Sinopharm or AstraZeneca?

[AshGS]

As I am on Ibrutinib for 6 months now for CLL. As I don't want to go for mRNA based vaccines. So I would like to have your views/experience on which is best: the Chinese Sinopharm or the British AstraZeneca taking into consideration that: 1) Both are based on attenuated virus and 2) Sinopharm is 80% efficiency and AstraZeneca is 70%?

[Smith123456]

in general china lies. the sinopharm vaccine in brazil is only 50 percent effective-i read that. I don't know if it's true but i wouldn't trust china. so of the 2 i'd go astrezeneca. However can you even have a choice?

[AshGS in reply to Smith123456]

I believe what as tested in Brazil was the Sinovac and not the Sinopharm.. they are different.. Honestly, I try to have a choice.. but not sure !Thanks much and pls stay safe...

Ash

[cajunjeff]

Hello Ash. I do not the answer to your question. My guess is that no one on here, with perhaps the exception of gardening girl who I think is a molecular biologist by trade, is qualified to compare these two vaccines. I assume your hesitancy with the mRNA vaccines is that the technology is new and you are worried about the possible side effects.

I have a very good friend who I assume is smarter than me, indeed, I would rank him in the top ten or twenty in the US at what he does (it’s not in the medical profession) He is treating at MD Anderson for a different sort of cancer than Cll. He has told me he will not take the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines because they are new and he worries about their safety. We have had an ongoing discussion where I have been encouraging him to get vaccinated now with one of the 2 mRNA vaccines, no others are approved here yet.

Yesterday we were exchanging texts on matters totally unrelated to covid and vaccines and I asked him to humor me with an exercise in logic I had formulated on my own and to answer each question honestly with the very first answer that comes to him. I did not want him to take time to think about where my questions were headed. You can take the test too, just substitute wherever you are treating for MD Anderson. I knew going into the test my friend thinks the doctors at MD Anderson are the best in the world for his cancer. Okay, here is what I asked him in sequence, keeping in mind our preceding discussion had nothing to do with vaccinations:

1) Do you think your doctor at MD Anderson is among the best in the world?

2) Do you think your doctor knows more than you about what medical treatments are best for you?

He dutifully answered quickly: Yes and yes. I assume you think as highly of your doctor as he does.

Here I are the third and fourth questions I posed to him:

3) Do you think it smart call your doctor at MD Anderson and ask him which vaccine to take?

4) Do you think it wise to take his advice in that regard?

I already know what his doctor at MD Anderson would tell him Doctors there believe mRNA vaccines are safe and that the risk of going unvaccinated, catching covid and dying from it are many thousands of times greater than dying from a vaccine side effect. They believe we should take the first vaccine available to us. They believe the more immunogenic a vaccine is, the more chance we get an immune response from it. I know the doctors at MD Anderson are encouraging their cancer patients to take the first vaccine available to us.

I bet your doctor would give you the same advice. And I suspect that you, like my friend and me, lack any real ability to compare the safety profile of mRNA vaccines and the viral vector vaccines you discuss. The Astra Zeneca vaccine will inject us with a chimpanzee virus as a delivery mechanism. Does that sound any safer than an mRNA vaccine using an inert piece of rna to inject?

Of course we all chart our own course and decide what vaccines we want. It’s not for me to talk my friend, or you,into one vaccine over the other. But knowing how smart and logical he is, I wanted to point out to him the illogic of elevating his opinion on the safety of vaccines over that of his doctor, who I do think knows way better than he does.

If you have mRNA vaccines available to you now, every day you do not take it you increase your risk of getting one of these more deadly and contagious strains. Covid has killed about 500k in the US. How many deaths have been proven related to mRNA vaccines among the millions administered? I am not sure any have been confirmed.

And in delaying your vaccine, your delay is getting you a vaccine much less likely to work for you. The mRNA vaccines are among the most immunogenic ever made.

I would have bothered my friend with my exercise in logic but for the fact I care for him and want him to be well. And I certainly am not asking him (or you) to follow my advice on which vaccine is best for people.

But I am suggesting you both at least consider elevating the opinion of your doctors over your own on vaccine safety. There might be a late side effect of mRNA vaccines, that is an unknown risk.

The risk of delaying taking an mRNA vaccine is much more known. You risk catching covid every day you delay. And your delay is getting you a vaccine with less efficacy than the mRNA vaccines.

Sorry for the rambling answer. Again, it’s not for me to convince you mRNA vaccines are safe. I understand the fear and concern with new technology vaccines.

All that rambling said, I hope whatever choice you make works for you. It’s a lot of new ground being covered and no one knows for sure. There is risk in deciding either way. I do not know that my friend has given much thought to the risk in thinking he knows better than his doctor.

[Smith123456 in reply to cajunjeff]

this was announced in Ireland facebook.com/photo?fbid=419...

[AshGS in reply to cajunjeff]

Many thanks dear for your comprehensive answers and the logic you used!Unfortunately, here the doctors are also confused .. no clear direction as they say this is the first time mRNA is applied to humans, so no evidence of its effect in medium and long terms.. really quite confusing!

Thanks again and pls stay well and safe

Ash