go easy on the added fructose.

[Mathri in reply to Penel]

It's tue that much of the fructose goes to the liver, but the liver is the body's main chemical factory and makes the nucleotides needed for DNA sysnthesis from either recycled nucleic acids or fructose via ribose, which can be seen as an intermediate. So it's not all bad.

Also, fructose is only slowly absorbed by the gut,leaving quite a lot behind to feed the friendly bacteria in the gut that provide us with many metabolites that we can then use ourselves.

The main downside is that they can generate a large amount of carbon dioxide, methane, and some hydrogen sulphide and other evil smelling compounds in the process. Some say that we can tolerate and perhaps enjoy the smell of our own gas but not that from other people. Interesting thought....

[Penel in reply to Mathri]

Fructose malabsorption can cause real pain for some people!

Excess fructose in the liver can be converted to fat, with several possible negative effects on your health.