Keto, Eggs and PD Meds: So I decided that... - Cure Parkinson's

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Keto, Eggs and PD Meds

jeeves19 profile image
52 Replies

So I decided that Keto was the way forward. Tried it when I was first DXed for

4 weeks but didn’t help. I probably expected too much in too little time. Anyway, 7 years later and I’m ready for the ‘big push’. Got my larder full of erithytol, almond flour, Keto snacks, MCT oil. Yesterday I had a breakfast that was a sort of frittata. No problem. I came home at 5 and thought I’d prepare some food for myself as my wife was having a heavy carb meal later on. Pretty unimaginative on my part but I cooked some Keto friendly sausages and two fried eggs. Yummy 😋. I waited a couple of hours before having a Madopar which had no effect whatsoever and then after 4 hours tried a rescue remedy of soluble Madopar. Disappointingly, this similarly had no effect on my PD symptoms. So it looks as if the ‘big push’ towards Ketosis won’t be happening. I can’t afford to be on a protocol that blocks my medication so badly. Just wondering if any of the community found a similar effect from eggs which is something of a mainstay in the Ketogenic diet?

52 Replies
pvw2 profile image
pvw2

While I'm not following a vegetarian diet (virtually the opposite of a keto diet), that is the only diet my neurologist says has improved PD symptoms for some patients. That is probably due to better absorption of Levodopa because of food passing more quickly through the stomach.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to pvw2

Thanks 👍

Thal profile image
Thal

Likewise meds don't work and the constipation was the worst!

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to Thal

Frustratingly the Keto diet is suggesting that benefits can be experienced after a couple of months. I wonder how successful adherents cope with our experience?

Thal profile image
Thal in reply to jeeves19

I suspect it s the fasting that helps not the keto.

pvw2 profile image
pvw2 in reply to Thal

True, for Levodopa to make it to the blood stream, it needs to pass through the stomach without being digested. That means not being mixed with proteins that digest in the stomach.

kevowpd profile image
kevowpd

Can i be reminded of the supposed benefits of the keto diet and the conceptual framework on which they are based?

Thal profile image
Thal in reply to kevowpd

Dr Mathew Phillips New Zealand

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades in reply to kevowpd

Autophagy Mastery: Follow the Autophagy Diet Healing Secrets That Many Men and Women Have Followed to Enhance Anti-Aging & Weight Loss for a Healthier Body, With Water Fasting & Intermittent Fasting! amazon.com/dp/B083M88M3D?re...

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19

Hi Kevowpd. I think it’s that PWP are more resistant to processing glucose adequately and that the switch to ketones allegedly is a more ‘useable’ form of energy than the normal glucose ingestion. But after yesterday I think it’s all over for me. I suspect that we get even more sensitive to protein the longer we have the disease. I don’t remember such calamitous interaction when I had my 4 week stint many years ago.

bradykin profile image
bradykin

I would bet that your problem is protein and not ketosis and not fasting.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to bradykin

indeed but eggs are a staple of the Keto and must be loaded with protein.

bradykin profile image
bradykin in reply to jeeves19

Not that I recommend it, but I guess you can go into ketosis by only eating a limited amount of fat.

I think the best thing is to avoid protein until after the last dose of the day.

park_bear profile image
park_bear

Personally ketosis does not work for me – I experience exhaustion. Regarding eggs, a single egg does not seem to interfere with my levodopa medication.

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades

Its not just the keto diet, but the fasting that helps autophagy. Remember, autophagy is the process by which your body eliminates the "junk", including a-synuclean clumps which are strangling and suffocating your neurons. Keto just accelerates it. Remember to get good sleep too, as best as you can. Most of this process occurs during sleep.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to bassofspades

so how did/do you find protein yourself Bass? I know that you put quite a bit of store in the Keto Diet from what we’ve discussed in the past.

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades in reply to jeeves19

Years ago when I first went on Sinemet (carbidopa levadopa), I asked my doctor if I should avoid protein when taking it. He said it made no difference. I eat lots of protein and never regard timing my meds around food and I find makes no difference, indeed. I hope you have as good of a result as I have had. If not, I guess you can chalk it up to different things work differently for different people. In that case, I hope you find what works for you.

