Question about CLL & intestinal yeast/Candida

[LadyLuckyLuna]

Since taking several strong antibiotics, I've had bad diarrhea/gas/bloating. I'm convinced the cause is Candida/yeast/fungus. Why? I was advised to eat an anti-Candida diet and take 3-4 tablespoons of coconut oil in the morning and after a week, digestion became normal! But I went back to normal eating and the problems came back!

I tried diet and coconut oil again but this time the problems didn't disappear, and I was told Candida can develop resistance to coconut oil. So I stopped coconut oil for a month and continued the diet (including lots of fresh ginger tea) which in itself does help a lot. Now I've started the coconut oil again. But I'm discouraged.

I'm writing this post because it just dawned on my that the Candida is related to CLL (I was diagnosed with it 4 years ago). CLL makes all infections tougher to fight, right? Not just viral and bacterial but fungus too?

I considered taking an anti-fungal medication but was told that they are very hard on the liver. Does anyone have experience with this? I don't think most MDs "believe" in intestinal Candida. Is that true?

Thank you.

[AussieNeil Administrator]

Hi LadyLuckLuna,With respect to your statement "I don't think most MDs "believe" in intestinal Candida. Is that true?" Candida infections are indeed considered to cause health problems by MDs as covered here: healthline.com/nutrition/ca... And yes, "CLL makes all infections tougher to fight. Not just viral and bacterial but fungus too".

There is certainly a difference in opinion of how often Candida is thought to be the cause of poor health between naturalistic/holistic/integrative and regular MDs. I suspect the true figure lies somewhere between.

With respect to how often it's a problem when we have CLL, I find the number of returns from a search of community posts to be a useful indicator. So I was surprised to find we only have 20 past posts before yours mentioning Candida, of which perhaps 10 are personal accounts.

Neil

[LadyLuckyLuna in reply to AussieNeil]

Thanks. I'm looking at the materials you sent.

[cajunjeff]

I agree with Jammin me. There are all sorts of treatable problems that can cause indigestion. If you are dealing with some sort of bug, I wouldn’t self diagnose based on some perceived response to a certain diet.

I suffered with stomach pain for months. Eventually a stool sample identified an h pylori infection. My gastroenterologist suspected SIBO, small intestinal bowel overgrowth, or an ulcer. I had a scope to rule out ulcers.

If you have one of these tricky bacterial infections superimposed on being immunocompromised, you might need some strong antibiotics as coconut oil wont treat an infection.

I’m not saying you do have or dont have an infection. But I would get a medical doctor workup. Most infections can be treated with no harm done, Untreated infections can lead to ulcers with possible more long term implications.

I put off seeing a doctor for months, waiting for my system to fix itself, and not wanting to go see yet another doctor. I should have gone to the doctor earlier, the antibiotics I took did the job.

[SofiaDeo]

I manage a susceptibility to intestinal candida by diet. This won't work for everyone. I did have a course of treatment decades ago, before the CLL diagnosis.

There aren't controlled studies showing that dietary measures are definitely effective. But a number of people think/post about avoiding simple sugars & starches that are "easy nutrition" for any imbalance in gut flora, and eating both soluble and insoluble fibers to nourish and strengthen gut bacteria, help keeps a system in better balance. So I know it helps me, personally, as others have said. But there's no research backing our beliefs.

Do you currently eat processed foods? Do you eat a lot of sugars and starches and gluten/yeast products? What about grains and dairy? Are there many fermented foods you eat that may help your gut? What about amounts and types of fiber to strenghten gut bacteria?

Whatever your "normal eating" is, something about it is no longer benefitting you. As we age, our tolerance for foods may change. A classic example is the lactose intolerance many develop when older.

Whatever was affected by the antibiotics is having problems bouncing back on your current "normal diet" so something needs to be adjusted IMO. Without eating 3-4 tablespoons of coconut oil daily forever after, you can put it on your skin instead lololol.

I've had some skin issues, and use coconut oil as a moisturizer at least a few times a week all over.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

P.S. Not sure who is telling you candida can become "resistant" to coconut oil. A component of the oil, caprylic acid, penetrates the wall, rupturing it. Oil dissolves in the membrane, not sure how the membrane could change/mutate enough to prevent this.

Coconut oil is used in preterm infants with Candida overgrowth. I would suggest instead of choosing foods with seed oils, a modicum of coconut oil daily or several times a week would help. In addition to cutting back on processed, sugar, starches that are inflammatory and help disruption of the gut.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I like to mix my organic, expeller pressed cocnut oil half and half with ghee. I use that to flavor my "well buttered vegetables", especially when taking venetoclax.

The least expensive place I know of in the US selling a quality oil is online:

healthytraditions.com

A small pint jar can be $20, I buy it by the gallon or 5 gallon tub, whichever is having the best sale when I am running low. Unlike many other oils, it doesn't go rancid easily.

[LadyLuckyLuna in reply to SofiaDeo]

Thanks for your reply. To answer some of it: Besides CLL, I was diagnosed with Celiac & am lactose intolerant. Another reason I think I have Candida/fungus, besides that recent, short-lived coconut-oil success story, is that an ear/nose/throat doc recently gave me a 1-dose anti-fungal & I had normal poop for 1 day!

For weeks/months after taking the antibiotics, I didn't eat processed foods but I did eat some sugars (gourmet chocolate bars) lactose-free milk & "healthy" carbs like potatoes, gluten free pasta & brown rice, although no wheat that I was aware of.

I went to a gastro for a long time about 1-2 years ago (before the antibiotics). Besides a zillion tests for "critters," she established I have Celiac, though she never seemed 100% sure. But she didn't tell me these fine points about gluten so until very recently I was consuming it!

In desperation, I've been reading more on gluten & fungus and it produced some surprises. Guys, even freaking soy sauce usually has gluten! Turns out the nuts & nut butters I thought were healthy say in fine print they may have traces of gluten from the factory. Ditto quinoa.

But the experts don't agree. Some say avoid fermented foods! Don't let beef or any type of dairy touch your lips! Eat only cruciferous vegetables!

When I followed more stringent advice, along with plenty of ginger tea, things improved a lot. I don't have to get up 5 times a night to go to the bathroom. I also got caprylic acid & am taking more probiotics (which I've long taken but don't seem to help much).

My current draconian diet is: Breakfast: fruit that's not sweet (i.e. papaya, blueberries, the juice of 4 limes in water per day), pancakes made with eggs & almond & coconut flour. Dinner: sauteed chicken or salmon & salads/vegetables simply seasoned with oregano, olive oil, vinegar, butter, salt. My salvation in the way of a high calorie snack, so I don't wither away, is carefully selected nut butter in celery sticks!

I'm grateful to everyone for your thoughtful replies and for reading this.

[SofiaDeo in reply to LadyLuckyLuna]

FYI San-J makes an organic gluten free soy sauce, if you enjoy it. Can you eat hummus? That goes well with celery sticks, & is easy to make in a blender.

[LeoPa]

That is certainly a tough way of finding out that was most people consider "normal eating" is anything but normal. I hope you get it sorted out soon. 🤞

[LadyLuckyLuna]

Thank you.