What to ask at failed IVF cycle 1 rev... - Fertility Network UK

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What to ask at failed IVF cycle 1 review appointment tomorrow?

RhinoCat
RhinoCat

So aside from asking WHY THE HELL DIDNT IT WORK 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 what should I be finding out?

Only things I can come up with are;

1.Why such poor response to stims protocol? What changes do you suggest for next round?

2.Why no scan on transfer day or blood checks ?

3. Should we get a refund for our second private cycle, do the nhs turn which we are now at top of waiting list for( to learn without financial cost ) then return to private if we need it?

4. How do I get 29 top grade embryos for the freezer immediately ? 🤣🤣🤣😂😂

Seriously though, what else should I be asking ?

Thanks in advance kind ladies

Hugs

Rhinocat x 🦏 🐈

56 Replies
oldestnewest

I think probably the most important question is how you move forward now and what they will change next time. I think you need to get your specialist to look at eash stage of the process and work out what worked and what didn't.

I felt a lot of clarity after our first meeting and it really helped us to move on. Good luck x

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to MiskyB

Yeah , I’d like more detail about sperm quality etc I’m a geek about the detail and it wasn’t discussed . All 5 fertilised but I don’t think any made it past day 6 realistically speaking . but also trying to trust so I don’t drive myself batty. Thanks Misky B 😘

Hidden
Hidden in reply to RhinoCat

If embryos get to day5 they are strong enough to implant....sperm defects affect the egg in the first 3 days....when embryos pass that stage it’s down to the mothers genetic stuff

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

Crappy eggs then . This I fear , but I’ve committed to the journey , so if I find this out as fact, I’ll not be too shocked. If you’re not in and all the rest

Hidden
Hidden in reply to RhinoCat

There are options for whatever the issue is- important thing is to find out what can help. But as I said, every cycle is different. My first IVF, I had 8 eggs and only 2 fertilised but they weren’t looking good so I had a 2d transfer (which obviously failed). This one I had less eggs but better quality and I even end up with 2 Frosties. Unfortunately you never know what’s gonna happen (I did improve my lifestyle- diet & exercise) xxx keep me posted

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

Yeah, diet and exercise are things I’ve changed too. Must get back to running again now. I have a terrible feeling that I’m heading to menopause ( polyp, low egg count, slowed metabolism past few years etc etc ) and may have missed the boat . Time will tell, hope tomorrow at least offers hope of some kind.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to RhinoCat

Have you had an AMH test? If not you can ask for that... but I have my fingers crossed hun 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

I’ve 6.8 amh which is low but normal for age bla bla bla 🙄

Picalilli99
Picalilli99 in reply to Hidden

That’s interesting Issy. I’m sure I’ve read on here before women have said the opposite, that development issues from day 3 onwards tends to point to a sperm issue whereas day 1-3 is more about egg quality. It’s all so confusing! Ours deterioration/poor development tends to be after day 3 so would defo be keen to hear more. We are probably moving to DE next but if it’s a sperm issue too then we might still experience probs. Let us know what they say RhinoCat . We have our follow up on 28th so will also ask for a bit more info xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Picalilli99

Yeah I had read day 1-3 egg, day 4 sperms turn to do stuff 🤷🏼‍♀️😂 totally confusing eh 🎢🤯

I’ll ask this about eggs tomo and update what the consultant says. It just so happens this guy is top bloke and has been involved with ivf since very first go in Ireland etc. So I’d say we could trust his answers 🤗

Picalilli99
Picalilli99 in reply to RhinoCat

Sounds like the man in the know! Good luck lovely. I hope it’s helpful. I’ve always found it good having the follow up as it allows me to start making plans (I’m always better when there’s a bit of a plan 🤣) xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Picalilli99

Same 👯

Hidden
Hidden

Hey Rhino! 🌸I’m afraid they won’t be able to answer your best question (WHY THE HELL IT HASNT WORKED), I’ve tried that and got a ‘percentage game’ kinda answer. I don’t know what kind of hormones dose you were on while stimming, and if they can increase to try get a better response (I was on a high dose but was unhappy to only have 4 follicles, have complained and they put me on maximum dose- so I got 1 more follicle!) - but it’s likely that they will say ‘quality over quantity’. We stress so much about HOW MANY eggs but in the end I had 5 collected, 4 fertilised and 3 5d embryos (which is a very good thing for my age- 39!). Every cycle is different so next cycle you may produce more eggs while under the same stimulation 💪🏻

Other than that- when can you start is up to you....did you do a guided transfer?(with ultrasound that ensure placement of embryo). I don’t think it’s protocol to do bloods on transfer day, but you can totally ask that.