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades in reply to bassofspades

And I eat lots of eggs!

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades in reply to jeeves19

If you can't do keto, at least do intermittent fasting. Eat your food for the day within a 4 to 6 hour window. This leaves 18 to 20 hrs for fasting, which is adequate for autophagy to occur.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to bassofspades

will do mate 👍

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

Or eat like all the other members of the human race in your house.

Farrpottery profile image
Farrpottery

There are many, many low carb green veggies available to eat on Keto along with eggs and meat. Cucumber kale celery zucchini, green beans, Brussels sprouts, spinach, arugula lettuce, collard greens, turnip greens, broccoli, cauliflower plus many other types of lettuce.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19

and who could resist such an enticing smorgasbord? 🤔😂

Buckholt profile image
Buckholt

Was keto for a while and now basically low carb. I think the important bits are removing refined sugar from the diet and not too many processed items. Like others have said, a degree of fasting is probably good but all these things are difficult to measure. Like you, I cannot tolerate protein around meds and try and keep these to the evening.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to Buckholt

Thanks for contributing 😊

AaronS profile image
AaronS

Hey mate, eggs are the most bio-available of any protein. Regularly I have 6 hard boiled for breakfast, wait an hour and then madopar if needed, and roughly 45 minutes to an hour later meds kicked In. Eggs are good are you sure they are the causation of delay for your meds to kick in?

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to AaronS

An interesting thought Aaron. It could have been the sausages of course. I’m keep an open mind and maybe do some experiments. Cheers 😊

LAJ12345 profile image
LAJ12345 in reply to jeeves19

what are the ingredients of the sausage? I would be avoiding anything that isn’t 100% real food.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to LAJ12345

Good point. 🤔

Kia17 profile image
Kia17 in reply to jeeves19

It should be from the sausages. Susages have loads of MSG and natural flavouring( TOXINS) that all not only are excitotoxin but also lowering Sinemet absorbtion.

Better to consume boiled eggs than fried eggs.

Avoid anything contain natural flavouring, MSG, hydrolized vegetable protein, Aspartame. Food manufacturers disguise MSG under different names like:

🍚Hidden Names For MSG And Free Glutamic Acid:

Names of ingredients that always contain processed free glutamic acid. See attached screenshot.

MSG
jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to Kia17

I’ll experiment Kia. Thanks for writing!

17Hillview profile image
17Hillview

Just to add my experiences, eggs have a similar effect on me. It completely negates my following dose when taken up to as much as 4 hours after. I was amazed at how thoroughly it blocked any absorption of meds. I figured that it's the high protein content of eggs and now just avoid them. Sorry that I don't have any solutions to offer.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to 17Hillview

Good to know that it’s not it just me then 😊

17Hillview profile image
17Hillview in reply to jeeves19

I know that you suffer from med absorption issues. I came across this website that seems hokey, but interesting: wellandgood.com/how-to-take...

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to 17Hillview

many thanks 🙏

BootsOn profile image
BootsOn

ketogenic.com/a-guide-to-ke...

dietdoctor.com/low-carb/rec...

I'm low carb rather than keto, but I take my last Sinemet of the day at 6pm then have dinner at 7-7.30 pm. Could you try that way round with your Madopar? I don't eat eggs for my evening meal though.

Or try eggs again another day? Or at a different time of day?

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to BootsOn

All things are feasible with a bit of planning. I think that I need to be far more regimented and aware of medication timings from now on, rather than just taking them on a ‘need to’ basis.

gginto profile image
gginto

Hey Jeeves! Hope u are doing,,well, not too bad,,, you would need to do Keto for at least a month to feel any lasting results.. I'm on the wonderful C/L so would probably be easier than ur drugs to embark on the Keto diet.. but could u do a Keto "lite" diet. ? Like cut out half your carbs,, and most sugar ? Are u still doing regular daily exercises? Seems to sustain me. But I was thinking also to take the plunge into KETO... will email u soon, cheers

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to gginto

it’d be really good to hear from you Greg. 😊

rebtar profile image
rebtar

I’m 7years since diagnosis, and also tried keto early on. No way could I do it now. Any significant amount of protein and meds don’t work after.

