Proving my mould is aspergillosis mould

[Pooeysuey]

Can anyone tell me if there is a guaranteed test that I can use to find out for sure if the mould on my walls is aspergillosis? Waiting to be approved by National Aspergillosis Centre but not heard back.

[Lutonian]

'Mouldcheck.co.uk' offer a test that will confirm if you have toxic species of aspergillus,penicillium or stachybotrus present on your wall.However to my knowledge it does not differentiate between the individual species of aspergillus such as aspergillus fumigatus vs aspergillus flavus

Phone them and they will send you a special swab in a sterile container with instructions: you follow the instructions and send the swab of the mould on your wall back to' Mould check' and they analyse and send a report. It costs £55 and you can find their contact details via internet.If required they will also.come and take samples but it is more expensive.

If you want a more in depth analysis of mould down to particular species of mould eg aspergillus fumigatus or aspergillus flavus or aspergillus niger etc , a company such as 'Quartec' will come and take samples and quantify levels of contamination in air etc and get mould samples analysed to species level but it will be expensive: phone them to discuss options and costs.

Hope this helps

[Pooeysuey]

Thank you. Trying to get my landlord to do something about the mould is a nightmare so I thought something official might make a difference.

[Lutonian in reply to Pooeysuey]

'Mouldcheck.co.uk' have experience of liaising/dealing with Environmental Health officers re mould affected environments so when you phone them explain why you want the test.

[Pooeysuey in reply to Lutonian]

Thanks - I have explained in an email as won't be able to phone during the day. Thanks for your input.

[sarab09]

I have found that waiting for your landlord or Environmental Health Officer or Council in UK takes forever to even get a response. Then they try to blame it on us--hanging laundry to dry in house, condensation, etc. Fight goes on and with UK councils and/or private landlords refusing to acknowledge WHO reports or USA EPA reports.

I decided I would not take vacation and not buy Christmas gifts and paid for environmental testing by excellent professional who is a contributor to studies in USA with Dr Shoemaker who is number 1 world authority on mold based illnesses. The CEO is Jeff CHARLTON and the company is called BUILDING FORENSICS at buildingforensics.co.uk/

With Jeff you can do a self test hire or can select them to do the testing and sampling professionally. I have had Mr Charlton to my home to do two full rounds of testing and these tests confirmed various and DIFFERENT species of molds present---different rooms also had different molds---including aspergillus. This gets you to mold DNA and stuff that is a bit too scientific for me but private doctors seem to understand it. My next step is solicitors and the Courts which are much happier if you have something that everyone knows about and understands like asbestos.

So it is a long aggravating journey. But I decided I am the one stuck in the water damaged flat with black and other toxic molds growing and if I continued to wait for Environmental Officer and/or NHS, I would still be waiting when I die!!

Do let me know how you do. And do keep in touch because there are several of us talking to local university which has suggested some type of class action----the flats are owned by the same landlord who likes rent but not responsibilities for disrepair.

Good luck!

[Pooeysuey in reply to sarab09]

Thank you for that. The Environment Agency were supposed to be ringing the landlord on Monday but I am confident that I know what he said to them!!! He has probably told them to speak to his agent, as he doesn't speak to us himself anyway. The problem is he is a multi millionaire and we rent the whole farm, so its not just our home, but our livelihood too!!! I will give the EA a month then I will try what you say. We have only had 2 holidays in the last 28 years - we cant afford one, so I don't know how much we can afford but we have to do something. Everything we ask for is ignored but if we don't do what he says we get letter after letter.

[sarab09 in reply to Pooeysuey]

Good luck. Clearly I have little faith in Environmental Agency--too much bureaucracy and too likely to have some strange involvement with multi millionaire landlords---mine is too. Money is a problem which is why the capitalists always win and those of us without wealth just have to put up with inefficient NHS and landlords who really are slumlords.

[earthangel1979 in reply to sarab09]

Hear Hear!

[DrGraham in reply to Pooeysuey]

You should be aware that the organisation you should be referring to is the environmental health section of your local council and not the Environmental Agency which is quite a different body!

[sarab09 in reply to DrGraham]

I am not sure if your comment is in reply to me or whom. Anyhow, are you a physician in UK? I am in SE England and at least from London south to the sea there are different Environmental Health "sections" or "officers" or whatever some bureaucrat decides to call them and it is very Council specific. Moreover, if you are a tenant of Council Housing---where we are continually exposed to unhealthy floods, debris, sewage, and mold and a different type of surly landlord---a government bureaucrat with we are doing you a favour putting roof over your head attitude---you are NOT allowed to go to the Environmental Health officer. Here in Brighton & Hove the Evironmental Health officer only cares about PRIVATE housing---aka again the wealthy are different than the rest of us.

