Statin Hell or Statin Saviour? - Cholesterol Support

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Statin Hell or Statin Saviour?

KatyB
KatyB
42 Replies

Daily Mail today dailymail.com/health/articl... statins DO save lives.

So who do you believe? My latest blood test taken in January (not a good time to have it done) was as follows: serum cholesterol 9, serum triglycerides 1.1, serum HDL 1.39, serum cholesterol HDL ration 6.5, non HDL cholesterol 7.6

This is after a toe infection, a kidney infection and a virus type flu infection plus succumbing to Christmas cake and mince pies! I have in the past reduced my cholesterol by more exercise, avoiding cake/bread/sugar etc and eating more salad with olive oil but I do find it difficult to stick to these diets plus at the age of 71, exercise becomes more difficult than when I was younger. So do I give in and take statins or try the diet again?

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sandybrown

I read the article, very interesting, three specialists views!

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to sandybrown

What I found most interesting in the article, were the comments after it.

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Concerned

Sponge cake is low Gi. Limit your carbohydrate to about 120g per day, and if you choose that to include a small piece of sponge cake occasionally, then so be it.

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to Concerned

Sponge cake has a moderate, approaching 'high' glycemic load (GL) of 17. Above 20 is considered 'high', below 10 is considered 'low. It has virtually no nutritional value and should be avoided for those trying to maintain good health.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to sos007

It's about making informed decisions.

BNF recently announced that the portion size for a jacket potato is 220g. That's 46g of carbohydrate with a Gi of 85; the GL is over 39! So, even though potato is a source of vitamins, minerals and fibre, the potential detriment to health far outweighs an occasional piece of sponge cake.

That said, I didn't even eat cake at my daughters' weddings because, as you say, it has virtually no nutritional value.

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to Concerned

Well BNF is behind the research but what else is new for a government agency? Personally, I avoid desserts completely.

Best of health to you.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to sos007

Is it British Heart Foundation doing the research and trials?

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to sandybrown

I live in Canada, I'm afraid I don't know what the BHF is doing.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to sos007

This is the view of another Canadian to this article:

"I can say that here in Canada, getting old is for the birds. Your quality of life dramatically drops so many don't take life prolonging drugs simply because they don't want to live longer then they have to. Most elderly Canadians live alone and spend most of their time alone and the snow, ice and cold only makes it harder to get out. With skyrocketing mental health issues I don't see any of this improving. Once you no longer are of working age, you are forgotten."

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to sandybrown

That is a cynical view from one person.

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autumnsonnet

I agree; people eat desserts daily or regularly, at least.

If you're a diet guru, then nobody interferes with it, but be realistic.

Nobody wants to live a few years longer by living in constant misery.

Blue Zone Seniors do enjoy desserts. How about that?

Older adults function better with a higher glucose intake.

Recent studies show that people who are on low Carbs don't necessarily live longer.

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Concerned

"Older adults function better with a higher glucose intake." This has to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. A higher glucose intake will speed up ageing, harming mitochondria, forcing glucose to be the only usable substrate, increasing the risk of dementia for instance.

Much better to eat a balanced diet that conserves mitochondrial function.

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autumnsonnet

If you looked, there are some articles on this (from respectable medical science publishers) available. What I could say, is nothing is so simple. I realise people do mean well enough to post these but it's best to indicate the "caveat" that no one here is qualified nutritionists.

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Concerned

I have qualifications in nutrition, but I am not a dietitian.

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Berthold
Berthold
in reply to Concerned

sos007 said to check this link on the Mediterranean diet and potatoes are on the list

olivetomato.com/the-complet...

so even if eaten a few times a week they still are not the best choice.

He even showed a Pritikin link where 2 eggs were a choice along with white bread so I would really like to know what is the real diet.

At the base of this chart there is a lot of foods with similar fast acting carbs so eventually ones blood glucose response will deteriorate.

patient.info/health/cardiov...

In Canada what kind of doctor will get you access to nmr?

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Berthold

UK guidance is for low-Gi info for diabetes (and says this should be for the general population) nice.org.uk/guidance/ng28/c... but health professionals provide the Eatwell Guide from PHE/FSA, which doesn't comply.

