Enlarged Lymph Nodes & Vaccines

[Vindicatrix]

As a matter of interest perhaps, after three terrible days following my 6th Phiser jab, and 120 Pulse rate. which has now reduced, as have the headaches , and I am feeling somewhat better. Although I now have an egg size lump in my right armpit, same arm as the jab.

I had the same last time, and it took some weeks for it to dissolve. My Haematologist said then, that this was a sign that my Immune System was working against the adverse results of the Vaccine, and I am hoping that the same applies this time.

It also may be worth mentioning that I have been 'Anemic' for three years, until now none of my medics have given me anything for it. Like many of us, Fatigue is an ongoing problem, and at last I have been given an 'Iron' supplement in the hope that it will approve matters in that regard.

I am also told that it takes 1-4 weeks to kick in. Has anyone had similar experience's?.

All the best. Ron.

[johnliston]

I had a CT scan of my lungs on the 18th of May, and although the lungs were fine, I had 2 swollen lymph notes in my right armpit area. I messaged my hem/onc and told her she replied that it might be a early sign of CLL progression, but now that I read your post I remember I had the Phiser vaccine 3 days before the CT scan. Too many doctors.

john

[Vindicatrix in reply to johnliston]

That sounds about right Johnliston, it's always worth getting your Haematologist man rto check any new lumps. I did and he put my mind at rest. There definitely seems to have been a connection with the Vaccine.

I am having a CT Scan relating to a long term viral infection, in a couple of weeks, and I'm sure they will be able to assess the state of most of my Lymph Nodes then.

Hope things are going well for you at the moment.

All the best Ron

[LeoPa]

I read about many cases of swollen lymph node under the armpit on the side of the vaccine on this site.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to LeoPa]

Swollen armpit nodes on the same side as the vaccination are a recognised effect of these vaccinations and as Ron's haematologist informed him, it's a sign that his immune system is working as intended to boost his immunity. Macrophages take samples of the spike antigen produced in muscle cells from the mRNA vaccines, to armpit nodes via the lymphatic system. There they present the spike protein to B and helper T cells in the node germinal centers that then swell due to all the dividing lymphocytes, trying for matching receptors that will recognise the spike protein and hence the virus. Well matched B and T cells clone, maturing into memory B and T cells, along with antibody producing plasma cells. The swelling resolves over time, as apoptosis naturally kicks in when there's no further stimulus from a viral infection or booster.It's all described in much more technical detail in The lymphatic system and COVID-19 vaccines

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"The COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are administered intramuscularly (into the deltoid muscle in most cases), and muscles are rich in both blood vessels and lymphatics. Because these vaccines are preferentially transported into the lymphatics as described above, following their intramuscular injection, they are swiftly delivered to the lymph nodes that drain the muscle. Studies with experimental animals revealed that vaccine transport after intramuscular injection is restricted mainly to the local LNs that drain the injection site and that the vaccine is not readily disseminated systemically (23–25), unless non-physiologically large doses are injected. Indeed, a PET CT (positron emission tomography and computed tomography) study using [18F]FDG in human volunteers confirmed that prominent vaccine-associated LN swelling occurs selectively in the axillary and supraclavicular LNs of the ipsilateral side in relation to the vaccine injection site (26). Another study found that the LN swelling often persisted for more than 12 weeks (27). These LNs are the sites where the cells of the innate and adaptive immune systems interact."

Neil

[Vindicatrix in reply to AussieNeil]

Thanks for the info AussieNeil, very helpful

All the best

Ron

[LeoPa in reply to AussieNeil]

I did not have any such enlargements after my vaccines. Does it mean in my case the vaccines were not working?

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to LeoPa]

It's perhaps more probable, particularly given you have early stage CLL, that your nodes are just less reactive. Not all healthy people report enlarged nodes despite mRNA vaccines proving very effective. Also some of us have very reactive nodes. Some of the pandemic related research had helped us better understand how we respond to infections, such as the article I referenced earlier healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... I sincerely hope that such research can lead to breakthroughs so that we can package the minimal amount of biological material from pathogens into vaccines that give us good immunity to them without our bodies overreacting.

