Lithium orotate versus lithium aspartate

[MarionP]

What's the difference, and which should one pick?

[park_bear]

As I understand it, the purpose of these compounds is to get the lithium ion into the bloodstream, and which anion is used for the purpose is incidental. For that reason I went with lab grade lithium chloride. Lithium chloride got a bad reputation long ago when people tried using it as a replacement for table salt and overdosed. I measured out my doses very carefully using a milligram scale. I did not suffer any ill effects but as far as I could tell it did not do anything for me either.

[MarionP in reply to park_bear]

Very interesting. What was your source of supply if you remember?

[park_bear in reply to MarionP]

amazon.com/gp/product/B0831...

I see that I commented previously on this matter:

We have potential toxicities with both orotate and aspartate salts of lithium. In his book Dr. Guttuso compares margin of safety of aspartate excitotoxicity vs. orotate carcinogenicity . Based on this study he concludes there is too little margin of safety re carcinogenicity of orotate: academic.oup.com/carcin/art... This study used livers already primed to get cancer so applicability to healthy tissue unknown.

Note once these compounds get into the bloodstream, lithium dissociates into the ionic form. Why bother with either of these when we can simply use lithium chloride which dissociates into lithium and chloride ions? It is readily available online per the above link.

Lithium chloride got a bad rap in the middle of the last century when it was tried as a replacement for table salt and some people got poisoned by taking too much. To use it safely, a person would need to use a milligram scale and carefully measure out the appropriate amount. The molecular weight of lithium chloride is 42 versus a molecular weight of 7 for lithium. In other words, lithium chloride is 1/6th lithium by weight. So a person would multiply the lithium dosage by 6 to obtain the correct weight of lithium chloride to take. For 5 mg of lithium this would amount of 30 mg of lithium chloride. This is a tiny pinch of substance - It requires a sensitive scale to measure properly. 100 grams of lithium chloride is 8 years' supply at this rate.

Lithium chloride found online is .1% impure. What are the contaminants in lithium chloride? We have a study which sets this forth here: osti.gov/pages/servlets/pur... The contaminants consist of trace amounts of a half dozen useful substances: calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, copper, and iron, plus 100 ppm of nickel. If we ingest enough of this lithium chloride to obtain 30 mg of lithium, which is the recommended dosage in the book, we could end up ingesting nickel as follows: 30 mg lithium =>180 mg LiCl => 18 μg Ni. From this reference: sciencedirect.com/science/a... “typical daily dietary intakes for nickel are 70–400 μg/d” So the amount of nickel we would ingest is a fraction of what is already present in the diet.

This analysis depends upon impurities being as stated in the referenced study. There's no guarantee that this will be the case. Proceed at your own risk. On the other hand neither the orotate nor aspartate versions are risk free either.

[MarionP in reply to park_bear]

Very good information, all should absorb it (sorry about that).

[Likii in reply to park_bear]

Caution. Different salts, different effects?

youtu.be/f8-kq5XYR5E?si=8uH...(Not working as expected?)

[MarionP in reply to Likii]

Very good thank you!

[lbrussell]

Dr. Guttuso's recent book titled. The Promise of Lithium, dives into this question on page 115. He covers the bioavailability, safety and BBB crossing of both forms of lithium, as well as lithium carbonate, the prescription form. He decided the aspartate form had a slight advantage on the safety studies. He also covers what dose to take as well.

[Likii in reply to lbrussell]

Dr Guttuso is also the founder of a company that markets lithium aspartate:

youtu.be/7QANgi46fqA?si=Qhw...(Not working as expected?)

[MarionP in reply to Likii]

Excellent thank you very much.

[lbrussell]

Also, has anyone heard Dr Mischley comment on lithium since Dr Guttuso's book was released? I'm wondering if she has stayed with the orotate form? Has she changed her dosage recommendations?

[Jmellano in reply to lbrussell]

Within the past 6 months, dr. Mischley told me to take 5 mg orotate and she had mentioned that book to me

[MarionP in reply to Jmellano]

Ok, will take a good look at the book.

[scotta]

Aspartate comes from aspartic acid, similar to what is in aspartame sweetener. Many people have had bad experiences with aspartame (you can Google that).

In my case, I have tinnitus and aspartame/aspartate will worsen any existing tinnitus so after trying lithium aspartate and having a problem with my tinnitus getting much louder, I switched to lithium orotate and my tinnitus returned to its normal quiet level.

There are also reports of aspartame causing new cases of tinnitus where it was not present before. For one person's view on the aspartame issue, see:

tinnitusformula.com/library...

