Can bone trauma initiate CLL onset?

[Jmmck]

Hi all,

Curious question to the knowledge hive!

Approx 10 years ago, I went to the doc a few times over stating “somethings not right”. This was the start of the watch and wait, although diagnosis itself was not till Feb 2023. I’ve just been reading posts relating to CLL & Fatigue - this and other generalised pains and picking bugs up are all things that prompted that visit. It’s such a thing! Anyways, my question is relating to bone trauma and disruption to our bone marrow.

I was a motorcyclist and had an accident in ‘03 resulting in a compound femur fracture and both arms smashed…. All three limbs were plated and screwed. Because the femur was so badly damaged, bone graft was taken from one hip, in the hope that would help healing. I slipped once I was beginning to mobilise, and disrupted the plate and tore screws out.

The next operation was adding longer screws, another bone graft and this time a bone growth paste, in an effort to save my leg. Success! I sometimes wonder if the trauma and grafts, along with the paste, could have altered the bone marrow. Is trauma to the bone a possible trigger for CLL?

Side note, I have 80% use of that leg now and have signed up for a half marathon to celebrate 15 years since I first ran again! (Fatigue and knee pain is kicking though so it may be a walk half rather than a run!) Movement is a gift.

[johnliston]

I just had lumbar fusion surgery on my back because of a spine fracture the doctors think this was caused by an infection. From what I understand this is more common in immune compromised people. I had to have 6 weeks of Vancomycin infusions twice a day to clear the infection, but there's still a chance it could come back. The infection returning is also more common in immune compromised. So in the sense that CLLers are immune compromized I guess that it can effect the bones.

john

[lankisterguy Administrator Volunteer]

Hi Jmmck,

We have lots of past discussions on what starts us being immune compromised and if CLL is the "chicken or the egg".

We know that as we age, our immune system declines, and nearly all cancers appear more frequently in older people. I vaguely recall that a few CLL cells can be found in the blood of 40% of people over 60 years and much higher % in people over 80 years, but very few of them develop into full blow CLL. Aparently like controlling shingles, the immune system keeps those CLL cells in check, but not for everyone.

There is also evidence that stress, anxiety, injury etc. are related to less effective immune systems.

So, my question would be, whether your multiple serious injuries, operations and physical stress accelerated the normal decline in immunity with age, and that allowed some early CLL cells to escape being destroyed by your immune system.

Just food for thought with absolutely no reliable clinical data to prove this theory.

Len

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

CLL is caused by DNA damage to B lymphocytes. I don't see how that the trauma you went through could cause that.

You are right about movement being a gift. You are certainly an inspiration in showing how to celebrate that gift.

Neil

[Smakwater]

With whatever credible science we find available, the short answer is no

An Injury may somehow remotely be an influencer in the appearing, however, cause is no.

Otherwise the cure would be not to become injured and defining injury becomes the subject.

JM

[BigDee]

Hello Jmmck

Good question. I had spiral wound breaks of both tibia and fibula. As luck would have it, doctors decided not to pin or plate breaks as bones did not puncture skin, so reduced infection risk. I was however in full/half leg cast for 8 months. From the x-rays it looks like the bone marrow growth is blocked by mending of bones. In my case I doubt the broken bones caused my CLL.

[SofiaDeo Administrator]

I think it's more "severe stress of any kind can affect the immune system, causing increased lymphocytosis" and the resulting stressors increase the chances of mutations. So not bone per se, although I also had a broken leg starting my year of insane stress levels. When I've come out of remission, there was severe emotional/physical stress (more emotional) no broken limbs.

A recent study linked stress with CLL activity. Here's a non-techy link discussing the study.

news.osu.edu/stress-linked-...

Here's links supporting my "severe stress of any kind can help cancer occur/grow" statement:

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

Data regarding bone problems specifically contributing to bone marrow cancers has been conflicting:

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

Since prolonged stress is linked with a number of diseases, having CLL start, or be aggravated by it, seems reasonable.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

I am unaware of technology with the ability to determine if our defect is in the marrow, or if it started with a mutated lymphocyte that then went on to replicate. There are so many places a DNA defect can occur before a lymphocyte matures, and even after it has matured, DNA damage may also occur.

[TruthJunkie in reply to SofiaDeo]

You are so good, SofiaDeo! Mahalo for sharing these articles.