I haven’t figured out how to get enough protein if I leave it all for the evening. I’m usually pretty tired, and just can’t consume the 60 gms I was recommended. In fact, by evening I don’t feel like eating protein at all!

I’m going to try a pea plus rice protein powder again one hour after meds during the day, perhaps I can slip in the extra protein that way…

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to rebtar

Good luck as we both face our 8th year 😕

grower profile image
grower

I was interested to try keto after hearing more about a recent trial but I'm pretty skinny as it is and it seems inevitable you'd lose weight that I can't afford

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to grower

True.

Todd-pw profile image
Todd-pw

hi again

i myself tried lots of different diets/eating regimes and found countless different things impacted my medication in countless ways, so i ended up seeing a functional medicine practitioner had some in depth bloods done on food allergens turns out i was having reactions to a lot more foods than i had realised like 80% of my daily diet. things have improved significantly since i have become a lot stricter with my diet. also started seriously following a thiamine/PEA complex protocol. i must say my daily diet is rather bland but other non PD symptoms have improved also eg psoriasis disappearing, anxiety when off gone away which in turn reduces the symptoms when in a off state. i can have a treat at weekends now things have improved but have to be cautious not to over do it. i never have a meal without taking digestive enzymes more than 1 if meal has protein in it. magnesuim tablets at night help with sleep and stop any constipation for me anyway.

hope this helps

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to Todd-pw

Thanks Todd. Sorry that its taken so long to reply to your very worthwhile observations. They were really appreciated.

amykp profile image
amykp

Keto is NOT a high protein diet--it is high fat! You should not be eating any more protein than you did before and maybe less.

Eggs are not particularly a mainstay, though they could be. Good quality sausages/high fat cheese/butter/full cream/fatty bacon/olive oil/avocados/coconut/nuts like pecans, walnuts, macadamias, pine nuts...then all the green veggies Farrpottery mentioned...but roasted in olive oil or sauteed in lots of butter they are pretty tasty.

Since you do want autophagy, the best thing imo is fasting PLUS keto. And you won't feel great when you start--most people feel crummy for a few weeks as their brains adjust. It's called "keto flu".

And, I believe ketosis is mostly about neuroprotection. I'm not sure you will necessarily feel your symptoms improve very much, certainly not in the short term--I think the point is (theoretically) your disease will progress more slowly.

aginganddisease.org/EN/10.1...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Of course, none of this is proven. But I started a keto diet pretty much the minute I was diagnosed (2016) andI've progressed pretty slowly. Still one-sided. Don't need dopamine replacement yet. That's not to say it isn't just luck...but I'm not about to stop the diet.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to amykp

Amy. Thanks for that and sorry Ive been late in thanking you for the several responses you've made to recent posts of mine. They've been well recieved. You must be so proud that your self discipline and research has enabled you to come this far without dopamine replacement. Congratulations and I hope that this continues for you. Best.

amykp profile image
amykp in reply to jeeves19

Ha--I wish I KNEW it was my self-discipline responsible! That's the problem with one person doing something...how do you know it's not genetics, or some weird supplement, or the stars? It would be really frustrating to find out I skipped all that pasta for nothing!

But I AM pretty convinced sugar is toxic. And for some reason, I think PWP's really crave it.

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to amykp

I’m certainly a massive sugar addict

amykp profile image
amykp in reply to jeeves19

Well, I certainly like sweet. One of the things I allow myself is fake sugar: splenda, monkfruit, allulose, erythritol...you name it. I often mix them together which I find tastes the best. The negatives of each balance out.

My point is, it's restrictive enough eating keto--I'm not about to go without dessert for the rest of my life :o)

alaynedellow profile image
alaynedellow

my thoughts on diet. Not scientifically proved but i believe in cutting processed food.

I dont eat meat or any processesstuff even make my own jams. I take CR madopar and it is not effected by food. My shoping trolley is veg,fruit, rice, pasta all basic ingredients. I make own sauces etc and i am not a gd cook. I can feel bloated on breads and processed stuff

Just my thouggts Jeeves. You are what you eat. Gd luck

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to alaynedellow

a very sensible approach. Thanks for your contribution. I’ll throw the philosophy into the mix!

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