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[Poppymum]

Hi, I'm new to here. Just wanting to connect with other parents in the same position. My husband and I have a four and a half year old girl who wets herself daily. She has never been dry. She has been out of nappies in the day for almost two years now and we haven't got anywhere in terms of her knowing when she needs a wee and taking herself. If we take her to the toilet she wees fine, she has no problems having a wee on the toilet anytime that we take her but she never takes herself. Poppy wees fairly often. If we took her to the toilet once an hour we would probably just about stop most of the accidents but if it got a little over that time; say she was playing with a friend or we were busy and didn't take her then she will wet. She has never initiated going to the toilet (for a wee) herself and is completely reliant on us or preschool staff to take her regularly.

Poppy thankfully does take herself to the toilet for a poo. The only exception is if she has loose stools and doesn't get there in time but normally she takes herself for a poo, no problem.

We have seen a paediatrician who prescribed movicol but Poppy isn't constipated at all and isn't on movicol anymore. If she was constipated when she saw the paediatrician then that was unusual and it didn't cause the wetting because she isn't constipated now (several doctors have examined her tummy and agree) and the wetting is no better.

It isn't water infections as we've taken in more urine samples than I can count!

Poppy had a bladder scan which was normal.

Poppy isn't simply lazy. She doesn't like wetting herself now that she's four and a half. If she has a friend to play and wets herself then she tells us not to tell her friend that she is needing to be changed as she gets embarrassed because she's very aware that other four year olds don't wet.

Poppy drinks the right amount and only drinks water. If she drinks milk it seems to give her loose stools although having milk on her breakfast or in foods doesn't upset her at all. She used to have a drink of milk at preschool and then have loose stools when she got home, so we only let her drink water now.

Poppy will start school this coming September (she will be five in the autumn).

We are due to see the paediatrician again next month. Could anyone advise me on what else they would expect the paediatrician to do? Any other tests?

Also, does anyone have a school age child who wets daily or needs to be taken to the toilet once an hour! How do school deal with this?

We know that taking her to the toilet isn't teaching her to take herself, or recognise the 'feeling' of needing to go, but after two years of trying everything, we know she just doesn't know she needs to wee until the wee has started to come out. We have tried not taking her and leaving it to her and she has many accidents a day (too many to cope with) so taking her to the toilet regularly is the only manageable solution. Today she has had three wet accidents even with us taking her to the toilet. The last one this afternoon was an hour and a quarter after going to the toilet, which seems too long an interval for her.

Poppy's accidents are only a small amount of wee. We think that once the flow has started, she is aware and perhaps stops it. Her preschool teacher mentioned that one time she did say 'I need a wee' as the first bit was coming out (she doesn't usually say she needs a wee at all), but she doesn't seem to know until that point. The usual pattern with accidents is that she has a patch of wee on her trousers, we notice and then take her to 'do the rest of it' on the toilet.

I would love to hear from anyone in the same position. Especially those with children about to start school or already coping with wetting at school.

Until recently we hoped this was just a case of being very late to grasp potty training, but two years after being out of nappies and aged four and a half, with no progress, we know there must be more to it!

Thanks,

Poppy's Mum

[Wagamama]

Hello my love. Totally sympathise with you... Think everyone on here has the same sort of issues but all vary slightly... I've posted this on other threads recently on here so have a look through them but all I can suggest is that when my daughter constantly wet herself and dribbled constantly throughout the day it was definitely caused by a sensitivity to fabric softener! Of all things! the minute i stopped using it and only used fairy powder on all her clothes two days later the wetting completely stopped...

Not suggesting that this is 100% the cause with your daughter but I have read that allergies in children (and adults!) can cause bladder incontinence... That was definitely the answer for my daughter... Still got some other issues but that side is fixed...

So my suggestion, if you're right out of ideas I'd.... maybe look into her diet for things you think could trigger a sensitivity and maybe try washing clothes without fabric softener and ONLY fragrance free baby wipes and give that a go...

Really hope this helps...😘

[Piper2017 in reply to Wagamama]

Hi, I have a 5 year old that has the same problems as yours, she started school in September before she started school I met with her teacher and explained situation, so she arranged for special needs assistant to bring her to toilet once an hour and give her a clean pair of pants to put on, I put a sanitary towel in her pants when in school in minimise the embarrassment of other kids noticing. the teacher also said a kid the previous year had the same problem and wore pull ups for the whole year but my daughter isn't keen on pull ups in the day in case others would see them but pad is only small so that works for her. hope you get on ok,

I like others on here understand exactly how you feel it is a very stressful situation at times. hopefully in time we will all get there and have kids that only need one pair of pants a day instead of 10.....

