Has anybody done a back to back cycle with high stimulation? Was embryo quality better or worse than not going back to back?

[Orangeflowers]

Hi all,

Hope your journey's are going well.

i am interested to know if anybody has done a back to back cycle with high stimulation? Was embryo quality better or worse than not going back to back?

The context is that I produce a good number of eggs, but they really struggle to make blast. I am lucky if I get 1 or 2 blasts or morulas.

I am now 43 and time is against me. i m considering doing another cycle on my next period following withdrawal bleed,but I'm not sure if going this soon might affect numbers or quality?

Any experiences appreciated x

[LSV23]

hello! So not quite the same as I did a back to back cycle with low dose stims (due to low egg reserve). My first cycle was really good, but then second cycle barely produced anything and had to cancel. My doctor said it was likely because my body needed a break after the first cycle. Not sure if this helps but thought I would share x

[Orangeflowers in reply to LSV23]

thank you that's helpful to know

[Hidden]

I don’t have any science behind it but I did my second round straight after my first round failed and got a BFP (sadly lost later). This was my longest lasting IVF OE BFP. I often think maybe some of the drugs were still in my system and so my body was better prepared.. but like I say I don’t have any proper medical evidence. I was on top dose (450) menopur both rounds (in fact all rounds!) Good luck x

[Orangeflowers in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for sharing. Were the egg numbers similar on both rounds done back to back? Helpful to know that meds still in the system might be of benefit. I am a bit confused about how much the body needs to reset. I've been on high dose progesterone and I think progesterone needs to be low before collection. Was anything said about that on your back to back from your last transfer? I'm not sure how long progesterone meds take to clear? It must be fast as I usually get my period pretty quickly after stopping taking them. Another concern was that a couple of periods after a fresh round tend to be delayed a bit. I'm not sure if that would affect the optimal timings of the next fresh transfer if back to back or if the new meds put everything on a new timeline. I have a rubbish clinic in the UK and can't get access to Drs to ask and I'm not sure the nurses know. Thanks for sharing experiences

[Hidden in reply to Orangeflowers]

I can't really compare egg numbers as they changed from long to short protocol but long they only got 3 eggs and then short (the second round) I got 13! I am not sure if that was the back to back or the fact they changed protocol but I did 4 more short protocol rounds after this and never got over 7 if I remember rightly or thereabouts, so it was my bumper round. I also got the best ever blasts that I had in any round that round.

Nothing was said about progesterone. As for periods, mine were always a bit screwy after a round but tbh it doesn't matter from a timing perspective for short protocol as the main thing was the ovaries were dormant and the lining as thin, so whether that was Monday or the following Monday it didn't matter as they took that as the 'start' and once I was on the drugs my cycle was managed anyway x

[Mlove12]

I am on my second round and done it pretty much back to back (withdrawal bleed and then started just after first natural period sorry tmi). I’m 28 but have very very low AMH so my thinking was that time isnt on my side and my AMH test was a year ago so dread to think what level it would be now, hence why I was eager to get going. My first round I had 9 follicles, 5 eggs retrieved and 3 made blast, 1 really good grade but BFN and nothing in the end to freeze. I’m not on my second round and had my baseline scan Thursday, I have 6 follicles over 6mm and 6 under 6mm so those under most likely won’t get much bigger tbh. So it’s a strange one as tomorrow I could have my next scan and by a miracle those smaller ones could be getting bigger which would mean I possibly have the same amount of follicles as before or maybe even more if they all grow. I was on 300 gonal-f first round and 375 gonal-f this round by from Thursday they upped me to 400.

I think you have to go with what you feel is best and comfortable with. Like I said I cant comment on results or full comparison just yet but I can sympathise with wanting to ‘just get going’! Hope it all works out for you x

[Orangeflowers in reply to Mlove12]

Thank you so much. I hope 🤞 those follicles grow for you. Let us know how you get on

[Orangeflowers in reply to Mlove12]

Hey, I hope you got on ok. Did the scan show you have similar follicles/ predicted eggs to the first time, or have you collected yet? Xx

[Mlove12 in reply to Orangeflowers]

Morning,

We actually had more follicles and got more eggs, got 8 this time but was short lived as sadly none fertilised. So not sure if this is an egg issue or sperm issue.

