Clinic confusion

Too much advice can be a problem I know but I don't know where else to turn. So two different clinic appointments in two weeks and two different views surprise surprise. Now thinking do we go for 3rd clinic view or just make decision between the two visited?both recommemded endo scratch so at leaSt that's a given now. One recommemded ivf the other icsi...we have no issue with sperm and previous two attempts were icsi. I Googled (surprise) and seems no difference in success rates. Guess ivf is cheaper but nurse tonight said if egg numbers low then icsi means more likelihood of fertilisation. .really? Guess we liked idea of old school ivf and the strong swimmers naturally fertilising our eggs but now worry what if none fertilise naturally is it better icsi so fertilisation is forced if you will?then the difference between long and short protocol reared it's head. Two long protocol so far and clinic last week recommending long yet tonight she wondered about short..this is a nightmare😢I am so anxious, tired and emotional now and just wish someone else would make this decision for us. The thought of paying for such a huge decision is so stressful. Anyone got thoughts about ivf vs icsi and long vs short protocols??? Xxxxx

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  • Hey Vic77 it's mental torture isn't it! It's so awful that the advice is conflicting and confusing and everyone's out to make money from us.

    Interesting views on IVF vs ICSI, I've been told that if you are older with poorer egg quality that ICSI saves the energy in the sperm to use when it's inside the egg rather than burning energy getting into the egg. It can help conserve sperm energy which if you're older like me can be important.

    The other thing I've been told is if you're numbers of eggs are low they don't want to do ICSI as their is a risk they damage some and when you don't have many they don't want to risk it .

    I don't agree that if your egg numbers are low ICSI increases fertilisation, it depend on the sperm!

    If you have the egg numbers ICSI would be a good thing, I think.

    I've heard that short protocol is better for older ladies or those with low ovarian reserves. The long protocol shuts your ovaries right down and then has to wake them up with stimming. But short goes straight for the stimms.

    I'm sure there are many other reasons but these are the main ones I've been told in my previous cycles, however what I don't know is how true this is. Im trusting the advice of previous consultants.

    I hope this is of some help to you. Xx

  • Thanks so much for responding..it feels like politics. .I just don't know who to believe and am trusting them with so much and now my money too😢so from the advice you got were they recommending icsi over ivf?xxx

  • We've had IVF in all 5 attempts of IVF with our own eggs. Only the last one wanted to do ICSI due to the sperm energy thing but because we only got 1 Egg they wouldn't do ICSI in the end.

    For my DE IVF they do ICSI as standard but that's in Spain and with young plentiful eggs so don't know why they do that.

    You could call them both back up and grill them some more on their rationale for each option and the compare again. Or go for another opinion as you say.

    It's so frustrating that you're the one left making sense of it all, there doesn't seem to be one version of the truth

    Xx

  • My head aches..thanks so much for taking time to reply much appreciated xx

  • Sounds complicated. I think in the end I would go with whichever clinic has the best stats for women your age!!

  • Aw vic77 these were some of my questions yesterday! Apparently no difference in success rates between icsi and ivf, only that obviously icsi helps the sperm in doing half its job. I had read in normal ivf and pregnancy a chance of a disability is 5 in every 100, with icsi it's 10 in every hundred purely because human selection is used as opposed to natural selection and I suppose doesn't always mean we pick the exact best sperm out of all the millions for the job. Although I think eventually all clinics will use icsi as their main choice. Re the long/short protocol I always thought I was on the long one, so asked re the short to be told that's what I've always been on! Apparently if your amh is roughly 10 or below short protocol is used, as with the long one every hormone in the body is turned off, however with the short not all are as in ladies with lower amh's it can then take a while to restart all the hormones when needed. Long is only for if you have a good amh. I went with a huge list of questions yesterday!! Also asked for progesterone tests but was refused and was told over the years the advice changes re progesterone pessaries as if there is a pregnancy your body will naturally produce it and the pessaries are merely a support?? And sometimes aren't even provided. It's all so confusing isn't it! Xx

  • What a confusing time you are having, so stressful getting told different stories from different clinics. I was under the impression that short protocols were used in patients with PCOS or older women with low AMH, short protocol is more gentle with the eggs apparently but I could be wrong! Regarding ICSI and IVF, I thought the same as you that ICSI was for poor/little sperm. I read a post from Buffy21 the other day and she wrote "No issues with my OH swimmers but we were unexplained. Went for IVF ICSI split 50/50. All our IVF crashed and burned after day 3. All ICSI went to blastocyst stage. Froze two implanted two." and she is pregnant so that was interesting. My clinic are using ICSI but that's due to my hubby but my AMH is 7.19 and Im on long protocol.

    You are paying these clinics for these consultations, yes? If so can you drop them an email and ask them why they are recommending to do ICSI over IVF vice versa and same with the protocols? Try to get some reasoning as to why they have recommended each thing and your concerns. They should well expect these questions for the costs that you'll be paying. Good luckxx

  • And why you don´t try some clinic abroad? UK clinics are horrible. Check some clinic in Czech republic, I can recommend you Praga Medica :)

  • Oh gosh the frustration of it all! Drives me crackers!! I think if u wanted 3rd opinion see if u can have a Skype consult with a clinic abroad -I think a lot of the Spanish & green clinics do consult for free -make sure they have all your up to date info and see what they say-hopefully it won't be a 3rd different opinion, hopefully it'll match one of your clinics so u can comfortably decide which protocol u want to follow.

    Ps we had icsi but in Greece I think they do that automatically but also I had very few eggs x

  • first of all, you have to be comfy with clinic you want to opt for. then you should decide what is the best for you long or short protocols. Then look at the price (of course if it has a matter to you), location, success rate and feedbacks. make sure you are totally satisfied with their services. and one more, why don't want to look for a clinic abroad, as far as I heard they offer good conditions.

    Take care! Make a right decision!!! xxx

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