None left in the freezer - what’s next

[PrincessGurn1984]

Today my third transfer has officially come to an end, feel very deflated and this one has hit me the hardest. Knowing now it’s back to square one with stims and egg collection again. It’s so frustrating as can’t but feel the past 6 months have been a total waste of time. Why aren’t mine sticking at all? Not even a chemical which of course would be awful but means they implant. Mine just don’t seem to stick at all. My stats and everything for lining are perfect. I just can’t understand why there is no progress.

[Bookbroad]

I don’t have advice per say, but just wanted to say I know how you feel. I’ve recently had my 4th failed FET (2 more in the freezer and 2nd cycle paid for already - I’m getting geared up despite the 2 frosties tbh) and the clinic are really none the wiser. I was really naive at the start of this process about how much our treatment plan would be tailored and how much insight the clinic would have about our particular situation. The not knowing and worrying that something might have been missed, or that something really simple might be causing the issue is a constant niggle. I know this doesn’t help but I just wanted to say you’re not alone and if you need someone to talk who understands DM me. Xx

[Savvy_teapot in reply to Bookbroad]

Took the words out of my mouth!

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Bookbroad]

Thank you for your message, it’s so hard isn’t it, I just want a guarantee it will work but I know that’s not a given. Did you PGT test? We haven’t as my clinic doesn’t offer it. But I know there is no guarantees that they implant even if tested anyway! X

[Bookbroad in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Yes you want to feel that your hard work will be worth it in the end right!? I get ya. We are going to do PGT testing as/when we get to round 2. Partially as a potential time saving thing but also I just don’t know how many more failed FET’s I can put myself through and if we can avoid transferring anything that wouldn’t have stuck anyway that feels like a good way to go. I’m 38 in a few months so that has impacted on our decision making also. There are plenty of other options we haven’t opted for due to money/research outcomes but I’m on additional progesterone and blood thinners because my clinic thought ‘why not?!’. I’m also currently on a course of antibiotics just on the off chance I might have an underlying infection that hasn’t been picked up. My clinic have also suggested a medicated transfer, mine have all been natural so far, but again it’s ‘something different’ and that’s basically where my clinic have got in terms of options. I also had a scratch a few months ago - horrible. What options have you tried/are considering moving forward?

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Bookbroad]

I’m 37, 38 in July and I worry about age too! But we only had 3 blasts and had we tested them we might have ended up with none. It’s such a hard decision. All my cycles have been medicated and I’m happy with that approach. Just have to keep going until we get one that sticks but I just want it to happen now 😂

[McQueeny]

I am really sorry, and know how you feel. But sadly, no success in your first cycle is really common…. Every cycle is a learning experience, as much as it’s a horrible way to learn…. And 3 embryos resulting in a BFN could just mean bad luck with embryo genetics.

My first cycle gave us 2 embryos, both failed … second cycle we got our little boy, then a FET from same cycle embryo failed. Third cycle gave us 2 BFNs and a chemical, now going in for no 4 💪🤞🍀 xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

Have you PGT tested? We haven’t, maybe we should. I just don’t know what to do for our next cycle. Want to go again in May and our clinic doesn’t offer testing. But it doesn’t mean that embryos will stick even if you have them tested anyway. So hard to know what to do for the best x

[McQueeny in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

It really is hard. We didn’t test. I think if we got 8-10 embryos from one cycle we might have done, to save ‘wasted’ transfers - but we only ever got 2 or 3 , so didn’t want to risk it and decided to transfer. Though the risks are low there is still a risk to the embryo from doing the test, and there’s also the risk of discarding an embryo that would have actually been viable (significant abnormality wouldn’t develop, but low level abnormality can sometimes correct itself and develop a healthy baby, but the tests don’t distinguish between the two).

It’s a very personal decision, it’s horrible to go through transfer and the 2WW if there’s no chance (I.e significantly abnormal embryo)…. But you are right, even normal embryos don’t always stick x

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

Thanks this is exactly what I had thought it’s like you read my mind. We only had 3 blasts so 1 was a fresh transfer then 2 for the freezer. If we had tested they might have come back saying we couldn’t transfer anyway even if as you say there may have been the chance one could self correct itself x

[McQueeny in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Yup! It’s such an agonising journey. You need to find a way to pick yourself up and go again, and believe that it’ll work - you’ve got really good chances of it working! It’s a numbers game, which is a horrible reality but unfortunately it’s the way it is…. Keeping fingers crossed for you 🤞🍀 xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

I worry because I’m 37 (38 in July!) so feel like time isn’t on our side x

[McQueeny in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

I can totally understand that, but 37 is still great! I was 36 when we got pregnant first time (37 by the time baby was born) and I’m now 39 trying for a sibling (will be 40 in august 😬). It’s not easy but it’s more and more common! I have quite a few friends who had babies in early forties. Totally doable. 💪

You could always go for back to back egg collections and do embryo banking, but there’s obviously a significant cost implication as well as the frustration of delaying transfer.

If you’d want to go down the PGT route to not waste time that’s totally understandable too… xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

PGT testing doesn’t mean you even get a baby at the end of it either though, so it seems like neither option guarantees success. That gives me confidence if you’re 39 and not testing either, surely at some point it must work for us we just need that lucky one egg! Do you mind me asking how many transfers you did for before your first child? X

[McQueeny in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

No guarantees anywhere unfortunately …. I think if there was certainty of the outcome the journey would be so easy - no one would care about the process if you knew the result! It’s the anguish and the fear that are so hard 😥

Yup, just that one lucky one - I think it will work 🍀🤞

Our son was our 3rd transfer. First cycle gave us 2 embryos, neither worked - 2nd cycle gave us 2 again and the first of those gave us our son…. Since starting again we’ve had 4 more transfers (3 BFNs and one chemical) xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

That’s very true! I guess it does take a few goes, but when you read about it online or in passing with people they don’t tell you realistically how long this can take. Like anything you only ever hear the ‘nice’ stories of it working first time etc x

[McQueeny in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

I completely agree…. It’s not until you’re in it that you get the reality of it all. Sadly success rates for each individual cycle are quite low - because so many factors can influence, and there’s a fair amount of luck involved - but success rates are pretty decent if you persevere xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to McQueeny]

Think you have summed it up perfectly there! Perseverance will pay off hopefully x

[Millbanks]

Hi lovely, sorry to hear about your BFN.I feel you.

