Madopar vs Sinemet (& mucuna)

[Jennyjenny2]

Neuro just put my husband on Madopar (one of the side effects being nausea...for some reason he didn't prescribe Sinemet) We were hoping to supplement with mucuna once his body gets used to the drug. My understanding is that mucuna needs the carbidopa in Sinemet to be able to cross the BBB. Does the same apply to Madopar if it doesn't have carbidopa? Any information would be greatly appreciated as neither of us are coping very well with his severe depression and sleepless nights (we're both very thin and losing weight, no appetite)

[park_bear]

Madopar contains benserazide which is equivalent to carbidopa. If the Madopar does not agree with him perhaps the Sinemet would be better.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to park_bear]

Thank you so much for responding. There is so much talk about carbidopa and I couldn't find much on benserazide. You've set my mind at ease.

[park_bear in reply to Jennyjenny2]

The herb valerian root can help with sleep. (note - has bad smell before you get it down)

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to park_bear]

Thanks again, you're a wealth of knowledge! I'll find out about that. We've been using melatonin drops and it has been helpful, but maybe not as effective as it was 2 years ago? Lately it's the trips to the bathroom (between 5 and 7 per night) that seem to come on urgently in the wee small hours of the morning (pardon the pun). Then when awake the anxiety kicks in. Hopefully the antidepressants that he slowly started on 3 weeks ago will start to take effect soon.

[shirletenn1 in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Probably why the Dr didn't prescribe sinemet because of antidepressants.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to shirletenn1]

Hmmm maybe. Since found out that our neuro hasn't been prescribing Sinemet to any of the people in our support group.

[park_bear in reply to Jennyjenny2]

I avoid drinking fluid for 2 hours before bed except as absolutely necessary to avoid those nighttime trips.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to park_bear]

Thanks. We have tried that but to no avail. We are now wondering if maybe it's connected with the depression/anxiety?

[Autumn56 in reply to Jennyjenny2]

My husband has found the Super Healthy Prostate by Dr. David Williams extremely helpful for not having to get up nights. Before that I used to buy all kinds of brands of Saw Palmetto and herbal combinations and nothing worked. My sister told me about this and I am so glad to have found something that works. You don't have to wait weeks either. It starts working right away . I do hope you husband is on a good b-complex like Jigsaw or some other bio-available kind. It might be helpful for the depression. 5-HPT and L-tryptophan can be for good for sleep and depression. It helped my husband but for some reason he is sleeping so much better then he used to and no longer needs it.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Autumn56]

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately they won't ship to Australia. Thank you for the reminder on all that other good info too!!

[Rosabellazita in reply to park_bear]

Do you know whether or not that causes loose bowels?

[park_bear in reply to Rosabellazita]

Among what has been discussed here, the only thing I know of that can cause loose bowels is melatonin.

[Halestone]

Has you Husband had his prostate checked out by GP & scanned? My Husband was in the same position as you describe, forever up to urinate during night but little output - sleep deprivation caused anxiety, exhaustion, low mood, weight loss & feeling wretched. Pills didn't reduce the overlarge prostate and he's worn a catheter for 8 months. But recent surgery for prostate reduction / realignment means bladder control is 100% now. Additionally, his PD symptoms are improving too, with many fewer 'off' times each day, and stronger 'on' periods. He takes Madopar (instant) every 6 hours during day, 1 x CR Madopar at night plus 1 x Primapexil in the morning - with no adverse effects at all.

He takes no supplement - no additional 'anything' - simply eats a balanced healthy diet, enjoys a glass of cider most evening - and the prescribed meds: -

I do hope your Husband can find some relief - for I know how exhausted you both must be.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Halestone]

Thanks for your detailed reply! He has had his prostate checked and they tell us it is within the scale for someone his age but I must admit it does sound exactly as you described your husband.

What we are thinking at this stage is that the antidepressants have started to work as we had thought maybe the frequent urination could have been from the extreme anxiety. The last 3 nights he has only woken once or twice each night...sleep deprivation has horrible consequences. Also he is a lot brighter within himself, not so withdrawn with the blank expressionless face.

You're right, we have both been totally exhausted. (Your poor husband having a catheter in for 8 months!)

So pleased for you that it is all sorted.