And yes, I am bitter and angry on that issue!

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to sarab09]

The system is badly flawed but that is the first time I have heard that EHO is out of bounds! I would be angry too.

The UK government, many local gov and landlords are trying to ignore this problem, laws are ignored or misinterpreted and few people want to take this all the way to court. I just don't think government wants to grasp this nettle as it will cost a huge amount to solve.

However the case for health problems caused by damp homes is building and we are working every day to find answers to this on behalf of our patients all over the UK. It is slow work as we get ignored a lot too but progress is being made.

[sarab09 in reply to GAtherton]

Are you a physician licensed to practice in UK? Do you realize that NHS does not have available any of the lab tests usually used in USA, Canada or Australia? Do you realize that the newest MRI procedures that show which areas of the brain are specifically being affected by specific molds are also not available in UK either by NHS or private? Do you realize that the few PRIVATE labs that do some of the testing charge 5 times what the USA labs charge?

Everyone including solicitors and barristers are trying and succeeding in ignoring the problems of mold, mycotoxins and water damaged buildings in UK. Everyone is ignoring the WHO reports too. And no matter what the Environmental Officer is called in your specific area or by your specific Council, they really do NOT give a damn either.

Sadly, the extent of corruption in the Councils and the lackluster enforcement of laws has been hitting us all smack in the face since Grenfell Tower disaster---but media and government know that public has a short interest span and if they can ignore the truth and the real numbers of dead until after the start of Wimbeldom then most people will forget!

Some of us are up against the ridiculously SHORT 3 YEAR LIMIT on personal injury lawsuits and so we do not have time to wait for "slow work"---we need action NOW!! Treatment and remediation is terribly expensive and really means getting out of UK for the best available protocols---something that Brexit will only make more difficult!

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to sarab09]

This is a rapidly developing area of research. There is still much to be done before we can be firm about how damp home affect our health but the speed of advancement is starting to pick up.

A few US doctors are stating that moulds and their toxins can cause a chronic inflammatory illness that is helped by intervening with oral chelating drugs. They have yet to adequately validate their claims and treatment regimens so without that the NHS will be very unlikely to pay for those tests.

Elsewhere we are concentrating on the rather better founded consensus that damp in the home can cause disease. Not much more evidence is needed - we know what damp is, we know what illnesses it causes. All damp must be eliminated whereupon health will improve.

Landlords and tenants are often in dispute over sources of damp and there needs to be better ways to quickly solve those disputes - that is the core of how we will improve health in our homes.

[DrGraham in reply to sarab09]

Much of this type of work tests the air and settled dust for moulds at the generic level - so will not identify pathogenic species. Failure to accurately identify pathogens limits the conclusions that can be made from this survey. Estimates of the amount of moulds in the air of a property are notoriously unreliable with little validation as yet with regards to health impacts. Likewise estimates of the numbers of moulds in collected dust. From your comments it sounds like you have found a very expensive option too. I would be unsure that this kind of test is worth paying out a lot of money for.

The fully UK NHS accredited Regional Mycology Centre in Manchester specialises in the detection of fungal pathogens and are very expert (run by one of the few NHS consultants that work on fungal pathogens) at advising on health implications and next steps as they have access to one of the top NHS mycology teams in the UK mycologymanchester.org/inde...

If you are a patient at the NHS National Aspergillosis Centre this service is often free of charge. If not then a fee applies per sample taken but includes an assessment of the house mycologymanchester.org/info.... The basic fee starts at £110 and is intended to cover costs as a service to the NHS.

The choice is yours.

[sarab09 in reply to DrGraham]

The choice can only be mine if I know about it! Or if my NHS GP who is basically uninterested and even less competent knows about it and will make some kind of referral. Otherwise there is no choice. And how does one get referred from Brighton (where 2 of our NHS hospitals are on measures) to Manchester without just waiting to die? I was referred to Pain Management Clinic here in 2011 and still have not gotten either the specialist physical therapy nor the 3 individual visits with a psychiatrist yet. I am too ill and too tired to fight or do research these days.

But how is this a choice? Especially if you are alone, no family, and 70 years old?? in an NHS system that would prefer all of us over 60 just turn into soylent green!

Sara

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to sarab09]

You can be referred by your GP or hospital doctor. I agree our services are not well known throughout the NHS but things are improving. Awareness of these services and research is a major reason why I run this group for the Fungal Infection Trust.