[MarionP in reply to scotta]

Really! Well I do have tinnitus and certainly would prefer to avoid exacerbating. Tinnitus is common enough among others too in general. And even though aspartic acid is part of the NMDA activating system, (a receptor whose name is "N-Methyl-D-aspartic acid") which is involved in memory formation, dietary aspartame can really send your skin urticaria and dermatitis over the moon if you have any skin allergies, much like sugar. But a lifetime of antihistamines for that skin disorder, and antidepressants that do have a stimulant action in some cases, may have had a lot to do with tinnitus in the long term in my case. Appreciate the response very much.

[bassofspades]

from Nutritional Lithium: A Cinderella Story: The Untold Tale of a Mineral That Transforms Lives and Heals the Brain a.co/d/f3Z0dtc

“Lithium aspartate and lithium orotate are available as capsules, and lithium citrate and lithium chloride are available as liquid solutions for purchase without a doctor’s prescription. I recommend lithium orotate or lithium citrate for nutritional supplementation. Aspartate belongs in a class of chemicals known as excitotoxins, which causes neurons to transmit impulses at such a rapid rate that the receptors quickly become exhausted. The overstimulation can cause unwanted problems such as headaches and possible inflammation in sensitive individuals. Lithium orotate contains a salt derived from orotic acid that is frequently used as a binder for many mineral supplements. The orotate ion allows lithium to pass through the stomach while remaining bound to the orotate carrier. Blood levels peak between a half hour and two hours after ingestion. Once in the bloodstream, lithium travels to the brain. Based on research on the absorption of calcium and magnesium orotate, lithium orotate is thought to use passive transport to cross the blood-brain barrier. Because the lithium remains attached to the orotate carrier, it directly enters neural cells before being released, leaving little left in the bloodstream to cause unwanted side effects.”

I personally have been using lithium orotate for several years and it works great for me.

[gomelgo in reply to bassofspades]

What dsymptom relief have you seen with it?

[bassofspades in reply to gomelgo]

A profound reduction in brain fog and improvement in memory

[gomelgo in reply to bassofspades]

Excellent. Anything on the anxiety and tremor front?

[bassofspades in reply to gomelgo]

Unfortunately not for me. Leaving my job and getting on social security disability got rid of my anxiety. Tremors come and go for me

[gomelgo in reply to bassofspades]

I have 3 more years before I can get social security sadly, and I can no longer work. Nice to know some folks can have intermittent tremor.

[bassofspades in reply to gomelgo]

Im 55. My doctor helped me get SSD disability

[gomelgo in reply to bassofspades]

I have ttried, but was not working enough before all this happened, and had just sold my house so too much in the bank for SSI. Alas, I fell through the crack.

[bassofspades in reply to gomelgo]

I knew I was going to need disability so I maxed it out through my job benefits while I was able to work and that helped me out while I was going through the process getting on SSD. Good luck my friend!

[gomelgo in reply to bassofspades]

Very glad for you. My 3 years will go by quickly , I'm sure

[Kat343]

I super appreciate all the comments on the type of lithium, thank you! I started lithium orotate approx 5 weeks ago and am starting to remember my dreams which I rarely do. I was going to change to aspartate, but will not at this time. Thanks for the help!

[MarionP in reply to Kat343]

That's very interesting about the dreams. Are you on the 5 mg then?

[Kat343]

Yes, and my sleep has been much deeper. I will be curious if I see any mental improvement. As a recent caregiver for my HwP, I'm recognizing I'm changing and have noticed my memory has declined in the past year. I've never been anxious or depressed, but have been obviously concerned and know that my brain is not as speedy as it once was. So am hoping to see if lithium can help. Husband just started 5 mg about 7 plus days ago because our chelation doc Ok'd it (I wanted his opinion about taking with the C/L). It would be rare if he notices anything as he's never been one to describe his health issues very well, but I"m hoping I do!

[chartist in reply to Kat343]

Kat343,

This may be of interest to you :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Art

[Kat343 in reply to chartist]

I love this forum so much because of the people in it! I've learned so much. I'm excited to research more on what your article recommends, We already do high dose D3 (w/K2) at 10-15,000 per day cause our levels are not where we want them (over 60 to 70). HwP does 10 mg melatonin and I do 1 mg (I don't really like the way I feel at even 3 mg, but may have to try it again) and will now look into those other recommendations. I'm 63, in great health and research every day on PD. We are doing IV chelation, MaH, hi dose glutathione and NAD therapy. We found a very special chiropractor who specializes in adjusting the C1, and are doing voice and some cognitive therapy. He has declined a lot since being diagnosed 5/22 and does not have tremors. I am wanting to purchase a medical ozone machine to do insufflations at home. And I pray every day and trust that we are where exactly where we are supposed to be..... but I will not ever give up. I thank ou so very much for caring enough to reach out - all good blessings to you Art!

[chartist in reply to Kat343]

This may interest you regarding chelation and protection and melatonin

mdpi.com/2227-9059/11/1/5/pdf

Art