[Stevenmast]

I have been taking mucuna for about 8 months and that's all I take. I am now in my 9th year of Parkinson's. I believe the issue with crossing the blood-brain barrier is you must not have protein when you take the mucuna until it kicks in. Unfortunately I work so I save most of my proteins for in between and mainly at night when I'm home. I used to take Carbidopa levodopa until I found mucuna I take 1/2 teaspoon dos and it lasts me 4 hours almost every time.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Stevenmast]

Really? You take mucuna and nothing else? That's really interesting. How long were you taking the carbidopa levodopa for before starting the mucuna? Where do you get it from, and do you know what % levadopa it has in it? Also is it organic?

[Rosabellazita in reply to Stevenmast]

I'm taking it also but it doesn't tell you how much to take so I take 1/2 teaspoon every 4 hours but has not made any difference in my tremor

[Stevenmast in reply to Rosabellazita]

What you eat and the timing of when you eat is critical to the effectiveness the mucuna will have on you. Try having 3/8 of a teaspoon or a half a teaspoon in your coffee/tea in the morning on an empty stomach. After you take it and you feel it start to work anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes you then can have food. Allow your breakfast to digest and your second dose should be equally as effective. What mucuna did you buy? Are you taking it on an empty stomach? Has it made you nauseous?

[Rosabellazita in reply to Stevenmast]

I bought zandopa

[Stevenmast in reply to Rosabellazita]

All I'm familiar with is nutrivitashop.com and search for l-dopa. It came recommended to me by somebody that did a lot of research for his wife looking for the best source. It seems to be the same as zandopa but perhaps the quality is better and maybe worth a try. You can get small amounts. I've been taking it for well over a year now I've had Parkinson's roughly 10 years and it works pretty well. I recently started taking Carbidopa levodopa Time released at night but during the day I only take mucuna. Good luck let me know if you try it

[Mucuna123 in reply to Stevenmast]

Hi! I have a question for you. Does mucuna help you with your tremors? I take mucuna at 7: 30 am every day on empty stomach but it makes my tremor worse like for 1 hour and a half. After that I can dress myself better, write better, etc.. but I dont see a significant improvement in my hand/ leg tremor. Do you use anything as a " carrier" for mucuna?

[Juliegrace in reply to Mucuna123]

How much and what kind (brand, l-dopa content) are you taking?

[Mucuna123 in reply to Juliegrace]

Hi Juliegrace. Hope you are doing well. I am taking mucuna from nutrivita shop. IT is 100 % l- dopa. The amount I am taking is 1/8 of a teaspoon. Every time I take my mucuna, I start shaking more than before taking it for about 1 hour and a half. Once I am ON ( normally 1 hour and a half after taking it) i notice my writing, voice and movement are better. My tremor improves as well but not that much.

I also feel like a little bit of headache right away when I take mucuna but after 1 hour or maybe more the headache gets better. Does somebody feel a weird thing in their head right away when taking mucuna? Any help greatly appreciated.

[Juliegrace in reply to Mucuna123]

I briefly took that MP. I measured it on a jeweler's scale and 1/32 of a teaspoon is equivalent to 100mg of levodopa. So 1/8 of a teaspoon is 400mg, which is a huge dose. Very possibly the shaking you are experiencing is dyskinesia. Consider buying a scale, they are inexpensive on Amazon.

[Mucuna123 in reply to Juliegrace]

Thank you so much! Tomorrow I am going to try that for sure. Thank you! Can I ask you so e questions? 1. Do you take your mucuna with anything( coffee, etc..) to have a better effect? 2. Do you ever shake when taking mucuna? 3. Does mucuna cause you headaches or a feeling of weakness until you are ON? 4. How long it take for you to be ON? 5. Do you take sinemet with mucuna or just mucuna?

[Juliegrace in reply to Mucuna123]

I only took the MP briefly. I tried it to see if it would give me less dyskinesia than c/l (carbidopa/levodopa = Sinemet). It was no better. I take c/l 10/100 and amantadine. I don't think it is a good idea to take c/l and MP together, at least at the same time. I think some people will take whole MP - ones that are 10-40 % l-dopa - to bridge their off times between c/l doses or when they want to take a smaller dose. The general consensus is that it is better to take levodopa on an empty stomach to get the best effects. If by shake you mean abnormal movements , you are most likely experiencing dyskinesia which is a side effect of too much levodopa. There are also some companion supplements that can be taken with MP for better results. Search here for Silvestrov. He put together a protocol for taking MP that many people have followed. Also, search erniediaz1018. He has recently posted about successfully taking the100% MP. It generally takes me 25-35 minutes to turn "on" in the morning. I do not take any meds at night. I hope this helps.

[Mucuna123 in reply to Juliegrace]

Thank you!

