What do people mean when they say rounds and cycles? Plus good news stories after 3 failed FETs welcome

[Bookbroad]

Hi all

Probably a stupid question, but I'm looking for some hope to continue on my journey - I'm approaching my 3rd FET OTD and its looking very likely its not been successful again. Obviously I'll wait to test again on my OTD but its not looking good.

When people refer to rounds or cycles of IVF e.g I was successful with my 3rd round of IVF are they generally referring to full cycles (stims, egg collection etc) or transfers? I always assumed they meant full cycles but I just wanted to check this as I feel like these get used interchangeably sometimes.

If anyone has any good news stories following multiple failed implantation I'd love to hear them. I've got 1 4BB left and 2 4BCs, so there's still hope.

Also does anyone knows what the average % chance is that a embryo is chromosomally 'normal'. I keep finding different figures from 10% to around 30%.

Guess I'm just trying to figure out how unlucky we've been compared with the average IVF journey - if there is such a thing! And whether this is most likely just another unlucky transfer or whether there may be something else at play.

Sending everyone strength and hope.

C

[KiboXX]

Hey lovely,

I’m sorry about your negative result. I do think it’s one of those things everyone interprets a bit differently. I’ve always considered an ‘ivf cycle’ to be a round of stimulation, egg collection etc but I sometimes use the term fresh cycle to be explicit. An FET I would consider a transfer rather than a full cycle if that makes sense?!

So I’ve had four IVF cycles and 5 transfers.

In terms of chromosomally normal embryos, I think this is different depending on your age but can vary cycle to cycle. My first three rounds of IVF we had a fresh transfer and nothing leftover to freeze. Our fourth cycle we changed our protocol and did PGS testing. We got three blasts and all three came back normal (we were told this was unusual and we were very lucky!) and so far I’ve transferred two of those and both have been successful (1 year old daughter and 31 weeks pregnant currently).

Hope some of that helps!x

[Bookbroad in reply to KiboXX]

Thanks for your message. Did you do anything beyond the PGS testing? Interested to know what changes you made to your protocol or any additional tests/drugs you tried out.

[KiboXX in reply to Bookbroad]

No problem 😌 We moved to a new clinic for our fourth round and they weren’t happy that my previous clinic had me on a lot of extras without testing me for them (blood thinners, aspirin and intralipids). We had a full blood work up done and also karotyping and everything came back normal so we removed all of those extra drugs. They also changed me from long to short and I had a mixture of two different stims drugs (Menopur and Bemfola) whereas previously had been on just Gonal F.

I think the change from long to short had a significant impact on my egg quality xx

[Bookbroad in reply to KiboXX]

Thanks for sharing those details, really helpful. I'm going to do some research and fingers crossed for my follow up appointment with the clinic

[Millbanks]

Hi Bookbroad,

I agree with KiboXX and usually refer to a full cycle or round as stims / egg collection / embryo freeze - and an FET is a transfer.

I did 4 full cycles and 6 transfers before we had success (currently 35 weeks)

There were times when I did wonder if it would ever work but these are the things we had tested after our first 3 fails:

ERA test for transfer timing (mine was out by 24 hours)

PGS testing of 8 embryos (6 came back normal which is also pretty high percentage for my age (38) )

Immune testing bloods - showed high natural killer cells so was prescribed steroids and intralipids for our 6th FET to lower my immune system and help the embryo implant.

The doctors do often say that it’s a numbers game but I felt I couldn’t keep transferring without testing new things, as it just felt fruitless.

But I know some are not keen to spend lots of money on extras which often seem a bit unconfirmed in their research which is absolutely fair.

For me it was worth every penny, needle and uncomfortable biopsy/blood test.

Best of luck my lovely xxx

[Ajtart in reply to Millbanks]

Sorry to butt in but where about did you get these tests done and how long did you wait? Could you get tests done and not do IVF process with them? I'm based in North and all clinics seem to be down south.

[Millbanks in reply to Ajtart]

I had these tests done at my clinic in london. I don’t know if they’d do them as stand alone tests without you having treatment with them. You could always call and ask though? X

[Bookbroad in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks for your message. My clinic have mentioned tests for NK cells but this was offered as a biopsy which would have delayed my transfer by 2 months - I had a scratch before this most recent transfer - I will not be having that again 🤢. If this can be done by a blood test i'd be really interested in that.

[Millbanks in reply to Bookbroad]

Ugh I know what you mean - not the most fun ever!