Hope this is helpful- I am, of course, bloody rooting for you 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈

Sending lots of love!!!! Xxxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

Thanks pet.

No guided transfer! This has disturbed me ever since! Wish I’d asked where was scanner ?

I was happy with my 5 eggs, just not with the amount of embryos etc. But that’s prob down to my age and wonky slow tailless sperm 🙄

Hidden
Hidden in reply to RhinoCat

Have you done ICSI? We have, I just wanted to ‘ensure’ fertilisation...yes a guided transfer is definitely worth asking. Don’t understand why they didn’t do it...

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

Yeah we had to have ICSI because of sperm ( low count , poor motility , abnormal shape (morphology ) mmmm yeAh, me too

Hey hunny, there was no scanner at ours either but the nurse explained that my uterus was measured on egg collection day and the exact spot where the wanted the embryo to go was chosen. The catheter is then adjusted to fit exactly where they want the embryo to be released. Xx

Oh that’s reassuring . I’ll hopefully be told the same . Thanks 🙏🏻

Hi lovely, I had so many questions after our first failed IVF cycle in November... we had 8 eggs all matured, 6 got fertilised and were doing very good till day 3 however on the transfer day we've been told only one has developed to blastocyst!!!

Many told me its my eggs and also after reading its all starts with the egg, I was sure its egg quality. On the review we've been told that it was sperm quality!! and next round we will do ICSI and not IVF!!!! I was happy to hear that because I know there is not much you can do for egg quality and very mad as I was thinking how on earth we didn't know this before!!!

I've been told they are aiming to get even more eggs to have more chances ...in terms of medication what they have changed for the second round is a new Injection call Buserelin and they have also given me a higher doze of Menopur and of course the whole ICSI to get a better outcome....

The way I see it, they treat the first cycle like a trial, to see how we responding... which is really shocking.....

To prepare myself I have gave up caffeine and alcohol completely (ok I had so much on the new year but only then) also I've been on Ubiquinol and fertility vitamins... I haven't let my husband even to have a glass of wine....

Where we live, the whole process of egg collection and and embryo transfer is happening in a private hospital and even the doctor that I usually see works at the private hospital and to be honest NHS has been ok during last round, If you are sure you don't have to wait so much and if you don't mind waiting for your appointment then why not NHS...

best of luck ❤️, let us know how the review went. xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Mara84

Thank you, yes we already know our sperm issue is a big problem . That’s why I found it strange there was no comments made about it on egg collection and sperm collection day. Surely they should have commented same way as they did they eggs? ( eggs all mature and perfect for fertilisation )

I remember the day the screen was brought up to show the results before we started our cycle and not only was each of ours in red but four had a big red exclamation mark and we were put on nhs for ICSI immediately . Fun times eh ! We were still told we had a chance though so , trying not to give up just yet.

They were shocked at scan when I had poor response and consultant asked ‘what was your amh?’. Was too late to change. I wasn’t on highest side so maybe that’ll be thought about it totally different meds altogether.

I just think they need to learn more and same staff work in both places. I’d rather my final go private if that makes sense?!

Mara84
Mara84 in reply to RhinoCat

Of course you have chance, do not give up!

On my first cycle we started with a very low and changed on the second week... well hopefully they have learnt they lesson and we both have a successful round ✌🏼

Hi Rhinocat! Best advice I can give is to ask the consultant if you could review each stage of your process in detail to see what possible changes you can make next time and to be honest it helped us loads. We picked apart each stage such as the meds being too strong for me at stimms, changing IVF to ICSI etc. We walked out with a new more refined plan and additional scan dates through stimm stage to ensure fresh not frozen transfer and no OHSS. Plus additional supplements like co-q10 and acupuncture for healthy blood flow etc. Fingers crossed the changes make a difference 🤞🏼

Good luck for tomorrow hopefully you’ll leave feeling good with a gameplan for next time and a boost of positivity. Best of luck Xx

Must ask about this co-q10 thing. It’s all I see. My dr told me to take a multi vitamin and not to worry about expensive brands .

Where did you get your coq10 stuff? What mg dose you on ? Brand?