[munchybunch in reply to Stevenmast]

My husband takes Madopar but it doesn’t seem to help him at all. Do you think mucuna might help ? Thanks

[Stevenmast in reply to munchybunch]

It sounds like your husband may need a stronger dose or different medicine. Mucuna is just a natural version of levodopa which I believe is in madopar

[Stevenmast]

Hi, I was taking Carbidopa levodopa for approximately 8 months. I went quite a while before I felt I needed medicine. That is not the case anymore, unfortunately. Nutrivitashop.com is where I buy it. They claim it is 99.6% pure pharmaceutical grade organically grown from India although it is not certified. There are times when I get a little nauseous but it's not for long periods usually no more than a half hour. My best most effective dos is in the morning with coffee but I use almond milk or non-dairy milks that don't have protein. During the day I mix it with a half a teaspoon of vitamin C that I bought from the same place in bulk form. I buy 250 g bags for $62 it last at least 3 to 4 months. I used anywhere from 1 to three times a day depending if I'm working or not. When I'm home I try not to take it so as I don't build up a resistance to it. When I started I only took one eighth of a teaspoon just to see how I would respond within a few days I was doing 3/8. I increased the dose to half a teaspoon and it gets me rough before hours sometimes five and then the party is over. LOL if you have any other questions I'll be more than happy to help you! By the way you don't need to buy a 250 gram bag they have much smaller versions for a lot less money.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Stevenmast]

Thanks for all that information! So much to work out, but you've made it easy. When you stopped the carb/levo, did you stop cold turkey, or did you wean off before starting the mucuna, or introduce the mucuna before reducing the carb/levo? Sorry about all these questions.

[Mucuna123 in reply to Stevenmast]

Do you feel any kind of headache right away after taking mucuna?

[Stevenmast]

I was taking three or four 100 mg of Cl a day. I weaned off over a one week period then I started the mucuna. I personally started with two eighths of a teaspoon. Then I had done 3/8 for a couple of weeks until I realized half a teaspoon AKA 4/8 was the right dose for me. Meaning I got roughly 4 hours of up time which was around what I was getting from the CL. Initially I was so concerned with trying to dose the same amount of mucuna that equaled 100 mg of Cl but I soon realized it wasn't enough and doesn't really work the same way. In my research I found there is something in green tea that's helpful getting the mucuna to cross the BBB but I had zero love affair with green tea. The person who recommended mucuna to me had great results mixing it in coffee. I find coffee works for me as well. It is critical that you do not mix it with milk or any protein because it won't work as well. It takes roughly 30 minutes or so for the mucuna to kick in after that time you can eat if you're not too nauseous LOL. Try to eat in between your doses. Good luck and let me know how you make out! P.S. As I mentioned before I mix vitamin C A half a teaspoon as well in my other doses because I can't do much more than a cup of coffee a day.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Stevenmast]

I've ordered the mucuna and waiting for it to arrive. Because we've been on a roller coaster trying to deal with the severe depression AND the Parkinson's (with the depression being the most debilitating at present!) we've decided to wait until all settles down (unfortunately with doctor's drugs) then we'll try and work out the correct dosage for my husband with the mucuna. He's now seeing a psychiatrist who is very knowledgeable with anti-depressants and Parkinson's. For the first time I feel like I'm not doing it on my own, even though I feel I have failed in my attempt to do this whole thing naturally. But I also know when he is stabilized we can then introduce the mucuna and cut back on the madopar. Thank you for all those ideas on how to take it. I will definitely keep you posted.

[Rosabellazita in reply to Stevenmast]

When first starting mucuna how long does it take to work days? Week? Month?

[Stevenmast in reply to Rosabellazita]

Right away but I was taking 25 / 100 Carbidopa levodopa for about 7 months. I kind of weaned off quick and went right into the mucuna.

[Rosabellazita in reply to Stevenmast]

How did u wean off? Was the c/l working for your Tremor?

[Stevenmast in reply to Rosabellazita]

Yes. As to weaning off I just took less and less each day for one week then I started up the mucuna three times a day.

[Stevenmast in reply to Rosabellazita]

I just read your bio I didn't realize you weren't diagnosed with Parkinson's. That is probably the reason the l-dopa is not working for you because you don't Lack dopamine. I will trade you Parkinson for the hand tremor what do you say? LOL

[Stevenmast]

Good luck with everything!

[munchybunch]

Hi fellow Aussie! did you have any luck with finding anyone who does Marty Hinz protocol in Oz? My husband has just been put on Madopar too and 10 days in there is no improvement . Have you tried Mucuna yet? I d love to find someone in Australia who understands Mucuna a enough to help us get the dosage right.