So it seems that I am most likely on my way to having my second miscarriage. I got a BFP this week but it does not look good. I've now had two ICSI cycles, both of which resulted in two embryos each. Two transfers per cycle, the second of which resulted in a pregnancy both times.
Our first pregnancy ended in a later missed miscarriage after we'd seen a strong heartbeat, due to a genetic problem, a fatal trisomy (we had tests done.)
Our second pregnancy is ongoing buy HCG is not high enough and most importantly is not rising fast enough, so we are certainly (or almost certainly) headed for another miscarriage.
I am 42 and my husband is 50. As sad and devastating as these experiences have been, should I be in some way...encouraged? Or the opposite?
Are these a sign that I am too old to make good eggs anymore and should stop?
Or should we be encouraged that we are sort of *almost* getting there, that at least I am implanting, and try again at least one more time, hoping for a good egg?
We have no previous children. I have had both my Fallopian tubes removed due to double hydrosalpinx, so I cannot get pregnant naturally or by accident and have a miracle baby. We are in a country where PGS testing is illegal, so that is also not an option for us at this time.
In a sense, we now have a 100% pregnancy rate from our ICSI cycles, right? Should this be viewed as good? Or should the focus be on the 100% miscarriage rate.
With each cycle so far I haven't had too many eggs, but have had a decent embryo creation rate that "looked good" (they also don't grade here) with 2 embryos each cycle.
Do you think my chances look good? Bad? Neither? I just don't know how to interpret.
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LuxFleur
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I’m sorry for your miscarriages and loss of your tubes I know how devastating both can be
To be honest at age 42 and if PGS is not available in France I would explore doing a cycle either in the U.K. or another European country where PGS testing is available. Whilst I’m sceptical of it myself I can’t deny that everyone I know who has managed to get a PGS normal embryo did go on to have a healthy pregnancy.
I’m guessing you are paying privately in France or is it funded via insurance/health system over there?
I didn’t. I had 3 euploid embryos at 42 and they all failed. I don’t think that pgt is a guarantee. The 95% success rate study done for three transfers is based on younger women and it still means 5/100 don’t work. I don’t think it’s a guarantee. It’s an extra expensive and to be honest made it harder to know they didn’t work because there was nothing wrong with the embryos… unfortunately ther was no answer as to what was “wrong” as all tests came back clear for both DH and myself. I think pgt has its place but if you have two embryos each time I would just put them back…
Others on here will probably be able to give you better advice but I can only comment from what I've been told. I've just turned 37, with high AMH, husband is 41. We've been delayed for years on getting to IVF and never pregnant naturally, with unexplained infertility. My first NHS round this year we got quite a few eggs but low fertilization on ICSI - we weren't even going to have ICSI but on the day my husband's sample was really poor which was a surprise as it had always been fine. They said maybe he had a cold three months before, it's that fickle. Got 2 top quality blasts, one transferred but ended in CP. Second round (private) fewer eggs but 100% fertilization and they said only one was not worth freezing at day 5 as rest were good so we had 'enough'. Husband's sample back to normal so maybe first round was bad because of that. One transferred but still ended in a CP. Now preparing for FET.
Our clinics see all of this as really good as we get eggs, they mature, they fertilize, develop and implant. And yes 100% pregnancy record, even if short lived. Apparently this rules out a lot of potential issues. So clinics said it's just a numbers game and advised us to keep going. But agree the other way to see it is 100% miscarriage so if this one doesn't work, that feels like it's not chance anymore. You do though see women on here who are on transfer (or even round) 7+ and successful, then others who have made the decision to stop earlier and have a life. All I can say is we're being told it's all good and I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusion it's old eggs and no point, as you've gotten further than us - HCG has never been high for us as development stops early. Plus I was off the pill since age 30 and nothing happened then, so it's not an age thing for us at least.
You may want time to let things pass and to grieve a bit, or to jump straight back in. It's very individual. Sending best wishes for you x
Thank you. I think I want to be optimistic. We also have a decent rate of mature eggs, a 100% fertilization rate of the mature eggs, and a near-100% blastocyst rate from those fertilized eggs. I feel like that has to count for something. AMH is calculated differently here, but I think I have an average AMH for a woman of 42 (not great but oh well) and the FSH of a woman about 4-5 years younger.