Hope your getting on ok x

[Orangeflowers in reply to Mlove12]

I'm really sorry to hear this. That is so unfair. I really hope the next steps work for you xx

[JoyfulStar]

Hi Orangeflowers,

I was 43 when I did back to back cycles of IVF. I was on a relatively high dose- 375 ius of Gonal F and 75 ius of menopur so a total of 450. My body produced more eggs with subsequent rounds and while I saw a huge drop off in numbers, the embryo for the ones that ended being frozen were 2 4BBs and 1 3AB so were pretty good.

I also had success on my third round. I decided to try a fresh cycle and did a double transfer of 2 embryos on day 3. One of them is now my 9 month old daughter.

All the best hun x

[Orangeflowers in reply to JoyfulStar]

That is brilliant! 💜 You mention a big drop off in numbers. After the drop off, did you get a similar number of blastocysts per round ?

[JoyfulStar in reply to Orangeflowers]

Thank you 😊 I did only 3 rounds back to back. I did have one disastrous round though when no embryos made it to day 5. It was why I pushed for a day 3 transfer during my last round.

If you take a look at my profile, you will see the numbers of eggs retrieved and embryos per cycle. The good thing about doing back to back cycles is that you are not putting all your eggs in one basket.

By the way, I had a month’s break between each cycle. So after egg retrieval, I will have a withdrawal bleed then will start the next cycle when my period started the following month.

Hope this makes sense.

[Orangeflowers]

thank you! That's amazing. I know the big national chain does embryo banking with low dose protocols, but I'm not aware of anywhere that does this for high dose protocols in a 3 cycle package at our age. Did you buy each round individually? If not, please can you pm the name of the clinic to me? Xx

[JoyfulStar in reply to Orangeflowers]

I did not pay individually. It was a 3 cycle package deal. I was in London so the clinic is in London. I will definitely give you the details via pm.

[Koala365]

In July I did my clinic's super duper all singing all dancing flare protocol but it didn't work well for me resulting in a cancelled cycle as we were only likely going to get 1 possibly 2 eggs max(but only cancelled after all the stims and at the point we would have triggered if we were going ahead with egg collection). Following my withdrawal bleed, in August I then did the Oestrogen patches to prepare for a max stim cycle I had done before and had yielded better results ie 5 or 6 eggs and always 1 on more embryo or blastocyst to put back in the 4 previous cycles. I started stims of of 150 menopur and 300 ovaleap on 9 September and it looked as though we would get 6 eggs but in the end we only got 4 and only 1 fertilised and we took the decision to do a Day 3 transfer with it when it was described as average. Sadly BFN. It's hard to say whether doing those two cycles so close together affected the outcome or whether it was because there were 11 months since my previous cycle where I got 5 eggs and 3 x Day 3 good quality embryos transferred (also BFN) and I am that little bit older which a 46 as I am now may make a bigger difference than say 30 to 31 etc.

[Orangeflowers in reply to Koala365]

Thank you so much for sharing, this is really helpful to know. I hope things work out for you x

[Fruitandflowers]

I did two rounds back to back - both short protocol and ended up on very high stims for over two weeks each time (I had a v high AMH but my body just ignores the meds for ages for some reason). First time got 9 eggs but very low fertilization and two blasts, albeit top quality. Fresh transfer ended in an early loss, had the withdrawal bleed and then started stims again on the first day of my next natural period. Second time we got 5 eggs and all went to blast - had a chemical on fresh transfer then a successful FET. I suspect that the first round wasn't good as we had an unexpected sperm quality issue on the day due to illness, and the losses were due to progesterone which we fixed on the FET, or maybe as my body wasn't recovered enough on the fresh ones. But it could have been chance. But all I can say is that for me the eggs weren't impaired by the long and high stims and going back to back didn't seem to negatively impact.

[Orangeflowers in reply to Fruitandflowers]

That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you for sharing, much appreciated and encouraging xx

[Axel131]

Hi Orangeflowers, I did a back to back cycle earlier in the year on 375 stims. They produced much the same amount, 9 eggs first cycle but no blasts and 7 eggs next cycle and 1 blast, 2 morulas so second cycle improved the quality. As the protocol was the same for both, short, the only thing I think made the difference was the testosterone gel they had me on both months for 5 days. Mine has always been on the lower side so I think the build up of that might have helped. This round I'm taking DHEA for 3 months beforehand to properly raise it and see what happens but better quality on the second round for me.

[Orangeflowers in reply to Axel131]

That's great. I struggle with slow development and quality, so that's what I'm looking to improve. Thanks so much for sharing. I hope next time works out for you 💜