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sos007
sos007Ambassador

Addressing the source of the problem is the correct solution. Pharmaceuticals are band-aid solutions that may or may not be protective. You should be aware that most statin studies were done on males so there's virtually no evidence of efficacy for females. Furthermore, at older ages, elevated cholesterol is considered protective and enhances longevity.

For exercise you can simply walk up to 60 minutes per day in intervals.

Sugar has no nutritional value, weakens your immune system, and harms your gut microbiome giving rise to hormonal imbalances that may ultimately effect your pituitary and thyroid functions. This may lead to a vicious cycle of health issues requiring a never ending parade of drugs.

One piece of coffee cake has about 300 calories. If you have a 1,500 to 2,000 calorie per day dietary intake, that means you will waste 14 to 20% of your daily caloric intake on food devoid of nutrition. Without this impediment, as it is stands, most people have difficulty eating a balanced diet comprised of a variety of nutritious food sources.

Focus on trying to get more leafy greens, nutritious fruits such as blueberries and apples, as well as nuts and seeds into your diet and forget the sugar.

Alzheimer's is now being referred to as type 3 diabetes because researchers are beginning to believe that it is a form of vascular disease. In other words, a disease related to the arteries and other blood vessels. Sugar and simple carbohydrate foods clog these arteries.

If you wish to have a long 'health-span' then you now know what to do. The statins will not protect you, in fact, statins are known to increase blood glucose levels and increase the risk of both diabetes and Alzheimer's Disease.

Read this: acatoday.org/News-Publicati...

Read this:

"However, lack of evidence substantially challenges efforts to reach optimal health decisions for the aging population. Trends in prescription drug use, even before the 2013 ACC/AHA guideline, suggest that increasing numbers of individuals older than 75 years will likely be treated with statins for primary prevention in the absence of adequate information on benefits and risks.9"

Source: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Statins are designed to lower LDL-C. This biomarker is no longer considered the best treatment target for dyslipidemia.

LDL-P (particle number) is a better indicator of CVD risk.

To get this biomarker value, get a blood test called NMR Lipoprofile (about $100 USD).

In the absence of this test, get a blood test for ApoB and ApoA. ApoB is a proxy for LDL-P, although the NMR Lipoprofile test provides far more detailed and important information.

I used to take statins following open heart surgery but they caused severe muscle pain for me and I aggressively changed my diet and lifestyle in order to avoid taking them.

Sugar is a toxin when consumed over an extended time-frame, like a lifetime. Sugar is NOT a treat, it is addictive and bad for your health - it weakens your immune system and damages your gut microbiome and affects your hormones. When you understand this, changing your diet will not be difficult.

Good luck.

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to sos007

Thank you for your helpful information, it's easy for some of us to get off track occasionally and I admire the control you have over your diet. The letter I had from my GP suggests taking medication to lower my cholesterol but that there is a small risk of increasing my chance of diabetes - speaks for itself.

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to sos007

This article shows how difficult it is in the UK to get other tests done apart from the conventional cholesterol test. independent.co.uk/life-styl...

We seem to be way behind Canada in cholesterol testing.

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to KatyB

Sorry your link did not work. However, let's be clear - Canada's public health care system is just as restrictive and myopic as yours.

You have an option to pay privately for lab tests in the UK as we do here in Canada. Where we are restricted is in the requisition form which requires us to see a doctor. We cannot simply go to a lab and request a test.

Furthermore, to order these tests, you need to know about them to begin with. The public health care systems in Canada and the UK and elsewhere are behind the latest science due to their bureaucratic processes.

Therefore everyone needs to take responsibility for their own healthcare and not rely on the public health care system.

In the meantime, even without testing - we already know that following a low-carb, Mediterranean Diet and exercising daily will provide people with optimal health, in which case the testing process becomes a confirmation system for your health status, rather than a necessity for investigation.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to sos007
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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to sandybrown

Thank you, I'm already aware of this. I have been advocating for the LDL-P test for some time on this forum - it is part of the NMR Lipoprofile test.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to sos007

Is it possible for a visitor from UK to get these these done in Canada?

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to sandybrown

I'm sure you can, it is a matter of paying. UK also has labs for this test: privatebloodtests.co.uk/

also this: smartnutrition.co.uk/health...

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to KatyB

Seems the link does not work! Basically it all boils down to cost, also if an Apo B test is done privately, it's very difficult to find a hospital that does it. Article in the Independent 6th Feb 2018

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to KatyB

I found this with an internet search: privatebloodtests.co.uk/

also this: smartnutrition.co.uk/health...