I’m sorry for your difficulty. You have said you are in France and that it is illegal there in previous posts. I agree with this poster and would not move forward without PGS testing. Based on my personal experience, which was similar to yours when I was trying to get pregnant without testing the embryos, I feel that maybe if I had done PGS testing sooner, I would have gotten pregnant years earlier. Even when using 20 year old donor eggs, I had a miscarriage before finally getting pregnant. PGS testing prevents you from wasting valuable time which unfortunately isn’t on your side at our age.
No, my advice is to try and go somewhere where you can have PGS testing done. I live in the US and travelled to other states to have certain treatments and I’m imagining you could do the same? Regardless, best of luck with whatever is next in your journey.
If finance is the issue, you should finish your free cycles in France before 43 then think of other options. I finished all my free cycles in France and I am now in UK for PGS and immunology treatment. What I feel is I lost at least 1-2 years time in France even it is for free. And I would rather to pay for myself and get better checked and find out our real problem early. Very disappointed for the treatments I received in France. They never check my progesterone levels after fresh transfer, they keep telling us it is the quality of embryos when I had miscarriages but they don’t do PGS. They don’t check my TSH level and they don’t even think there is a link between immunology issues and recurrent miscarriages. I had to change county to have more options and better treatments. I don’t have better suggestions for you but hope my experiences can help you to choose the best option for you. Good luck!
I think it’s encouraging. I would make sure sperm is good
And do things good for older woman: take DHEA and CoQ10, do early retrieval at 16-18mm lead follicle, and fresh day 3 transfer and continue the rest what you are doing. Good luck!
Hi there! 43ttc, had first early MC at 42, after months of trying . My mother had my sister naturally at 43.5, healthy big baby same with my older sister at 41 healthy little girl. The doctors are so negative, but I am hopeful, I found this article a very good read thecut.com/2017/09/ivf-abno....
You may also be interested in this, they specializes in older pts. Over half are 40+ . I think 43 is their average age now. The website has tons of videos on older Ivf patients … also talk about harmful results of PGS testing… my be worth a look !🙂centerforhumanreprod.com/
Their oldest successful ivf mom was almost 48! Using her own eggs!
The USA/ Canadian border is still closed , I’m on my first Canadian IVF cycle… not impressed at all. I have one fertilized egg day 2, out of 5 retrieved 😟. I will find out Tuesday if I can freeze. Will do one more cycle up here while I’m trapped 😵💫thanks COVID.
I’m 42 after two rounds of our own, my husbands 59 now, we cut our loses and went with a donor egg from my much younger sister whereby I’m nearly 23 weeks from the first transfer.
Us older ladies have a 5% chance of success - if you have a big bank balance to keep going then yes you might find ‘one’ lucky egg, it has taken people on here up to 9 rounds to find one. but if you haven’t then you may want to assess your other options.
I had PGS testing done in the second round and it told me the embryos were chromosomally abnormal so they went in the bin - you may have one that shows as normal but still fails, it’s a risk you take
I would personally feel encouraged by the fact you had implantation. It can be a numbers game although yes it an be tricky getting a good embryo in your 40s but it can be done and you have 2 cycles left. The other option which I'm not sure that your up for is DE but I'm guessing that if PGS is illegal then so is DE but could perhaps travel to another country as I did but understand that's not for everyone! Take care of yourself!xx
I had a chemical after my round with IVM. Now trying out IVF so I know how you’re feeling.
The fact you’re getting pregnant obviously means your womb is receptive and once you get the right embryo you won’t have concerns about it sticking.
I don’t know about age or egg quality because it varies hugely from person to person but I would say that although you have not yet come away with a baby, you’re definitely on your way - whether you use your own eggs or a donor’s.
Don’t give up, unless it’s what you really want. I don’t think I can go through all this again even though I’ve paid for a multi cycle. It takes a hell of a lot of my energy, mentally and physically and if things don’t work out I will have to walk away.
