Evening all. I just had a failed round of IVF and egg quality was cited as the main issue.
I did do some preparation for the cycle in terms of supplements, diet, exercise etc... I didn’t take it too seriously though. I was lured into a false sense of security as my AMH is at the higher end of my age and my antra follicle count is good.
I am really ready to knuckle down and be super on it for the next cycle with exercise, supplements, fertility diet, meditation etc...
Here is my question - can you really improve your egg quality or have you really just got what you have got? Does anyone have a story of having a failed cycle and the doing all the recommendations and having an improved outcome?
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I did 5 cycles in 18 months - I truly believe the only thing which made a difference to my egg quality (which was rubbish!) was getting the right mix of drugs/protocol that suited my specific hormone levels for that month. I tried everything going in terms of diet, lifestyle, exercise, supplements, fertility acupuncture etc.
I’m currently pregnant with twins from an egg collection in January (part of a 3 cycle embryo banking package) - this was the first week of the year after weeks of doing everything wrong - drinking alcohol, bad food, general bad lifestyle.
This is compared to my final egg collection in July after lockdown and 3/4 months of doing everything “right” - I didn’t get any blastocysts from that cycle hence why we had to thaw our January ones.
The difference between the January and July collections was the protocol - January was natural modified and July was short protocol.
I went from 30% fertilisation and terrible egg quality on short protocol to 100% fertilisation and top quality when doing natural modified IVF
Well first congratulations - wonderful news. Thank you this is really interesting. I just had a mild cycle with ABC but there was nothing personalised about it. They describe it as “IVF in a box”. Do you mind me asking which clinic you are with?
I was with ABCs more expensive sister clinic. ABC are cheap because it’s more of a one size fits all approach and you’d need to look at other clinics for a more tailored approach but it does become expensive as you need multiple rounds to tweak things to get it just right x
Hey I’m really interested to hear more about your journey! I have very very low AMH and severe endometriosis. I’m at Create, just literally got given the plan for natural modified treatment as a 3 cycle plan. Is that where you were as I see that ABC is in partnership with them? X
Hi yes I was with Create and for cycles 3-5 did a natural modified 3 cycle package and am pregnant with twins with 2 more top quality blastocysts frozen x
Hiya, I was recently in a similar situation to you. Also have good AMH for my age and did two cycles with ABC thinking it they work well coz of that. But they both went really bad, collected two eggs, then one. It took me two fresh cycles with them to realise they didn’t suit my needs & they didn’t offer up that info either. I did my own research and have now moved to a new clinic, albeit a lot more expensive, but they’ve given me a personalised protocol and meds to help promote my follicles to grow, and I feel so much more positive about the upcoming cycle. I don’t think ABC’s one size fits all protocol works for many women sadly and they sell it like it’s this amazing deal.
Also if you read it starts with the egg, you can potentially improve egg quality with certain supplement if you take them three months before a cycle x
I do believe you can help egg quality - high doses of ubiquinol (300 to 600mg daily), wheatgrass, pqq, inositol, melatonin. Inositol helps regulate blood sugar which helps quality. Pqq enhances the effect of ubiquinol. There is also dhea but I know little about it when you have good egg reserves. I have low reserve and dhea helps me. But before taking it you should test dhea-s levels and testosterone levels as if you don’t have low levels of these it’s not a good idea.
I don’t believe that egg quality can be improved. Yes supplements can help, if taken for a loooooong time before a cycle (ubiquinol included), but unfortunately the quality of eggs is linked to the age factor- the higher the age, the lower the quality and genetic material inside it...which is all that matters.
I am 40 and have the AMH of a 30yrs old, I’ve always had top quality embryos that reached day 5, but when I got pregnant I miscarried at 11 weeks. So I tested my frozen embryos and they were all abnormal. Yet their morphology was ‘fantastic’. And I was on supplements: ubiquinol, folate, vit D, omega 3....
Oh, and I have a perfect nutritional plan, I exercise, don’t smoke don’t drink..... a very boring person ahahaha 😉
I’m 42 with low AMH. When I did my first cycle, I wasn’t serious either and had everything going as usual. When that cycle failed due to poor egg quality, I decided to make an effort and change my life style. Did lot of research and started taking DHEA, CoQ10, melatonin, VD, fish oil and prenatal. Also had acupuncture once a week and stoped drinking. Joined colleagues for a 100-day HIIT challenge and lost 7.5kg in three months. Then returned to my doctor to do a second cycle. I’m 16 weeks pregnant now.
I’m not sure if any of the above really helped or how much they helped. For the second cycle, I only have three eggs retrieved and one fertilised after all. Seems more lucky than anything else. But at least I think I have tried my best and I was more hopeful.
I agree that the protocol makes more difference. Before my first failed cycle, I also had a few cancelled cycles. All of them were high dosage stimulation and my body didn’t respond at all. This final cycle, I used Clomid and low dosage only from the second week. My OB thinks it was more resemblance to natural pregnancy and that’s why it worked.
