CoQ10 / Ubiquinol : In this post I will be compiling information about CoQ10 & Ubiquinol

Added 9/4/2021

In rats study conducted in Sweden , Aug 6, 2021

"Neuroprotective effects of Coenzyme Q10 in Parkinson's model via a novel Q10/miR - 149-5p/MMPs pathway

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/343...

Summary & Opinion: Rat model that I believe was injected. miR-149-5p was used in the study. "Taking together miR-149 and CoQ10 has shown to have an impressive potential to prevent damage to dopaminergic neurons caused by 6-OHDA injection through reducing MMP-2,9, increased TH expression, and improved motor function." I do not understand it and therefore can not give an opinion.

Added 9/4/2021

amjmed.com/article/S0002-93...

In human study with 7 participants. (Thank you Park Bear for sharing this.)

My conclusion of this report: CoQ10 can help with Orthostatic Hypotention

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

Phase 2 Study was in 80 PWP with a placebo control group and lasted for I believe 8 months.

Phase 2 had a positive outcome but Phase 3 in 600 people did not. But the Phase 3 study did state, "One problem may be optimizing administration, and how to achieve this remains to be understood. For example, Ubiquinol, the reduced form of CoQ10 ....."

Preclinical looked consistently promising. Phase 2 did as well. Phase 3 although unsuccessful left some questions.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

Quote from study:

"Significant methodological issues affect the interpretation of studies evaluating putative neuroprotective agents in early PD. The dopaminergic deficit is typically far advanced at the time of diagnosis, with upwards of 50% of the dopaminergic neurons lost and the fate of those remaining possibly already determined.26 The optimal time to initiate a disease-modifying therapy may be before the onset of motor symptoms. The window from diagnosis to need for symptomatic therapy is short, and a growing tendency to treat earlier could affect the ability to determine a positive benefit.27 In the CARE-HD (Coenzyme Q10 and Remacemide Evaluation in Huntington's Disease) study,28 for example, a possible benefit did not become apparent until after 2 years of treatment."

I'm not sure what to make of the above quote part of which is "The optimum time to initiate a disease-modifying therapy may be before the onset of motor symptoms." To me this implies that the research hypothesize that pre-parkinson's or prodromal PD may benefit from CoQ10. Interesting to note that in Huntington's Disease, a positive benefit was not apparent until after 2 years of treatment.

A small study in Japan in 2016 using Ubiquinol (Not CoQ10 like the phase 2 & 3 large studies above) I will summarize this study with, it does not slow disease progression but may ease off periods.

naturalmedicinejournal.com/...

It is my present conclusion that Ubiquinol is a potent anti-oxidant that can have general health benefits and is generally safe but appears to do little if anything for PWP but how it interacts with other interventions and if it can be beneficial when used in conjunction with other supplements is unknown but I believe quite possible. It is safe, a potent antioxidant, and it can help with Orthostatic Hypotension (dizziness, low blood pressure.)

Who is taking CoQ10 or the more bioavailable Ubiquinol?

I have been taking 600 mg.

[Millbrook]

Hi CC. My husband is taking ubiquinol. He takes 400 mg 2x a day together with fish oil. According to Dr Shallenburger 2000 mg of COQ 10 stops PD progression. Ubiquinol being more bioavailable, 400 mg=800 mg of COQ 10. Silvestrov mentioned the dose 1200 mg as being his effective dose. He also mentioned that it has to be taken together with fish oil/fat to be effective

[kevowpd]

The 2014 phase 3 clinical trial (600 participants) showed such poor efficacy (I.e none) that they ended it early, and the treatment groups did worse than the placebo group. Not encouraging.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

[laglag]

Hi cc. This is just from memory from probably 12 yrs ago, for Q10 to be of benefit to PwP's, it takes 1200 mg s.

[Hidden in reply to laglag]

Hi Laglag, I researched more and edited and added to my post. And you are spot on with the dosage used, 1,200 mgs. Good memory!