You seem very well informed and understand both sides completely. As you say, you have 100% pregnancy rate from cycles!! Yes you also have 100% miscarriage rate (I am sorry to hear this) but you know you can get pregnant and you just need one good one. Even if you had very low amh (and I see yours is about average for your age) you can still produce a good one!! It is just a numbers game and it depends on how you can cope emotionally (and financially!) with keeping trying until you get the one! It may be on your next cycle, or it may take a few. There is no way of knowing. But it is definitely possible at 42 (even if a bit more difficult).
Also don't worry too much about not being able to do PGTa. Like you say it's not an option anyway, so no need to keep considering. But also it's only really useful if you have lots of embryos and want to select. When you create only a couple per cycle you may as well try them anyway! (yes you may be putting back abnormal ones until you find the right one, but it would cost the same to test (or more) as it would to put back in!) so may as well give them a try to implant. It really just depends how long you can keep going! The liklihood hood is you could create a good one and you know your body can support it when you get it. The main thing I would be trying is a multiple transfer. If you are getting a couple of embryos per go, are you allowed to transfer them both at once? It's not uncommon to do double or even triple transfer if you're a bit older as the liklihood is one or more might not be able to implant anyway. I wonder if that is allowed where you are?There are also ways of tweaking your protocol to try to produce better quality eggs and fertilisation rates. Might be worth looking into that?
But overall I'd say it is possible (as you know). Looks promising for you once you find the right one. And how many can you afford to do both financially and emotionally. (I've done 4 FETs, 5 embryos but it is emotionally draining and feels like more!) I have the opposite problem and I know I have normal embryos but they just won't implant! Either way it's draining and hard but I'm gonna keep going!
So sorry lovely 😢 I would be encouraged that you are falling pregnant (I was with my chemical) so those conditions are right. That can be the hard part for a lot of people. Although your egg numbers are lower it’s also encouraging that you are getting a couple of day 5s each time. It’s a shame they can’t do the testing to check further with embryos though to save you going through that heartache again. I take it all your progesterone levels etc were okay to sustain the pregnancy? If it were me I would try another round and hope for an embryo that stuck, if you can move treatment to somewhere where they can test though that could save you some of the unknown but if you can’t I wouldn't give up hope. Plenty people fall pregnant without the testing. It was our 4th ‘poorer quality’ embryo that stuck so it is really just a game of chance sometimes with whether the embryo is viable or not sending hugs 🤗 if you can emotionally and financially try again I would. You might even want to consider donor eggs down the line but I’m not sure yoj are there yet xx
I think the real question is how you cope with all this. As long as you produce an egg, and the egg fertilises, and you start a pregnancy, you can have the hope that it's going to happen sooner or later. But hope can be addictive, and you must take care of your mental health too. Going down the donor egg route may make things easier, but only if you are ready to accept the "biological bereavement" that your child won't have your genes. Because when go for donor, then you can't keep thinking "if I tried just once more, I'd have my biological child".
I have quite a few fertility friends who think "if I just went down the donor egg route sooner, I may have spared myself a lot of grief, my child would have a younger mum, I may have had the time to have another one". None of them make any fuss of the child's genes. But they already processed the biological bereavement before going through the new journey.
And, given that you fell pregnant "easily" both times, I think having a donor gives you a very high chance to quickly have a healthy baby. Clearly your uterus is working perfectly fine.
Good luck with your journey, whatever that might lead you.
I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you. But wanted to let you know I've been following your journey and wishing it was better news for you. Thinking of you x
Natural pregnancy here at 42 after many miscarriages and 2 ivf babies. So older ladies do have good eggs too. I'd finish the 2 free cycles and see what happens. Good luck
I personally would be encouraged, I think its horrible bad luck but as you say your embryos are good and your eggs are good.
I think PGS is overrated (personal opinion) and not 100 foolproof.
have you have repeat MC bloods for sticky bloods etc? If not I would get those run as a precaution. Possibly talk to your doctor about blood thinners and/or steroids. But personally as I say I would be encouraged. You are getting pregnant and if you are mentally strong enough I am sure its only a matter of time before you have a successful pregnancy x
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