[Mintymummy]

Snap my daughter is exactly the same as yours, it's as if I had written the post. My daughter started school this year, the teachers were fairly unsupportive st the start but after talking to them we decided that I could give them her vibrating watch to remind them to tell her to go to the toliet. We have seen a urologists who carried out tests, all came back clear. His advice to us was to take her to the toilet every 90 mins and encourage her to drink approx 1 litre of liquid a day. He explained that she is so used to chronically holding on to not going to the toilet that we need to try to re train her brain by taking her regularly. He explained this may take 6-12 months

[KCM23]

My daughter is exactly the same. She has no idea when a wee is coming until it has started coming out a bit. We are now in a bladder retraining program on the advice of her urologist, meaning we send her to the toilet every hour and then again 10 mins later. She has a wobl watch that her teacher now wears to remind her to go.

An ultrasound showed she only empties about half her bladder at the first sitting, which explained why she would go to the toilet and then be wet shortly afterwards. We have also seen both a Physiotherapist and an Occupational therapist to help with her fine and gross motor skills as she has difficulties with this too. Since doing the exercises they suggested, we have seen a big improvement in the number of accidents through the day, but again if we leave her to her own devices she wets regularly. Whilst we are pleased that there has been an improvement, we are only managing the problem, not helping her to solve it and become an independent toilet user. I'm hoping that this is a slow process but one that will result in her being independent.

[Poppymum in reply to KCM23]

I know what you mean about managing it but not solving the problem. We take our daughter regularly but if we dont then she never initiates going to toilet herself ( for a wee). I want to understand why she doesnt feel that she needs to go. Seeing paedeatrician again next month. Going to buy a wobl watch too.

[ers79]

HI

My $yo is exactly the same. She is a july baby so is in reception now. the school have been amazing and SO supportive (mosty of me!). her Nursery were awful and made me take her to a psycotherapist!!

I have seen the GP several times and doen urine samples - nothing. I have also spoken with a lovely psychologist who said that until they are 5 it really isn't a problem and some kids are just slower to get the sensation.

My daughter is pretty small for her age and has a cows milk protein allergy so when she was a baby i never did any tummy time (terrible reflux). this has resulted in her having weak hip flexors apparently so i think her abdomen and all the muscles around there are a bit weak. She does gym and ballet and swimming to help.

We have been using a wobl watch since Feb and it is really good. it takes the pressure off me nagging her.She sounds VERY much like your daughter in that she absolutely won't ask to go to the loo and she has never said the words ' i need a wee' also so won't take herself off without 'permission'. Very odd.

The watch seems to give her that permission and also she can say to me or her teacher or her friend 'my watch has buzzed' and that is like her code for 'i need a wee'.

Unfortunately we have the same issues for poo and wee so she does have poo accidents at school too which i get more anxious about.

She is getting better at taking herself off and sorting herself out though.

it is so upsetting and worrying, i have been so stressed about this for teh last 2 years.

The psychologists main advice was really not to make a big deal out of it. i had been getting very wound up and been shouting and telling her off so i have had to completely calm down about it.

I do think it will get better and i do think she will learn to sort herself out and get herself into a routine but in my low moments i see her 10years in the future as the girl who poos herself in school and it makes me so sad!

It is so good to hear that i am not alone!

[Poppymum in reply to ers79]

Good to hear you were told some children are just slower to get the sensation. I hope that's the case with my daughter. Saw a pediatrician again yesterday. She said that it can't be that she doesn't get the sensation, she's just ignoring it. That can't be the case because the day before a preschool member of staff was changing her and a little leak of urine happened whilst she was being changed and the lady changing her said that my daughter was surprised when it came out. I am sure that she only knows after it has come out. she has got to the stage of not wanting friends to know she's wet too, so why would she ignore it and risk them seeing.

I'm sure we will get there!

[Poppymum]

oh and, my daughter's preschool are amazing. It is me that needs the support! I have found the preschool staff to be more supportive than the health professionals so far!