On beta glucans (discussed but not instead of treatment!)

[Vlaminck]

Hi, folks, despite understandable skepticism, I continue to research articles on various phytochemicals and CLL (not in lieu of treatment but to enhance treatment). My research had led me to conclude that beta glucans (which are in many if the "immune enhancing" supplements, especially mushrooms) were not good for CLL because they work by increasing b cells -- or something like that (been awhile --AussieNeil, you might remember). Then I came across this peer-reviewed article (unfortunately undated but probably recent since just showed up) in which it is stated: "Finally, lentinan is a beta-glucan polysaccharide that exerts immune-stimulating and anticarcinogenic effects; specifically in CLL patients, lentinan caused a dose-dependent increase in NK and in antibody-dependent cellular cytotoxicity activity." In other words, they view it as a positive addition. Any thought, you folks that understand how beta-glucans work?" Here is link: hematologyandoncology.net/f...

[SofiaDeo]

Can we have the link to the article?

[Vlaminck in reply to SofiaDeo]

Sorry, meant to but forgot -- it's there now.

[cllady01 Former Volunteer]

May we have the link to the article?

[Vlaminck in reply to cllady01]

Sorry, meant to but forgot -- it's there now.

[Vlaminck]

Here is link: hematologyandoncology.net/f...

[cllady01 Former Volunteer in reply to Vlaminck]

The date of publication is at bottom of the page, and is 2011.

[cllady01 Former Volunteer in reply to cllady01]

In a July, 2020 updated page with a must read Disclaimer regarding Lentinan from Sloan Kettering:

Lentinan, a polysaccharide, is derived from the mycelium of the shiitake mushroom body, and its active component is 1,3 beta glucan. In some countries, parenteral lentinan is classified as an antineoplastic polysaccharide and is available for clinical use. Only oral formulations and extracts, which are considered dietary supplements, are available for use in the United States.

Although lentinan is a biological response modifier, it does not have a direct cytotoxic effect on tumor cells (17). In various cancer models, lentinan has also been shown to enhance activity of gemcitabine (18), paclitaxel (19), docetaxel and cisplatin (20), and monoclonal antibodies (21). Addition of lentinan to standard cancer therapies, considered chemoimmunotherapy (22), resulted in improved survival in hepatocellular (1) and gastric (11) cancers, and improved quality of life in patients with esophageal carcinoma (15). Meta-analyses also suggest adjuvant lentinan may be beneficial in advanced or gastric cancers (28) (29).

Improvements in quality of life were seen with an oral formulation of lentinan in some cancer patients (10) (12) (13) (14). However, larger well-designed studies are needed to establish the role of lentinan as a useful adjunct to cancer treatment. (my emphasis)

mskcc.org/cancer-care/integ...

So, the research is continuing. It is a long slog to get to the nitty gritty of so much that might be helpful in one area but not in another. It is a tribute to the researchers that they continue along lines that have even a glimmer of hope for being something for a future aid. Unfortunately, there is no mention of blood cancer in this research.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to cllady01]

Vlaminck, further to CLLady01's reply above, note that the 2011 paper you referenced by Doctors Susan O'Brien and Neil Kay, both highly respected CLL specialists, only makes a brief mention of Lentinan from Shiitake mushrooms. I vaguely recall seeing other research on the use of beta glucans synergistically with other proven CLL treatment drugs. The lymphocyte stimulant properties in this context make perfect sense. CLL is a chronic, slow growing cancer and the older chemo drugs work by corrupting the DNA replication process. If your CLL has an intact 17p chromosome arm and a functional TP53 gene, the DNA errors in the newly divided CLL cells are detected and if uncorrectable, apoptosis is triggered and the CLL cells die. So you theoretically could get a synergistic effect by using this CLL stimulating compound with older chemo drugs. Doing so would lessen the likelihood of there being non dividing CLL cells surviving chemo, from which the CLL tumour can eventually regrow and end any remission.

Likewise Rituxan (also mentioned in the article), in part relies on antibody-dependent cellular cytotoxic to kill CLL cells, so again there could theoretically be some synergistic effect from using Lentinan with Rituxan.

You obviously wouldn't want to use the stimulating properties of Lentinan without the above drugs.

Neil

[Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil]

Thank you. I think your last comment is for me the most important personally as I am still in W&W. So in summary, anyone in my status, it is seeming, should then avoid lentinans/beta glucans.

[Kingfish6]

Thanks for the research, & look forward to other info. I have CLL & have taken beta glucan for years but stopped after reading negatives. At the same time I've seen negative comments on collagen, which I take for joint/osteoarthritis issues, along with glucosamine, hyaluronic acid. I've asked my Stanford CLL doc & he has no problem with these supplements. I'll ask about beta glucan also.

[Vlaminck in reply to Kingfish6]

My experience even with top docs is that few know much of anything about supplements -- or more likely don't care to know. I haven't had the first conversation with my top University onc on the subject (except to stop taking b12 when my b12 was off the chart high--as I brought to his attention. ) So I'd say you are lucky that you have one willing to engage on the subject. By the way, haven't read about collagen or the other substances you mention. Would be interesting in hearing what your doc says. And strangely on this beta glucans subject, the only mushroom I heard recommended was Shitake, but this apparently has beta glucans????

[LeoPa in reply to Vlaminck]

Who knows what else it contains apart from the beta glucans. From what I read on this site mushroom supplements are not recommended for CLL. Perhaps they may be helpful with solid tumors but that is not our case.

[Vlaminck in reply to LeoPa]

Yes, I agree. Mushrooms are a bit iffy because their "immune enhancing "properties can often mean beefing up B Cells. But have come across one or more articles that the only mushroom good for CLL was shitake. I'll double back at some point, and see if I happen on them. Thanks for response.

[Kingfish6 in reply to Vlaminck]

Agree. Heard of the collagen situation on CLL applicable sites & then web. I don't have a link handy.

[craterlake]

thanks ,,,,, all this info is helpful food for thought . especially with covid delta variant every where and a malfunctioning immune system .

[Luap001]

The paper is dated January of 2011.