Hey Yehong78 congratulations! That's amazing. I am 43 and with low AMH but my doctor has advised me not to try another cycle ... Can I get more details about your modified natural cycle..I might go back to him and discuss further...xx
Clomid 50mg from day 2 for the first 5 days and then continue and add in GonalF 75 IU till retrieval. Monitor the growth of the follicles of course. Kindly note that my body doesn’t respond to high dosage (up to 600 IU) of GonalF, but responded to Clomid perfectly well. Cheers
If you don’t mind me asking, What is your amh? I have a very low and am interested in doing a lower dose cycle, although my fs is keen to put me on a high dose.
Hiya, my AMH is 2.7 ... Am 43. Only got two eggs retrieved from my first IVF last month..but both fertilised and were transferred on day 3 but no joy (chemical pregnancy apparently) xx
Yes you can it takes 3 months for new eggs to be made. I am working with a wellness coach who is helping me by monitoring blood levels, with supplements, diet, Lifestyle let me know if you want her details x
Hi Missionofendo, do you mind sharing the details of your lifestyle coach please? I want to do what I can to prepare for our procedures which should be starting soon
Hi! I had really low amh for my age and was advised to take DHEA supplements 3 months before I started treatment. I got 4 eggs, 1 died, 1 graded A1 the other 2 AB1/2. My first ivf produced my daughter now 3, I froze the other two, 1 didn’t work I am now 11 weeks with my last egg. If I was going through it all again I would take DHEA supplements and I would recommend it to anyone trying!!xx
Was the embryo quality tested or it was an assumption made due to your age?
When it comes to the amount/quantity of our ovarian reserve this is all we will ever have, dropping lower every month but all the research, data and my experience shows that quality can be improved!
There's a book IT STARTS WITH THE EGG, but I believe it starts with the sperm too! If you're TTC with a donor sperm then it should be of best quality but if you're TTC with your partner, their sperm should be tested and improved too! The truth is that with age eggs quality will be lower and egg's job is to correct sperm DNA fragmentation while processing into the embryo so why not making sure that sperm is of prime quality? It only takes 120 days to improve sperms paramiters, eggs about 6months (unless you've been on that journey for a while)?
Coq10 is good but some can't absorb ubiquinol and respond better to ubiquinone. Same for folic acid, as MTFHR mutation is so common! Not to mention clotting disorders and autoimmune conditions.
Yes, there is A LOT to affect the eggs quality from you fridge to your bedroom!
I hope this message helps and gave you some hopes?
For any individual needs please reach out individually with your unique situation as there is no one approach fitting all and never ever followed Dr Google's advice when it comes to your fertility!
Educate yourself to get the results you desire in the shortest possible time
Hi there. Thanks for this very thoughtful response. No embryo quality wasn’t tested. My age is 36 and my AMH is 28.9 and I have a healthy BMI so an assumption was made it would be fine. I have read “it starts with the egg” but the woman who wrote it only had one cycle of IVF and she was 29 so she doesn’t actually have a test case for comparison. What I a really interested in is people who have made lifestyle changes and got a tangibly better result. I mean I am still going to do all the supplements and exercise etc.... but really wanting to hear some stories from people who got with the programme and got pregnant as a result. 😬
I was and am really fit, I play a lot of sport .I was running up to 8months of my pregnancy and am doing it since 8 weeks with this one. I started taking all my supplements DHEA vit d folic acid vit e 3 months before. Ate right I did everything I was told too. I truly believe the DHEA played a huge part in improving my egg quality - they weren’t tested (I think someone asked above) but I believe they were made stronger by those supplements xx
Hey, I think the egg quality question is the million dollar question! I sound a bit similar to you in terms of age and AMH, although possibly a bit further down the road. I have had 4 egg collections and 7 transfers, 1 pregnancy lost at 7.5 weeks . I followed it starts with the egg book quite closely on a lot of the advice. I definitely believe ubiquinol helped me, I took 600 a day. I also tried 25mg of dhea. Sadly I haven’t had success. Sorry to put a not positive story on here, but I think it’s also important for us to be aware sometimes no matter what we do, take, try etc sometimes it just doesn’t work. Egg quality for me (and many other!) really is a mystery! 🙏 all the best xx
Lets start with the 20 mins and then see if we need the 90 mins. I need to go just now but if you message me your details and possibly suggest some slots then we can get something organised.
Thanks for sharing and I am sorry to hear it’s been a difficult journey. You have perfectly articulated what I have been thinking- it IS a mystery! Xxxxx
I had many cycles with horrible egg quality - the only cycle in which I had great results was when I religiously took dhea and had an ovarian rejuvenation. I’m not sure if this offered everywhere but they basically inject your own platelets in to your ovaries. I truly believe it made a substantial difference.