[JayPwP]

There is a meta analysis that chartist mentioned to you yesterday about no difference between supplement and placebo

[Hidden in reply to JayPwP]

In that rat study CoQ10 was combined with MiR-149. I don’t understand the study as I can not figure out what that is.

[JayPwP]

Also Ubiquinol and Ubiquinone are similarly bioavailable

[JayPwP]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?te...

[JBOVERT]

I Had been taking 1200mg of ubiquinol b 600 mg twice daily only because i take a statin for a heart condition.. it is great for that and now im am taking it only once per day and am just taking 500mg to see if there is still a benefit now that i have cut my statin usage by 50%.Bloodwork is the only way to know what is going on and i wont be doing any of that for another month.

[park_bear]

Small study finds CoQ10 beneficial in orthostatic hypertension.

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[Hidden in reply to park_bear]

Park Bear, I have edited my post to include this report. Thank you for it.

[Hidden]

Edited post to add a 2021 study done in rats in Sweden. Can someone please explain it to me? What is miR-149?

[WinnieThePoo in reply to Hidden]

What is miR-149?

It's a bit complicated. It's a part of a gene which isn't protein encoding. It doesn't make proteins. In each gene is DNA which is too big and clunky to act as a messenger, so it breaks down into RNA. Different RNA makes different proteins - like alpha synuclein or GDNF (or millions of others). But a lot of the RNA doesnt obviously make protein. Recently it has been discovered that a lot of these molecules are micro-RNA (they're very small) - abbreviated to miR. Some of these have identifiable functions. miR7 binds to a-syn RNA and blocks its production. miR149 is thought to be anti-carcinogenic in some situations.

What conclusion you can draw from that I can't imagine, but in terms of "filtering" - it was rats. So draw no conclusions!

[Hidden in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Thank you for explaining that to me!

[Kia17]

One of the biggest mistake people make is that they take different supplements that all affect on mitochondria and think if they take altogether they have better outcome. That’s wrong. Donot mess with your mitochondria. If you take B1 then B1 should do the job . Don’t add other substances that have similar effects.

[Hidden in reply to Kia17]

I would like to read more about that. Do you have sources from which you are making that assertion? Do you have knowledge of the affect that B1 has on mitochondria, the means by which it works?

I’m researching and trying to learn this,

Perhaps the opposite is true and a multifaceted approach is what is needed.

Are we hypothesizing here or stating what there is evidence to substantiate?

[Kia17]

B1 and mitochondria hypothesised in many studies.

Not taking all the supplements with similar effects altogether is just common sense and personal experience.

[Hidden in reply to Kia17]

“Don’t add other substances that have similar effects.” Okay

Which ones? Sincerely, which substances have similar effects?

Or am I suppose to just “use my common sense?”

My common sense is telling me that the brain is extremely complex and common sense is good for hypotheses and not conclusions.

Which is why I’m asking for specifics.

I’m looking for genuine answers.

[Kia17 in reply to Hidden]

alpha-lipoic acid - electron donors and acceptors, such as CoQ10 - L creatine - NADH, B3- B1 , riboflavin (B2) , membrane phospholipids, those facilitie mitochondrial ATP production. just to name few.

[Hidden in reply to Kia17]

And what evidence do you have that that is a problem? Pharmaceuticals have dangerous interactions.

But B is a vitamin. Vitamins don’t have dangerous interactions with other vitamins. I have not read anywhere that there are dangerous interactions of B1.

Just bc those you mentioned all facilitate mitochondrial reactions, why do you assert that they are not compatible? Based on what?

This is a serious subject that we are making major life decisions on and that requires facts.

If all those facilitate mitochondrial ATP, why is that a problem as you claim?

[Kia17 in reply to Hidden]

The billion dollar questions. Like I said totally personal experience and common sense.

