EGCG & Curcumin

[nuji]

Any data or opinion on which commercial supplement (brands) of EGCG and Turmeric/Curcumin are good?

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

Based on the trial results of an Australian turmeric clinical trial, which was done on 21 people with CLL, I wouldn't expect much benefit from turmeric, even before you take into consideration the questionable trial protocol. See: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

That's confirmed by the paper Evidence for and Against Green Tea and Turmeric in the Management of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

The authors, including Dr Anthony Mato, are from the Center for CLL, Abramson Cancer Center in Philadelphia, PA and the CLL Program, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY

It concludes with respect to turmeric, "At present, the evidence is insufficient to recommend the usage of turmeric or curcumin extracts as CLL-directed therapy. Although the treatment has very limited toxicity, no oral regimen has been shown to be tolerated and able to achieve the perceived therapeutic levels in serum."

While I consider that there is better evidence for EGCG than any other supplement, the only human clinical trials were done with a pharmaceutical grade extract Polyphenon-E, which is no longer produced. Because the manufacturer withdrew from the market, unfortunately we have no long term data. EGCG doesn't come without side effects either, mainly gastrointestinal and importantly a risk of liver damage (transaminitis). I could only tolerate half the Mayo Clinic phase 2 trial dose before my liver function tests spiked.

Again from the earlier referenced paper, "From the reported data, our current recommendation is to avoid green tea, both as EGCG and as an extract, usage by CLL patients, especially those with any history of liver or gastrointestinal disease or receiving CLL-directed therapy. The current research for green tea in CLL has demonstrated minimal activity in terms of objective responses, mostly in asymptomatic, early-stage patients who would not normally warrant CLL-directed therapy by the International working group CLL criteria. In addition, the current data support the occurrence of significant adverse events (even with limited exposure) associated with green tea, especially its extracts and EGCG. This is especially concerning when most patients who consume green tea extracts/EGCG are asymptomatic from the perspective of their underlying disease."

I appreciate that you may not have easy or affordable access to the newer targeted

CLL therapies where you live, hence the attraction to these supplements. It's certainly possible to get lab test reports on supplements sold in the USA, which provide information on the dose strength, plus contaminants such as fillers, heavy metals, bacteria, fungi/mould, but per the above, they do come with risks and have questionable benefit.

Neil

[nuji in reply to AussieNeil]

Thank you very much for your reply

[lankisterguy Volunteer]

Hi nuji,

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I don't have any first hand data for you, but I had heard that Mayo Clinic stopped its trial of EGCG and Curcumin because they could not find reliable & safe sources for them.

Also here is a discussion initiated by AussieNeil l from 8 months ago that reviews some of the concerns about the few clinical trials on the subject.

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

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Here is a link to all 102 previous posts that mention those words

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

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Len

[nuji in reply to lankisterguy]

Thanks Lankisterguy.

[Hoffy in reply to lankisterguy]

As far as I know they ran out of funding for the ECGC trials but they did a phase 1 and 2 trial.

The data is all online. ECGC showed ok results. The Combo with Curcumin results were just shown in-vitro. You have to watch liver function if you take in a high dose and you should be monitored by a doctor. See my past posts.

Be well,

Hoffy

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Hoffy]

Mitsui Norin, the company supplying the pharmaceutical grade EGCG extract Polyphenon-E used in the CLL clinical trials, withdrew from the oral market and successfully achieved FDA approval for a Polyphenon-E based genital and perianal wart ointment: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol...

Also, counter to the claims that there is no interest in patenting supplement based cancer treatments, Mitsui Nori did just that for their green tea derived poylphenon

patents.google.com/patent/W...

Likewise, Mayo Clinic did so for its synergistic use of Polyphenon-E with proven CLL treatments.

Neil

[bennevisplace]

As noted by AussieNeil, the evidence in favour of curcumin in CLL is weak, though other health benefits are better supported. Definitely worth carefully researching potential downsides too. For example curcumin can exacerbate effects of low platelets.

Most oral formulations of curcumin will be largely degraded in the body before reaching the bloodstream. A few have been designed to be highly bioavailable. Again, do your research e.g. sciencedirect.com/science/a....

[Teddo]

In addition to liver and Gi issues, it affected my sxs related to enlarged prostate and sensitive bladder. I tried the combo early on in my w+w period, gradually increasing the dose of EGCG. When I hit 1400 mg per day despite it being de-caffeinated my nighttime urination increased to 4-5 times per night. I stopped b/c I felt the degree of disrupted sleep would be more harmful to me than the hoped for beneficial effect from EGCG.

[Ginajetta]

Sorry I just saw your msg from 3 months ago. I responded to your question.