Has anyone tried Hydroxychloroquin for CLL?

[sharksalive]

There are studies showing HCQ causes apoptosis in CLL, lowering the WBC. Did anyone take HCQ for covid and find their WBC dropped?

[SofiaDeo]

I am unaware of studies *in humans or animals* that show beneficial effect, at non toxic drug levels. I know there have been some test tube studies, but the concentrations a human would have to take would be higher, and potentially contribute to hydroxychloroquine reactions like irreversible retina damage. Doses used in diseases like lupus are lower, I think. But I haven't seen any human studies. Do you have links to references? I know a number of older drugs are being screened for many different diseases, and hydroxychloroquine is one of them.

[Seabreeze13 in reply to SofiaDeo]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/121...

[SofiaDeo in reply to Seabreeze13]

This is a small sample, 20 different CLL patient cell lines *in a test tube*. It does *not* allow one to extrapolate any claims about treating patients with this drug. The authors themselves made no claims about it being useful in treating CLL. They merely reported what they observed in the test tubes.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to SofiaDeo]

To which I would add that the experiment provides very little guidance on LC (lethal concentration). All that it notes is;The mean LC50 calculated for the cells of 20 patients was 32 +/- 7 microg/ml (range, 10-75 microg/ml). We observed a large increase in apoptotic cell number after 24 h of incubation with 50 microg/ml HCQ (55 +/- 6 vs. 23 +/- 3% in medium alone, p < 0.001).

:

HCQ had marked selective cytotoxicity when compared with normal blood mononuclear cells, in which the LC50 was >100 microg/ml at 24 h.

1) The range, 10-75 microg/ml for the LC50 is quite wide. In practice you'd need to allow for a higher dose to be effective, given cells taken only from 20 patients were tested.

2) The LC50 of >100 microg/ml at 24 h is way too close to what was determined was lethal for CLL cells.

3) The LC comparisons are only against "normal blood mononuclear cells", not every other cell type in the human body.

4) Which fits with the HCQ dose used in clinical trials for COVID-19 being about a tenth this, or around 5 microg/ml, which is below the lowest reported LC50 of 10 microg/ml

4) CLL cells in our bodies surround themselves with nurse cells, through which they can recover from poisoning chemicals

5) Separate CLL cells from their nurse cells and they are quite fragile. Lots of chemicals can kill them in a test tube, but it's a different story when they are in a living body.

Doesn't look very promising

Neil

[Seabreeze13 in reply to SofiaDeo]

And there will probably never be human trials, no matter how promising, because there is no $$ to be made on HCQ.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Seabreeze13]

There will never be human trials because of the high risk of killing people. Per my calculations, healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... all you need is for one person to forget they have taken their dose so they take another and they will have significantly exceeded their LC50 amount.

Neil

[LeoPa]

Good question. If there is a CLL patient who contracted malaria, had it treated with hydroxychloroquine and noticed an improvement of his CLL please raise your hand.