[Hidden in reply to Kia17]

You know a lot more than I do and I’m trying to learn. “Common sense” does not apply without a foundation of knowledge upon which to base it. So are you saying that CoQ10 , L-creatine, NADH and the others listed should not be combined Bc the intent of all is to facilitate mitochondrial ATP production? I’m genuinely trying to learn and understand.

[Kia17 in reply to Hidden]

Quite honestly, the only thing I know clearly is that I am ignorant and I celebrate my ignorance.

To get an answer for your question, put the scientific facts aside and ask yourself, is it a wise way to mix different chemicals to play with a very fragile organs of your body , in this case the mitochondria? I think it’s not. Everyone has different opinion. Mitochondria is the cell powerhouse ( a battery).

If we try to manipulate the battery with too many external substances the battery gets damaged. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Hidden in reply to Kia17]

My opinion is irrelevant and a waste of time.I’m just looking for info based on research, trials and actual results.

[Kia17 in reply to Hidden]

All the best

[Hidden]

“That’s wrong. Don’t mess with your mitochondria”. Etc etc You did not say “personal experience” until now. You stated it flatly as if you knew something I did not and never shared your personal experience anyways. So really I have been chasing this around for nothing bc you were stating your opinion based on who knows what.

Silly me looking for facts.

Moving on.

[Kia17]

Please go back and read my replies to see when I said my personal experience. Scroll up and you will see that. There is no single study about taking all supplements that help mitochondria at the same time and you are expecting me to prove something that has no relevant study.

[Hidden]

Yes, you did say “common sense and personal experience” after I questioned your assertion that started with “One of the biggest mistakes people make …..etc” Followed by, “That’s wrong. Don’t mess with your mitochondria.”

It was silly of me to think you had some facts and knowledge I do not otherwise you would have prefaced with, “it is my opinion.” But alas, no facts to share.

It is such a waste of everyone’s time and very frustrating when opinions are stated flatly as if facts leading to confusion and misinformation.

Thank you for running in circles with me.

I need to move on from this now.

[Kia17 in reply to Hidden]

Please let me know when you have found any ‘facts’ proving taking supplements with the same effects on mitochondria at the same time is beneficial. Hope you find your answer. Thank you

[Millbrook]

Hi CC.

This is an interesting article by Dr Frank Shallenberger on ubiquinol. My husband also takes ubiquinol for his heart as he is on statins.

secondopinionnewsletter.com...

I believe that Kaypeeoh also posted this a few months back.

[rescuema]

No nutrient works on its own. Cofactors are needed to churn the gears on a clock or you'll over-grease a wheel and choke the system. Finding a proper balance or the missing link is not so easy so some choose to take one step at a time while supplementing blind, but this isn't always ideal nor optimal and may exacerbate existing cofactor deficiencies.

There has been plenty of evidence for cofactors enhancing mitochondrial ATP production since the below study.

"there is a significant increase in ATP synthetic capacity in lymphocytes from patients undergoing cofactor treatment."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/150...

More on B vitamins-

"This review describes the closely inter-related functions of the eight B-vitamins and marshals evidence suggesting that adequate levels of all members of this group of micronutrients are essential for optimal physiological and neurological functioning. Furthermore, evidence from human research clearly shows both that a significant proportion of the populations of developed countries suffer from deficiencies or insufficiencies in one or more of this group of vitamins, and that, in the absence of an optimal diet, administration of the entire B-vitamin group, rather than a small sub-set, at doses greatly in excess of the current governmental recommendations, would be a rational approach for preserving brain health."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"In addition, vitamins and minerals, especially the B vitamins, vitamin C, iron and magnesium addressed in this review, are mandatory to extract this energy from food and present it in a physiologically usable form. Furthermore, because there is a close interplay between these micronutrients across the successive steps of energy production, all of them should be available simultaneously as the whole system may be slowed down by a lack in a single one of them....Severe deficiencies are no longer common, but there is some evidence that sub-clinical or marginal deficiencies can have negative consequences on physical and mental fatigue, as well as on cognitive and psychological functions."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...