[Pooeysuey in reply to GAtherton]

My husband has now been referred to Manchester. We are at a stale mate with our landlord who insists the damp was here after our arrival but we have notes from the previous tenants stating damp, but we have no date or specific name on the notes and have been told by our solicitor that we have to prove the damp/mould/fungus was here before us. (The EHO was told not to pursue our case any further by our Landlord's agent, despite having seen our previous tenants notes, so we never even got a visit). We have had a surveyor here whose damp monitor showed penetrating damp, but showed the humidity was pretty good. I am at a loss as to what we do (other than somehow find the people who wrote the notes and get them to confirm what they said). Is there any way, if Aspergillis is found in the house, along with the damp that anyone can say how long it has been there?

[Jonnyj787 in reply to DrGraham]

Hi Dr Graham, my mother who is 80 years old is awaiting an appointment with Prof Denning following a recent referral from her consultant Dr Ian Webster for pulmonary lung infection. She has a abcess and nodules and is extremely fatigued and has been very poorly for 4 months. How would I go about getting her house tested and would I have to wait until she sees Prof Denning?

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to Jonnyj787]

Once your mother is a patient we will assess and recommend a survey if needed. Be prepared for a long day of tests when you get here!

[earthangel1979 in reply to sarab09]

HI. I uphold your praise of Jeff Charlton. He contacted me after seeing my post on surviving mould and was kind enough to provide me with a plethora of information. Am presently pursuing legal action against my Landlord and I'm positive about the outcome. My son and I are still suffering in the home which remains a breeding ground for so many moulds and God knows what else. A Mouldcheck.co.uk analysis yielded results of 50 THOUSAND spores per swab for Aspergillius Penicillin yet Landlord disregarded them. Absolutely appalling, leaving my son and I to continue rotting in the home that has never been fit for anyone to live in for 12 years. I would be honoured to speak with you further and possibly provide you with information relating to my situation that might be of use to you. In any event, it was great seeing your response which I hope assists the member you kindly left it for.

Thank you for reading my response.

Earth Angel 1979

[earthangel1979 in reply to sarab09]

Sara,

Your mention of Jeff Charlton compelled me to respond and I apologise in advance for how extensive my reply is.

Despite the historical water damage of my home (caused by Housing Disrepair), irrefutable negligence, copious evidence (which left a lever arch file bursting at the seams with over 200 pages of supporting information), 37 photos, the involvement of my Local MP AND the first hand professional opinion of Jeff Charlton himself, my Landlord refses to take the act accordingly.

The mouldcheck analysis results came back with a 50 THOUSAND spore per swab count for the toxic mould Aspergillus Penicillin present within the air of our home yet neither GPs, Environmental Health OR my Landlord are willing to concur with my concerns. My son was 3 months when we moved into our home; he was 12 in March this year. I believe the extent to which our health has been affected due is far more serious than the numerous GPs we have seen over the last 2 years is wiling to acknowledge and I totally share your view on how help from both the NHS and Environmental Health is extremely limited.

Regardless of the fact that our situations aren't connected, they're irrefutably comparable, as is our awareness of how our concerns are warranted. I have no doubt from your articulated post that, like me, you have carried out extensive research in relation to the mould issues within your home and now possess a plethora or knowledge that only strengthens your beliefs of how you must continue fighting.

However, I would like to be of assistance to you in whichever way I can and would receive great pleasure knowing that I might help you win YOUR battle in some way. I have spent the last 2+ years educating myself whilst suffering in silence and my knowledge of all aspects concerning relevant issues have grown as exponentially as the Aspergillus population within my loft .

In the event that I am not able to tell you anything of use that you weren’t already aware of, assisting you where pursuing legal action is concerned, could be something I am able to do.

I have found a very good Solicitor who concurs with my belief that I have a very strong case; so much so that he has been willing to represent me with a “No Win, No Fee” arrangement and has actually chosen to represent me for the second time (despite receiving no payment to date for his efforts). If nothing else, I would be very happy to give you his contact details if this aspect of your battle is an area you are yet to address.

I know that your post was made a few months ago and I genuinely hope that things have progressed for you since then. However, in the event that they haven’t, please feel free to contact me as I am more than prepared to help you in any way I can. Liaising via email might be a quicker and more convenient means of corresponding, so I’ll give you my email address. It is [e-mail].

I thank you kindly for taking the time to read my lengthy response and look forward to hearing from you in the near future. In the event that I don’t, I wish you all the best in obtaining a positive outcome and hope that you get the justice you deserve.

Best Wishes,

Earth Angel 1979

[sarab09 in reply to earthangel1979]

Hi Earth Angel! Maybe you actually are! I am going back to bed shortly because I am in extreme pain from a procedure on my sciatic nerve last Saturday afternoon.