Italy300618
Italy300618 in reply to RhinoCat

Hey RhinoCat, we are on Qunol. You can get it off amazon, it's more reasonable than some, its coq10 in ubiquinol form which is meant to be more absorbable by the body. I'm on 400mg a day and hubby 200mg.

Have you also had any immune tests done?

We have sperm issue, however consultant wanted to do some tests on me as some of these can indicate reasons for poor embryos.

I had thyroid one and antibody one done last week, they also say you can have natural killer cells tests and 'sticky blood' test...I know theres a bigger word for it, most commonly done for recurrent miscarriages but can also signal immunity problems which can have affect on quality of eggs.

However I was told today these 2 tests are just under 2k! So we cant afford it, but just wanted to let you know in case any of these things can be asked tomorrow. Good luck lovely xx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Italy300618

Thanks for this, interesting that you’ve said thyroid because I had a lump on my thyroid years ago and would often be tired, my gp friend said to ask more about this too . Thanks

Ours is Kirkland Signature from Costco, we both take 300mg a day but seen a lot of ladies on here take a higher dose. Heard so many positive stories about it so be worth having a go. It’s a strong antioxidant and helps mitochondria produce energy which assists cells. In fertility it helps with egg quality. Good luck for today Xx

Thanks

Did you do long or short protocol? I tended to respond much better on short than long but I know it’s the opposite for others so can be helpful to switch up and try both. You could maybe ask about AOA. we had a much better fertilisation rate and slightly improved embryo quality in the round e used it. Not really sure of much else but am sure there will be suggestions from other women who have done lots of other tests etc. I would just say that there can be so much variation from cycle to cycle, so just try not to be disheartened and know that your next round could be THE one. Lots of luck at your follow up. I hope it’s helpful and that they are keen to consider anything they can tweak for you xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Picalilli99

My protocol was :

Prostap Down reg for two weeks

Then menopur 11 days

Then trigger on Monday

Egg collection Wednesday

Freeze all because they found a huge polyp in my uterus

Is this long or short ?

Picalilli99
Picalilli99 in reply to RhinoCat

Hmmmm I’m not sure sorry. I thought that if you were down-regulated first then that’s the long protocol - whereas short there is no down- regging you just start stimulation around day 2-3 of your cycle. But I could be wrong. Worth asking about xx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Picalilli99

Yeah, I was wondering did I need it in the first place as my eggs went into winter hibernation after it 😂🤣

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Picalilli99

I just googled a research thing than says it’s maternal roll up to day 3 then after sperm kicks in . You remembered it correctly 😘

Kwags
Kwags in reply to RhinoCat

This is very informative, hmm... My hubby's sperm was probably full of the vaping liquid! I've got him off that now and onto multivitamins.

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Kwags

Yes my husband is now banned from alcohol and I’ve asked him to join me in the herbal tea routine 😁

KayCan
KayCan in reply to RhinoCat

Hi there sorry for butting in, sounds like the long protocol. Its maybe worth asking to go on the short next time, as you don't down reg and then have to get the ovaries fired up again during stimulation. I ended up on the short, due to my age and low AMH, as the consultant advised that my body might be sluggish when trying to fire those ovaries up. Might be worth an ask, and less stress on the body. Hope it goes ok xx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to KayCan

Yeah, that’s what I felt , it was only near end that my ovaries played ball . Thanks for your input 😘 I’m defo going to ask that now 💐💖

KayCan
KayCan in reply to RhinoCat

😘

Hi RhinoCat,

How are you feeling lovely?

I know there are some vitamins called profertil for men that friends have told me have enormously helped their men’s sperm.

It only takes one sperm though 🤞

Have you done frozen cycle or fresh? If frozen perhaps consider pgs testing?

Or you could just come here to sunny Athens and I put you in touch with my doctor who has helped me so much and comparing to the prices I am seeing on here is a bargain 👍🏼

Always here for a chat if you want x

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Corchi

Hi Corchi , I’m ok today . Feel like I’ve more energy . I had planned to do a fresh but had to have a frozen cycle because I needed a polyp removed.

Then we only got one embryo to blastocyst . It was a top grade 🤷🏼‍♀️ and my lining was perfect too 🤷🏼‍♀️ just figure the embryo wasn’t a good one genetically . Don’t think my clinic have that testing hmmmmm

Corchi
Corchi in reply to RhinoCat

Pgs testing here costs 180 euros per embryo and 800 euros one off. If you need or want more info let me know xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Corchi

Ok , thanks 😘

JoP32
JoP32 in reply to RhinoCat

Wowsers! That is cheap! Our clinic charges a one off £2,500 then another £500 per embryo.

