My neurologist has prescribed Prozac and Seconal for my PD. I read where these two drugs cause decrease in Dopamine? Has anyone else heard or read about this?
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Foncie
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We need some background here. Are you taking any Parkinson's medications? What symptoms is your neurologist trying to alleviate?
I’m taking Rytary 23.75/95 mg two capsules three times a day. Neupro 8 mg patch daily. Thiamine HCL 500mg daily. Klonopin one at bedtime. Neurologist prescribed Prozac and Seconal when I was first diagnosed 2yrs ago. Thank you for responding.
From this and your other comment is not clear that you need these medications. That said, it is in order to make any changes with a doctor's supervision and tapering slowly rather than making any sudden changes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secob...
Secobarbital [Seconal] is considered to be an obsolete sedative-hypnotic (sleeping pill), and as a result, it has largely been replaced by the benzodiazepine family [like klonopin].
Hi there, are you anxious or depressed? I have been diagnosed for 15 years and I take
Paroxetine 10mgs twice daily. You may be having treatment for those conditions which are part of PD. As each of us has our own mix of symptoms and treatments it is very difficult to generalise.
No, I’m not depressed. I have a lot of faith. I don’t think I was depressed when neurologists started me on Prozac. I’m doing yoga, ride stationary bike and walk daily. I’m taking one day at a time. Just don’t want to be taking any meds that decrease dopamine. I live in Tennessee and its very difficult to get an appointment with MDS. I’ve been referred to a MDS at Washington University in Saint Louis. First available appointment is September 29th with referral. Was referred to Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville and they aren’t taking new patients.
If the drugs were prescribed for depression, anxiety, sleep, which sounds likely as they are not PD meds, perhaps a local psychiatrist could help you to slowly reduce them. It is not advisable to discontinue psychoactive drugs rapidly. Even if you do not feel depressed or anxious, a too rapid discontinuation could make you feel depressed and anxious!
A good rule of thumb is to reduce 10% of the previous dose every couple of weeks, one Med at a time. Some people can move faster than this, but don’t try to go too fast. If at any time you feel symptoms of depression and anxiety or insomnia coming on, return to the previous dose and wait a few weeks before trying again with a smaller reduction.
This may sound SLOW and it is, but it assures success without undue suffering from discontinuing a drug that your body has become accustomed to. I’ve used this method very successfully. Doctors will often tell you to go faster. This can be counterproductive as it can cause discontinuation symptoms.
It may require getting the meds compounded so that you can more easily control the amount you take (I use liquid compound and a syringe.)
As I said, a local psychiatrist could be of help, as these are psychiatric meds, but do check first if you can by message or phone with the doctor who originally prescribed to make sure you understand why they were prescribed in the first place. It’s not unusual for unnecessary meds to be prescribed, but best to get the whole picture before embarking on a change.
Are you near Nashville? I am also in TN. There are good MDS in nashville.
I have seen MSD at Vanderbilt last year. Very disappointed in his care. I’m getting worse and don’t know where to turn. Do you mind giving me name of your MSD in Nashville?
A fellow member highly recommended David Isaacs in Nashville...I am thinking of giving him a try.
Thank you for your response.
Our MDS is Dr. Isaacs. He is young, sharp, and doesn't dismiss natural levodopa therapies. My husband has an appointment with him end of this month. Last appointment was in May 2019. Yes, our FP made the referral, but I don't think it is needed, depending on your health insurance.
Strongly suggest anyone on meds of any kind read Drug Muggers by Suzy Cohen. It should be in every doctors office. You can look up any drug, see what nutrients it diminishes in your body and recommendations as to how much supplementation one needs to make up the deficit.
Dr’s have no clue about this beyond the necessity to take CoQ10 when taking statins. Example: Statins use the same pathway in the Krebs energy cycle as essential Q10 so statins squeeze Q10 out, resulting in diminished energy. Even so, it took them a long time to know this. We learned it via the patient grapevine in 2003 and stopped statin, took large quantities of Q10 (it wasn’t even made in the US then...we had to order huge yellow wafer from Japan). The intense fatigue that accompanies PD disappeared, his memory returned and although he still had PD symptoms, they didn’t include fatigue and memory problems. Doctors realized this only recently...since they are scientifically trained to only accept results of standardized testing. This problem was solved from the bottom up by anecdotal evidence and by pulmonary docs...other docs (including PD docs) didn’t know what to make of the symptoms and kept sending them on to other docs, some of whom were arthritis specialists. They realized it was not arthritis but a Statin/CoQ10 problem.
Everyone needs to know what negative effects exist from taking necessary drugs. We used supplements and lots of them for years to great effect...my PD husband who had great benefits in managing his secondary symptoms and me who just gets older. PD is said to be like premature aging and patients need nutrients to make up for that. I am 85 now and still take loads of supplements...the only pharmaceutical I take is optional hormone replacement. Repeatedly, docs and their nurses tell me I am the only patient they have who doesn’t take an array of drugs. It’s important to study it...not just take stuff willy-nilly. A good naturopathic MD is a huge help as they give lab tests unused by regular allopathic drs. SpectraCell, for example, reveals the levels of nutrients in ones cells, not just in plasma. You’ll know what the real highs and lows are.
in reply to Donzim
This question was about the need to take anti-depression meds and not about supplementation.