I had 5 transfers that failed, not a sniff of a line. It’s so frustrating like you say, not even getting a chemical. I just wanted to scream WHYYYY

But after testing my immune panel and taking steroids, our 6th transfer worked. I literally could not believe it having never seen a proper positive test.

There is still hope. Hang in there. Am here if you want to talk xx

[PrincessGurn1984]

Thank you 😘 did you PGT your embryos? We’ve just had our debrief call with the clinic and while they don’t offer it she said it might be something to think about. But I feel like by doing testing we could end up with zero embryos and be worse off. Even with testing it seems they still don’t seem to stick anyway sometimes! Hard to know what to do x

[Millbanks in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

We did, but I don’t think that was the issue (6 of the 8 tested were normal)For us it was a combo of PGS / ERA / immune panel xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Millbanks]

Are you glad you tested? Do you think it had a major impact on your eventual success with it finally implanting? Or more down to the other stuff? X

[Millbanks in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

I am glad because when we had scans and the genetic tests done during pregnancy we were fairly confident that everything would be normal.We PGS tested because we were lucky enough to have a high yield of embryos, so we wanted to make sure we were only transferring genetically normal ones to give us the best chance xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Millbanks]

See that’s my concern because we only had 3 blasts so if we have tested we might have been left with 0! So maybe it’s worth trying them untested just to see if they work, it’s such a tough call x

[Millbanks in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Yes I totally agree, I think if it were me I wouldn’t test 3. But that’s with the benefit of hindsight…PGS testing is controversial anyway as there are theories that the embryos can self correct or that it’s not accurate anyway and therefore sometimes healthy embryos are discarded.

It was the right choice for us but doesn’t mean it is for everyone.. xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Millbanks]

I think it’s still amber on the HFEA website? I am just so on the fence and the same with embryo glue! Really don’t know if to use that either for my future transfers. I wish someone could just make all these decisions for us 🤪

[Millbanks in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Oh that would be so helpful! Xx

[Marisa32]

If you can afford to do the test and you have enough embryos suitable for testing, then go for it. If nothing else, at least you will find out if you are making viable embryos in the first place. Yes, not all viable ones result in a baby but it's a good place to start. If a bunch of viable embryos still don't stick, I would suspect the problem lies elsewhere and do other tests.

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Marisa32]

We only had 3 embryos make it to blast on our last egg collection, so it probably wouldn’t have been worthwhile to do PGT with those low numbers? Hoping we can get more embryos with our next egg collection x

[Marisa32 in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Makes sense. Plus not every blast is suitable for testing. I had only one and it couldn't even be tested. I would say if you get 4+ and all can be tested then it's worth it.

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Marisa32]

I didn’t realise that! I thought you could test all blasts? X

[Marisa32 in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

Nope. It needs to be a particular shape/quality to be tested. My brother who has a chromosomal translocation needed to test all his embryos but only 3 out of 4 blastocysts he had were suitable for testing. Out of the 3 tested, 2 were viable. He has a healthy boy now from the first transfer.

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Marisa32]

That’s really interesting I hadn’t realised any of that! X

[Hidden]

Hello, I’m so sorry to hear your news. We didn’t have success with our first cycle either. For our second cycle, we overhauled our lifestyles. Both myself & my husband started taking multivitamin supplements, exercising regularly & eating much better, cut out alcohol & caffeine and significantly reduced our refined sugar intake ( we still have treats and decaf tea/ coffee). This may not have helped but we did get better quality embryos at our second collection. Obviously this may have been due to adjustment of the protocol etc. We did then get a bfp that ended in miscarriage but we felt it was a step forward.x you guys may already have done all of this . Good luck going forward & hopefully the next round will be the one for you guys.xx

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks this is good advice, my husband is very healthy already, but I must admit I do like to indulge in a chocolate bar a day so I probably need to look at my own diet! Which probably isn’t great and I should stop that. Did you have a break between your cycles in order to make those changes? We are hoping to go again in May for our stims and ec again, having only just had our last transfer in April. But now I’m thinking if we should push it back to June in the hope I can be a bit healthier before then. Would it be worth that delay if it helped? X

[Hidden in reply to PrincessGurn1984]

We unfortunately had a very long delay due to covid, just over a year. We probably wouldn’t have chosen to wait that long. Probably best to have the discussion with your clinic. I don’t think I would have been mentally ready to go again that soon but everyone is different and a change is protocol may be all that you need.x yup, I was exactly the same with a chocolate bar a day etc and I love ice cream🤣. I also didn’t realise how much sugar was in pasta sauces etc. Now I have treat evening on a Wednesday and a Saturday. Absolutely love those days🤣

[PrincessGurn1984 in reply to Hidden]

That’s such a good point because I even eat things like ‘skinny popcorn’ but they actually aren’t healthy those sold as health products are they 🙈 it’s definitely given me food for thought (no pun intended!) thank you for the advice. Is there no fertility network app? I have to keep logging in via a normal desktop link I can’t find it on the Apple App Store x

[Hidden]

No sure about an app. I haven’t found one either.x