But yes, I definitely want to speak to you or email you to meet up with you directly. You did not mention if your landlord is/was private or Council?

Sadly I think are situations and many of those similar to ours are caught between very poor NHS care and a government that really does not care about anyone except their 1%.

For example, having been prodded and tested repeatedly for severe GI tract symptoms (which are in the cluster of 13 listed by Dr Shoemaker) and the type of tests PERMITTED by NHS, the latest consultant has actually written his report including the sentence "she thinks her symptoms are caused by SOME MOLD in her flat"!! Talk about being dismissive and dismissed! "Some mold" after 6 years of water penetration and all of Jeff's testings and 300 plus photos plus discovery that shows the landlord knew that there was ASBESTOS, sewer and toilet problems, and repeated leaks even before I moved in on 11 Jan 2017!

I am down in Brighton---where trains are on strike usually. Where are you? I already have two like minded people down here who have helped greatly with FOI inquiries and Sussex University students are taking photos of other affected flats.

In addition, I am facing the 3 year personal injury deadline in November 2017 so I must file with a solicitor before then so my sense of urgency is nearly overwhelming!!

My biggest problems are the solicitors are more afraid of something new even with all testing showing black mold, aspergillus, etc present plus the appropriate testing for mold diseases (CIRS, mycotoxin,etc) are simply NOT available in UK.

So having fired my latest solicitor---who neglected to respond to discovery from July 2016 thru Feb 2017---I have decided to try the GROUP action (class action) way. Solicitors are greedy and I have not found a champion amongst any I contacted. I now have gotten this down to 3 London firms after meeting with over 15.

But, need 3 to file a group action---so are you ready?? Clearly I am because there is no other way I can afford to move out of my flat, have everything specially cleaned or replaced because of the mold and mycotoxins, nor even get PROPER TESTING AND TREATMENT unless I have excellent and AGGRESSIVE representation.

The really great things about going this way with any of these firms is their reputations (terrier with a bone fighters we need) plus the current anti landlord climate. Most importantly, unless you are an heiress, is the fact that for group action these firms arrange for financing of their own work which is totally different than "no win, no pay" and will include the costs of proper medical testing and the STARTING of treatments in either USA or Europe (I have found experts in Switzerland, France, Israel but there might be more--personally I would prefer USA where Shoemaker and his trained doctors are and the new MRI and MarCon research is all being done).

I have written to you emails separately and privately so that we can respond directly and not overburden this list serve. Because we both know Jeff, I know you are very aware of the deep meanings of our test results and the obstacles we face.

Stay strong! I am here and ready.

[Pooeysuey]

I must admit I don't have much faith in the fact that my Landlord may speak to them in such a way that they feel that they don't need to bother with the lowly farmers!! I work for the NHS and the Surgery I work for is probably one of the most patient orientated I know, but my surgery where I am a patient is a different kettle of fish. I will keep you posted!!

[DrGraham]

You can sample the mould and send it to be identified which can be costly - but if you ask at the centre we will do that for you.

[Pooeysuey in reply to DrGraham]

His Consultant is supposed to have referred him to the NAC so am I able to ring them and ask about the test?

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to Pooeysuey]

It might be worth ringing to see if the referral has come through. Contact details at nationalaspergillosiscentre...

[Bruceproperty]

Please visit globalindoorhealthnetwork.com for some more impartial advice.

Gordon

[Pooeysuey]

The Landlord's agent has persuaded the Environmental Health Officer that the mould wasn't here when we moved in so is now charging us with making repairs to the cottage to make it mould free!!! We are now in the process of employing a solicitor, but I do so need to be able to prove the house was damp before we got here and that there is Aspergillis in/on the walls. We didn't even get as far as having someone come to look at the house let alone do anything about the damp!!! Soooo angry - and we are told we should open the windows and all will be well. Grrrr

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust in reply to Pooeysuey]

This is an example of a situation where you need an expert surveyor on your side. Lifestyle can be a cause of damp but so can house design & fittings, or both can be at fault. The EHO should be impartial or you might be able to get some help from the Institute for Specialist Surveyors & Engineers at isse.org.uk

[Pooeysuey in reply to GAtherton]

We had a surveyor come following my email to the isse.org.uk

[GAtherton Administrator Fungal Infection Trust]

Once you are a patient at NAC we will assess for you subject to it being a potential part of your illness. If you have patches of mould growing on your walls you certainly have a damp problem that needs investigating. nacpatients.org.uk/damp_pre...

[Pooeysuey in reply to GAtherton]

Mr Nigel Cottle is being very helpful and has told me that he is forwarding his report to the NAC, for which I thank him. Fingers crossed we may get the answers we need. You are all so helpful. Thank you.