Yes you can have what's known as the "Chicago bloods" done. They take about 8 tubes and check your full immune profile - then they can get a really clear picture of what may be needed. Warning though: they're not cheap!

xx

[McQueeny]

Agree that a full round would normally refer to egg collection etc, but I’ve used ‘frozen cycle’ on occasion as it refers to a menstrual cycle in which you’re under treatment? So I agree they are quite interchangeable and to be sure what a person means you just have to ask I’m afraid….

We’ve had three egg collection rounds so far, our second (third transfer) gave us our little boy. Since then we’ve had another egg collection round and 3 transfers (trying for a sibling) and so far no luck - now about to have 4th transfer.

Success rather are so varied, I was told it’s common for up to 70-80% of embryos to be abnormal at our age as I’m 39 and hubby is 53…. Who knows 😣 x

🤞🍀🙏

[Bookbroad in reply to McQueeny]

Thanks for your message, did you change anything for any of your transfers or just kept going with your protocol until you succeeded? xx

[McQueeny in reply to Bookbroad]

The only change we made to the egg collection was a slightly higher dose of stims (because I was older after having our boy) - on the transfer side we did change the progesterone (injections added and higher dose), and also did the ERA test to identify implantation window - so my transfer today is 12 hours earlier than it would have otherwise been…. 🤞

My husband and I have also been taking more supplements for a few months and some lifestyle changes in case we go for another fresh round x

[McQueeny in reply to McQueeny]

Oh and I’ve been going to acupuncture for the past 4 months (but no idea whether it makes a difference, just trying everything - it might well just be an embryo issue 😖) x

[Twiglet2]

Agree with everyone a ‘round’ is usually egg collection and any subsequent transfers from the embryos created from that collection (fresh or frozen), that’s the NHS use of the term anyway when talking about how many ‘rounds’ are funded etc.

For me the 4th embryo worked (I think it was a 4BB or 4BC ) from my first IVF ‘round’ and 3rd transfer after 6 failed IUIs but it can really vary from person to person what the ‘norm’ is before success and you have every chance that one of your remaining frozen embryos will be the one 💜🤗 xx

[Bookbroad in reply to Twiglet2]

Thanks for your message, just wondering if you included any add-ons, additional drugs or tests from one transfer to another. Was there anything different with your 4th embryo in terms of prep/protocol or was it just a case of lucky number 4?

[Twiglet2 in reply to Bookbroad]

It was a frozen transfer and exactly the same protocol as the one before that so nothing different medically at all!, in all honesty the only thing I did different was relax do what I wanted, eat what I wanted etc and go a wee holiday to the highlands for a few days. Could be totally coincidental but I personally believe it brought us that extra bit of ‘luck’ to help the embryo along x

[Solly-44]

Im sorry it’s not looking like good news for you this time 💕

I’m going to be the odd one out! I’ve always called our frozen transfers ‘cycles’ I think just because this is how my clinic has always referred to them. I know most use the other definition though.

We had 3 funded nhs cycles as per our CCG’s criteria - in some areas that means 3 egg collections and as many FETs as occur from them but in ours it’s defined as 3 transfers so definitely worth checking the rules for your area.

In terms of your other questions, we transferred 4 embryos before our son stuck - he was a 4BB the others were a 5AB, 5BB & another 4BB so try not to worry too much about grades. Our next 4BB also stuck but we had a loss.

How many are chromosomaly normal will depend largely on your age. I had my egg collection just after I turned 37 and was told about 50-60% would be abnormal x

[Sandydaiz]

I am the same as Solly-44.. I always referred to fresh and frozen as cycles. I think it's just as difficult so I would give it a full title! Personally, I've had 6 cycles. 1st fresh and failed. 2nd fresh and daughter born(singleton pregnancy). 3rd fresh and failed. 4th fresh and failed. 5th frozen and failed. 6th successful and currently 22weeks. Had twins on board this time but unfortunately lost one at 11weeks. Always on the highest dose of stims. Average about 8 eggs. Always left with 2 blasts. Always transferred 2. Always negative tests except for my 2 successful.

So in 12months, I had 3 failed and one current pregnancy. What I did differently for the last one was they added daily innohep injections from transfer day. This was unfounded and no evidence I needed it but my consultant thought it was no harm to add it and save the money as the test is expensive. They also prescribed a probiotic vaginal pessary for 10days just before egg collection as my ERA found an imbalance in good and bad bacteria. I also added weekly altavita 25000iu vit d for 4 weeks on the run up. My GP prescribed his after I did some research. Other than these 3, everything else was the same as ever. Didn't change my diet. Still had my morning coffee. Did acupuncture on my frozen cycle but left it out this time..wasn't for me. If I think of anything else, I'll come back. Very best of luck to you.

[Bookbroad in reply to Sandydaiz]

Congratulations and many thanks for describing this so thoroughly for me.xx