[LeoPa in reply to AussieNeil]

Thanks! That is interesting. How can a more damaged immune system be more reactive while a less damaged one be less reactive. Isn't it all amazing...

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to LeoPa]

Perhaps because a more damaged immune system is trying harder to less effect? Don't forget that during somatic hypermutation, your B cells undergo genetic changes in the IGHV gene region, so that they can express different B Cell Receptors (BCRs). It's the variant part of the BCR that is later churned out by your plasma calls as free floating immunoglobulins. There's a lot of mix and match going on in your nodes, mediated by helper T cells, in order to find BCRs specific to epitope sites on the spike protein. That's potentially a lot of useless B and T lymphocytes that eventually undergo apoptosis.

Neil

[Vindicatrix in reply to AussieNeil]

Way above me mate, However I'm ok with Bad, Moderate, or Good. If you could translate all the Technical stuff into those categories, that would be great. (Am Laffin)

Regards Ron

[SofiaDeo in reply to LeoPa]

If the damage is in an area causing excessive reaction to various stimulus, a damaged immune system could react more than the undamaged immune system. Similar to the autoimmune diseases, when our body is overreacting to things instead of reacting normally.

[hopefulbunny]

I had Pfizer vaccine a couple of weeks ago followed by one day of feeling very unwell - headache, shivery, aching from head to foot, extreme fatigue - then 5 days of swollen, painful lymph gland in armpit 😞. Dread having this vaccine as these miserable aftereffects happen every time, let's just hope it's a sign of our immune systems kicking in.

[Vindicatrix in reply to hopefulbunny]

It seems quite common with CLL'ers, as that's exactly what my haematologist said when I went to him with a new lump after a Vaccine, "That's good, it's your Immunity System' kicking in'. I was vert reassured.

All the best

Ron

[Qualicum]

hi Vindicatrix I also get a enlarged lymph node under my arm every covid shot and flu shot also. I had a cat scan when first diagnosed 3 days after my vaccine also and they were quite enlarged then a couple of weeks later had an another scan and they had gone down. So the vaccine definitely does that to me.

[kablea]

Are you eating, or able to eat, an iron rich diet. Liver, blackpudding and all red meats will raise your iron levels? I was anaemic twice in the past as a near vegetarian but no problem since I ate more meat. My consultant was opposed to vegetarian diets as regards CLL. I manage a lot of exercise and do not suffer with fatigue.

[Vindicatrix in reply to kablea]

That is very interesting to me kablea, I have been Anemic for some time (Three years or so) I am still going through a bad bout of cold Virus (5 weeks and counting) and have been seen very recently by my Haematologist who checked me out and was happy,

He is nevertheless sending me for a CT Scan. He is also for the first time, giving me Iron tablets, which ties in with what you are saying. I was quite physically active before the Infection., and am particularly Fatigued now. Perhaps the Iron pill will help.

I used to eat a lot of Black pudding and Iron rich foods, but not so much lately. I will certainly increase them now.

All the best Ron

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Vindicatrix]

Anaemia is common with CLL, because of;

1) Infiltration of the bone marrow, reducing red blood cell production capacity

2) Spleen enlargement, filtering out red blood cells before their time

3) Auto-antibodies that can destroy red blood cells (which can be ruled out by a Coombs/DAT test)

There are more previous treatment related factors covered in cllsociety.org/2021/08/anem...

Assuming that you have adequate folate and iron in your diet (bearing in mind you consciously need to work at having enough iron if you don't eat meat), some of us have difficulty absorbing of vitamin B12, due to insufficient gastric intrinsic factor to bind to the B12. If additional B12 doesn't do the trick, B12 injections are needed.

When your address an inadequate diet, takes time for those dietary changes to show up in your blood testing. That's because red blood cells have an average life expectancy of about 100 days, so after 30 days, only 30% of your red blood cells will have been produced with a higher haemoglobin content. You should see an improvement in your MCH and MCV (Mean Corpuscular Haemoglobin and Volume respectively), MCHC (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin Concentration) and a worsening of your RDW (Red blood cell Distribution Width) for the few months it takes to replace the low haemoglobin red blood cells.

Neil