It’s so tough isn’t it? I think I truly am “unexplained”. All the way along I have been told there is nothing wrong with me. I have also tried different protocols and medication, but now I’m on the path to acceptance and also open to the other ways families can be created 🤗 xx
Darling, that really confirms nothing about your wellbeing and reproductive health is just an extension of our overall wellbeing. You are still very young to make a shift in your mindset, lifestyle and diet! Xx
I had mine improved by adding vit D (turns out i was deficient), NAC, sleep as long as I want to, do moderate exercise ( not heavy sweating / exhaustive ones) , eats lean protein (an egg a day), n daily berries for antioxidants. I went from have 1 embryos to having 6 embryos. ( i took folate, Ubiquinol, multi-V on both cycles but the difference kicks in when i look after myself on stress & rest, intake of antioxidants & protein/collegen). And I also came off my hyperthyroid meds and minimize allergies.
Now I m hoping my embryos can pass the Pgt-a test.
Hi Islwyn, can I ask what dose of vit D you took? I have been thinking about doing 2000IU as I have seen that number kicking around in forums but people recommend testing themselves first. Fingers crossed for you pgt-a results 🧡
I was boarderline deficient so I was on 10,000 IU for 2 weeks then 3000-5000IU per day. If i stayed indoor and no sunshine , then 5000IU. If I am out on sunny day for walks, then 3000IU. (Please note I live in Asia, so there is a bit more sunshine 😂). I would get it tested if possible.
I havent retest but I probably should before transfer as it affect implementation more than egg quality (doc told me that)
Asia vs a scottish winter 😂 I probably need tons of the stuff, thanks for the reply, I'll see who I can get a test from, I had looked at online testing companies but from reading around I'm not sure how reliable they are!
Hi, I really feel for you as I am currently battling this same problem. I have a good AMH and am 36 too, I respond well to IVF, create good embryos but when I PGS tested them they were all abnormal. Egg quality has been cited as the problem. Two things I wanted to raise - firstly, I have now consulted with four doctors, one who is a more conservative NHS doctor specialising in recurrent miscarriage (I’ve had three) and they all recommended CoQ10 (or preferably ubiquinol, which is absorbed better) and say that studies have shown great results with it. So yes, I do believe you can improve your egg quality. Secondly, your AMH level actually sounds very high. (There are some useful charts online so you can see whether you fall into a normal range for your age.) Do you have PCOS? They have been checking me for PCOS because even though my AMH (14) and antral follicle count isn’t suggestive of it, I react to IVF like someone with PCOS - I.e. I produce a lot of eggs (22 last time) but a lot of them are poor quality and only a small proportion get fertilised. Thirdly, have you investigated immune issues? High levels of natural killer cells can also affect egg quality, but with immune treatment like steroids, IVIG/intrallipids, etc, I think you can improve the situation. I’m under a recurrent miscarriage specialist who has identified this as a problem for me, so I’m on several immune treatments now with the aim of not only improving my chances once pregnant but in getting a good embryo in the first place! I hope this helps. xx
Really interesting. Thanks so much for sharing and I am so sorry to hear about your recurrent miscarriages. It so painful. I really do hope your doctor and the immune treatments resolve this issue.
No one has ever suggested PCOS I have to admit. My level is within the normal range for my age although it is towards the top end. I am doing coq10. This is honestly really helpful. I went to a cheap clinic who offer ‘IVF in a box’ so my plan is now to change clinic to one that will offer me a more personalised service like the one it sounds like you are getting. Thanks again for highlighting the possibility of PCOS as at least I can now raise it with my consultant. Xxxxx
That sounds like a really good idea to change clinics. I know you mentioned you did mild IVF this time, but I think if you go somewhere more personalised for treatment there’s probably a halfway house - every doctor I’ve spoken to says that I need to change the protocol, as it’s clearly not agreeing with me. Twice I did the short protocol and I have no embryos to show for it now. My IVF clinic are going to do a milder stimulation on me next time, but not so mild that I only get a handful of eggs and waste my money. I think you’d really benefit from this kind of personalised approach. And if you pick a clinic that is a champion of immune issues too, you can try these kind of treatments in addition and see if that makes a difference. One other supplement I’d really recommend, especially if you’re borderline PCOS like me, is Inofolic. They’re a little pricey but you take a couple of sachets a day, dissolved in water, and it helps with egg quality. Good luck and keep me posted on your journey! xx
At last someone who took the matter in her hands! I salute your intelligence and courage. I know this all will take you to the healthy and happy pregnancy outcome. PLEASE, make your diet, lifestyle and mindset fertility friendly too!
Or contact me directly for any help, advise
Xx
I just want to say be careful with DHEA - your AMH isn’t low and it’s generally advised if people have a low AM? I took it without medical advice (my consultant said not to bother) and i had terrible side effects xx
I am pretty useless when it comes to fitness and healthy eating.
However I really went for it with one of my 3 IVF cycles and cut out caffeine and any sugary, fatty food. Ate loads of nuts,dried apricots, brown bread and rice etc.
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