Donzim in reply to
I was responding to Foncie’s questioning a drug diminishing a hormone, ie, the possibility of psychotropic drugs diminishing dopamine. If it is drug interacting with drug, she can get that from her pharmacist.
in reply to Donzim
Your reply seemed to be referencing coQ10 - an enzyme?
Donzim in reply to
I was giving the Krebs cycle competition between Q10 and statins as an example of one substance diminishing another...the same principle addressed in Drug Muggers, ie, the diminishing effect of some pharmaceuticals on nutrients. This is rarely, if ever, addressed by doctors when they prescribe. It should be. Doctors for the most part now recognize the Q10/statin problem and I think there is automatic warning when going on statins but they didn’t know that for a long time.
in reply to Donzim
My GP certainly is aware of such issues and I am regularly tested for B12 as I take metformin. I also take a statin with no side effects so I guess my Q10 is not being reduced to any significant extent or effect.
Donzim in reply to
Almost all docs who prescribe statins now recommend Q10. It hardly has any side effects so not having any would probably not be an indication that there was no competition with statins. It is believed that it helps regulate glucose and that’s a big factor in any disease. It often helps with muscles and fatigue. I think the latest data indicates it doesn’t cure PD but does slow progress of the disease. It certainly helped my husband with fatigue. I take it myself and I don’t have a disease.
‘Statins have been found to reduce the amount of naturally occurring coenzyme Q10 in the body. Because coenzyme Q10 plays a role in muscle cell energy production, some researchers have proposed that taking a coenzyme Q10 supplement might reduce the risk of muscle-related side effects.’
in reply to Donzim
alzforum.org/news/research-...
Donzim in reply to
Thanks. Been following Flint Beal’s work since he began it. Haven’t kept up since my husband passed away a couple of years ago. So we already knew it didn’t cure PD and now we know it doesn’t slow it’s progression. I was open to that idea from studying my husbands reactions. There were obviously other factors at work with the changes we noted. Maybe just the increase in the functioning of the Krebs cycle...he had stopped the statins because he was losing his memory and had gone on Q10 along with some other supplements. Within weeks after going off statins, his memory returned and continued functioning well for years. As did his fatigue level which had been really debilitating. The muscle changes and gait problems remained. In his case, it may well have been an alteration in his glucose processing. He wasn’t diabetic but hypoglycemic under limited circumstances and I think this complicated his condition.
I understand there is a claim that Q10 oral is poorly absorbed and not enough can be ingested to make much difference anyway, and that the body manufactures its own in its necessary quantities.
So what is the science or personal experiences on whether dietary or oral Q10 makes any difference, and are there specific products that are better/worse at setting this in balance with statins?
I do not think that is true. It has been shown to help with other things than PD such as glucose regulation.
in reply to Donzim
The conclusions of a recent meta analysis of coQ10 and diabetes research:
6. Conclusions
It is clear that mitochondrial dysfunction secondary to oxidative stress contributes to the pathogenesis of T2DM. Deficiency in CoQ10 is often present among patients with T2DM due to various reasons. As a potent antioxidant, CoQ10 is assumed to scavenge excessive ROS and provide protection to cells, especially mitochondria from oxidative damage. Therefore, restoration of CoQ10 level among patients with T2DM by supplementation of exogenous CoQ10 could potentially alleviate oxidative stress, preserve mitochondrial function, and eventually lead to improvement of glycemic control. This hypothesis was partially supported by several studies [9,10,38,39,43,44,46,47,48]. However, there were also studies that report no significant improvement in T2DM [30,41,42,45]. Thus, it is still unclear, or impossible to make a definitive conclusion on whether supplementation of CoQ10 would provide beneficial effects for patients with T2DM with current available evidence. Large randomized clinical trials are needed to further investigate its effects in T2DM, using ubiquinol (the reduced form of CoQ10) with higher dosage.
Donzim in reply to
Thanks...I had read this. My concern was my husband, of course, and although I studied a lot on the subjects which might affect his condition, it was our personal experience, combined with very competent medical advice, which determined our use. There was no doubt that statins affected him negatively and that in his case, large doses of Q10 made a positive difference. I do not know if that change was related to glucose processing, competition with Krebs pathways or something else. That would be pure speculation.
We had a number of interesting experiences which weren’t explained by standardized studies. One was the discovery that large doses of niacin eliminated his hallucinations (Abram Hoffner protocol). Hyperbaric oxygen helped movement problems. Trans cranial stimulation was amazing. L-theanine controlled the intense anxiety my husband suffered from for years before taking it. Oral lavender controlled overwhelming anxiety when it broke through. None of these have been the subjects of standardized studies. But we didn’t care because they worked for us.
Our general philosophy was that even though PD was incurable, all the body’s systems needed to be supported as needed to make life as healthy as possible. Hence...supplements with amounts determined based on medical advice and SpectrCell lab tests.
in reply to Donzim
Thank you for your input.
Only Prozac out other SSRI's makes more Dopamine and Seratonin available and Seconal I assume is for sleep; You could ask if you can have something different for sleep such as Klonopin. Seconal works like Ambien and is heavy duty to knock you out. You cannot have alcohol with either Seconal or Klonopin. I can't find any research that states it decreases Dopamine.
in reply to Stazina
Klonopin is often prescribed for RBD (REM-Sleep Behaviour Disorder)- a non motor PD symptom.
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