Tbh though RhinoCat, I doubt they’d recommend PGS after one failed round. It could be ‘just’ horrible stinking rotten luck.

Also, every round can very and you could end up with more blasts next time without even changing anything 🤷‍♀️ Although I know that’s probably not very helpful right now 🤦🏽‍♀️ and I’d still be asking what they’re going to do differently / exactly what their plan is (& what’s the evidence that backs up that decision) for next time (as you’re already planning on doing) xx

For what it’s worth, my chap’s also on an alcohol ban and I’m force feeding him vitamins and CoQ10 every day!

I hope you get some much needed answers today lovely. Xxx

JoP32
JoP32 in reply to JoP32

Oh, did you have embryo glue? I don’t know if I had it for my first two rounds but am going to be pushing for it this time. If you didn’t have it, it might be worth asking if you could have it next time? Xx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to JoP32

Yeah, my clinic think it’s not worth raving about but include it as standard

I'm sure you've got it super covered by now, but I just wanted to say my main questions would be what do they think the main issues were and what are they going to do different for next time - what additional tests are they going to be doing, what additional drugs etc..... same exact strategy again would not be okay for me. xxxx

Don't take "luck" and "chances" for an answer like I did! They need to actually think about it and not fob you off. xxx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to ttcemmie

Defo not taking the bad luck thing again ! That’s what they said about my polyp . I however feel it’s to do with my body heading into menopause and they didn’t do a scan before they started stims ! Anyhow, what’s done is done. I guess today we will find out what our clinic is made of 😘

Hidden
Hidden in reply to ttcemmie

Well said Emmie! Also, can I suggest you actually suggest what to do next? I always do a bit of research and ask...what if we can do this? Will it help to do that? That’s how I got my hormones increased while stimming and that got me 1 follicle more! Xx

ttcemmie
ttcemmie in reply to Hidden

Good call on self research and making your own suggestions, although it's a shame we have to do this. x

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to ttcemmie

I’m gonna listen then whip out my phone with my questions if he doesn’t give me real stuff!!!! It’s too expensive to be passive even though passive would be soooooo much easier 😂

Hidden
Hidden in reply to ttcemmie

Yes it is a shame, especially with all the money we’re spending! But I know that if I don’t ask I’ll keep having the doubt so 😂😂😂😂

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Hidden

Defo asking about higher dose on stims

Good luck!!!

Hey RhinoCat, sorry Im a bit late to the party....not sure if you have been seen yet or not. My thoughts are what dose of stims were you on, can they increase it? Could they try short protocol instead? How did your embryos do at day 3 (what were the gradings)....if they stop developing or slow down after this its a sperm issue....before that its an egg issue. Im not sure how old you are so may be an egg issue or sperm issue, what are their thoughts?! Is it worth you trying DHEA for another cycle....its meant to help...again not sure how old you are and what your AMH is. Good luck.xx

RhinoCat
RhinoCat in reply to Cinderella5

Thanks cinders , I’m 38.

Got 5 eggs , all fertilised and made it to day 3, at day 5 only 3 left . One was top grade blasto and frozen . Other two left to day 6 but arrested. So , we know we have a perm problems but no sperm review on collection day .

I had two days of max dose menopur then half dose for 9 days. Slow response but 5 mature eggs at the end of it 🤷🏼‍♀️ my amh is 6.8. I think it’s lower now because that result was last February . What you mean trying dhea for another cycle? We paid privately in NI

Cinderella5
Cinderella5 in reply to RhinoCat

I was 38 when we started out, AMH of 7.19. We usually got around 7-9 eggs and fertilisation was always really good with ICSI (very even although we only ever got 1 or 2 day 5 blasts and not the best quality....best one was 2BB. We had male factor too however I was told it was likely an egg issue. I had done lots of research on DHEA, not that there is much out there but might be worth considering. Its supposed to help with egg quality, its a supplement....you could ask your clinic on their thoughts on it (you can buy it on the internet). I think it helped with mine even if I didnt have succes before moving to DE. xxx

Hi RhinoCat just wanted to wish you all the best for your review appointment today. I really hope you get some answers and a plan together for next time. It really helped me having my review as there's so much they can change, tweak or investigate and having a plan of action will help you move forwards 💪 😘☕️🍯 Xx

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