Fasting or intermittent fasting

[Research123]

Does anyone have an opinion on this and early stage cll? I've seen the health benefits in a relative but I read that fasting initially decreases white and then increases them which in most people is good but maybe not for cll sufferers I am thinking? Looking forward to hearing from you.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

This topic comes up occasionally, with the latest post discussing it here:

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

There may be some promise when fasting is used synergistically to improve proven treatments, but fasting seems to show more promise with solid cancers. Recently I read a paper looking at how CLL cells obtain their energy, where it was disappointing to read that CLL cells are more resilient under starvation conditions than healthy B-cells .

Neil

[81ue]

I was looking at fasting about a month ago and from what I read, it can lower WBC by half. Since I have a below normal WBC due to venetoclax, I'm scared to fast

[seelel]

I've had early stage CLL for 13 years and have done numerous fasts of 7 or 10 days (water only). Also I did intermittent fasting for 2 years using the 16:8 method.

In both cases I have had no adverse effect on my CLL. The lymphocyte count does reduce with a 7 or 10 day fast, but it creeps up again over the following 12 months. My hunch is that the CLL cell numbers remain the same, but they take refuge in the nodes and the marrow so are not there to be measured in the peripheral blood.

I have concluded that fasting does not directly affect the CLL, but it has benefit in re-calibrating the body generally. Which may in turn be favourable in managing the CLL in some respects. I don't know for sure.

[Research123 in reply to seelel]

Thank you. Are you continuing with the fasts? I would imagine if you knock your count down for a year, then that is something you can carry on doing every year?

[seelel in reply to Research123]

Yes - I still do an annual fast (or 18 months). The fasts could be stabilising my lymphocytes, but I have no real evidence. I was diagnosed with an ALC of 9,000 which slowly climbed over about 7 years to 44,000. Once I started fasting they dropped back, climbed a bit, dropped back, climbed a bit, until they stabilised at approx. 30,000, which is where they have remained for a few years now.

[country76]

I do intermittent fasting almost daily. I have done this for a couple of years. I feel better, however, I don't think it affected my Cll since I went into treatment this year.

I eat nothing from 6 pm to 10 or 11 am.

I do have coffee around 8-9 am with a tad of almond milk. It isn't hard to do since most of the hours your sleeping.

Then I have homemade oatmeal with cinnamon and walnuts or soft boiled eggs for breakfast and sometimes fruit with it.

[Toothdoctor]

Just my opinion but I would be more concerned about your overall nutritional profile. I think the most important thing is to reduce as much of a toxic load on your body as you can and that means eating all organic no processed foods no added sugar’s and antibiotic free and hormone free meat and poultry. All fish should be wild caught and not any of the fishes that carry a heavy load of mercury such as tuna and swordfish etc. should be consumed or if so no more than once a month.

If you have a tendency towards a higher uric acid be sure to look at a low purine diet.

Just sharing what I do .

Wishing you all the best DLC DDS

[Splash24]

Here is what I can tell you from my perspective, I had a steady increase in both my WBC and Abs Lymph count my first 6 years after being diagnosed, since mixing in some fasting or fasting mimicking diet, (3 years ago), I have had a steady decrease, blood numbers on my last test 4 months ago were back to 2013 levels. I have used Dr. Valter Longo's FMD plan, so it appears to be beneficial to me, back when I started doing this I read studies back from the 1950's and there was many successes, but it is not hard to see why it has not gone "mainstream" it is not for the faint of heart!

[Research123 in reply to Splash24]

Thank you. Do you do a complete fast for 5 days every month or just follow his special diet or something different?

[Splash24 in reply to Research123]

Initially I did a 4 day water only fast, since that time USC has come out with a 5 day plan that is much easier, it has had huge benefits for me. My numbers are lowering after 6 years of increasing. I am not promoting it...just stating that it has helped me, in my case the results are not up for debate. I try and do 6 per year.

[Ellieoak]

Research 123,. Do not diet. CLL will not respond to it. Eat healthy exercise and enjoy life. The rest will just happen. Anna

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Ellieoak]

Hi Anna,

I agree with you about the unlikelihood of dieting influencing CLL and it's tied up with why CLL is considered incurable. I explained my reasoning in two posts, starting here:

What’s the likelihood of influencing CLL by dietary changes?

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Research123, Don't let this dissuade you from investigating further or even testing it for your self. Just look for long term trends (3 months minimum) and don't be surprised if you don't see any noticeable effect.

Neil

[Hoffy]

I know Someone ate a raw food vegan diet and brought her white count from 150,000 down to 50,000 over about six months and delayed treatment for about. That’s kind of like fasting!!

I have heard on periodic fasting is good for ones immune system From someone who does research on the immune system

The doctor at University of Southern California USC is also working on this research type of research. Not specifically for CLL though .

Be well,

Hoffy

[SamanthaJane123]

While I was on Watch and Wait my naturopath and nutritionist recommended that I do intermittent fasting daily (18:6) and a 24 hour fast either every week, every other week, or once a month. I generally followed this regime for several years. My hematologist was aware of my intermittent fasting, and did not object. His stance, as with any alternative treatment that I tried, was as long as it didn't cause harm. I can not say with certainty that it specifically helped me. I do know that it was part of my efforts to heal myself... whatever that may look like, and I gained benefits from it. Did it cure my CLL? Definitely not. Did it slow down the process? Perhaps. Did I feel better? Yes. Do I think it improved my health, physically and/or mentally, along with quality of life? Yes.

I recently started ibrutinib, and often have to break my intermittent fast to avoid feeling nauseas.

[Research123 in reply to SamanthaJane123]

Thanks for your message SamanthaJane. Reading the book by Walter Lungo on intermittent fasting, he seems to think that for cancer matters the benefits kick in after 2 days as that is when the body goes into Ketosis and the theory is at that point starts to starve the cancer cells, the theory being that the healthy cells just go to sleep while the cancer cells try to grow and therefore start dying off. I guess it depends how enthusiastic we are about fasting really! Anyway I am glad that it helped your health.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Research123]

According to this paper on the energy metabolism of CLL, the CLL cells are better able to withstand glucose shortage than healthy B-cells - "We found that, although CLL cells and B cells have a similar basal glycolytic activity, CLL cells had a significantly higher glycolytic capacity and glycolytic reserve, which are both indicators for the cell’s potential to switch to glycolysis as an energy source when necessary. Interestingly, we also found glycolytic capacity and reserve, but not basal glycolysis, to be novel predictors for OS in our cohort; CLL patients with higher glycolytic capacity and reserve showed worse prognosis."

haematologica.org/content/1...

Neil

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

Intermittent fasting from a cardiologist's perspective. The impact of the keto diet on cardiovascular health also gets a mention:

medpagetoday.com/cardiology...

Neil