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to sos007

Thank you so much for the links. I'm sure a lot of people don't realise they can get these tests done privately at their GP in this country using smartnutrition.co.uk/health Otherwise, it would mean a lot of travelling, which is no problem if you're younger in years.

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sos007
sos007Ambassador
in reply to KatyB

My pleasure.

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Markl60

Even in the article they say heart disease is caused by damage to the lining of the arteries which LDL then gets involved in repairing, if this repair work bursts then this is one form of a heart attack. Now think about it, do you want to reduce or eliminate damage to the arteries or do you want to lower one of the components (LDL) that gets in involved in repair ?. If Statins have any small benefit it is probably not due to the lowering of LDL but due to their reduction in inflamation which can be achieved by natural means, see the Lyon Heart Study for how diet outperformed Statins

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Hidden

Thank you for this.

Unfortunately, the solutions you've hit on are relatively insignificant. The plaques result from attempted repair to endothelial damage. Excess insulin/IGF-1 provokes inflammation.

Did you see the hearing in Parliament on Tuesday regarding controlling carbohydrate intake? Tom Watson, Deputy head of the opposition, told of the need to recognise this, and how the Eatwell Guide is potentially harmful.

These arguments go around in circles, side-lined by commercial interests, but they haven't even begun to acknowledge the role of reducing fat from dairy or cutting fat from meat as the Eatwell Guide advocates, in increasing the demand for insulin and consequent stimulation of IGF-1.

Don't get me wrong. We do know that processed food is bad for us, but the waters have been muddied by condemning fat, when it is the cumulative glycaemic-load that has the biggest impact on hyperinsulinaemia and subsequently insulin-resistance.

The escalating rates of diabetes are just the tip of the iceberg since we don't even measure the excess insulin levels that underpin it; often people don't go on to develop diabetes.

Dr. Kraft did measure his patients' insulin levels, and found three-quarters had abnormal responses. He hypothesised that those people with CHD that don't have diabetes are simply undiagnosed (they have what he termed diabetes in situ; insulin-resistance).

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to Hidden

Thanks for that, didn't realise you couldn't open the link to the article.

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Thormyn

Please don’t give up. You are still reasonably young like me(70) at least I feel that way. I stopped the statins and osteoporosis medication and I push myself to regularly exercise and eat healthy which is not always happening. There are so many benefits to healthy eating and exercising and it’s up to us to kick ourselves in the butt to get up and move. It’s not easy but once you get moving as you know it gets easier. There is also a new film on Netflix called”heal” which suggests that positive thinking is a major factor in keeping healthy. All the best to you!

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to Thormyn

Thank you for your encouragement, with the better weather coming, I'm sure more exercise and eating more salads will do the trick. Just bought myself a rebound trampoline as I too have osteoporosis and I've been told they are a good way to strengthen the bones and hopefully reduce my cholesterol at the same time.

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Thormyn
Thormyn
in reply to KatyB

I also had a hip problem for the longest time. Last fall I started biking and when the weather is bad I go swimming. I started doing deep knee bends also last fall seeing the benefits on line and I started out with 20. Now I am able to do 100 in 2 x 50 sessions. I have virtually no more pain in my right hip which really acted up before when going up stairs. So, exercise is really the main factor for good health.

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Berthold

Well there is a known risk of 15% getting type 2 diabetes many lawsuits against drug companies, about >40% risk of muscle damage of some sort, and statins give a negative benefit to exercise, can cause memory problems, accelerate cancer, and give some other dreaded diseases while the number needed to treat to save one life is less with diet and exercise.

Some can tolerate fat others cannot so knowing your genotype might help. So watch this expose and you decide. Dr David Diamond 2018 low carb conference.

youtube.com/watch?reload=9&...

and

todayonline.com/world/bone-...

jeffreydachmd.com/2018/03/c...

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Berthold

Here is another perspective on statins by a doctor who used to prescribe them and used them himself and got temporary global amnesia then he investigated what was happening.

jpands.org/vol20no1/graveli...

When they can figure out who actually will benefit and how much without one having to play Russian roulette with the side effects then I would say one can decide.

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KatyB
KatyB
in reply to Berthold

Thank you for the links.

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Mascha1900
Mascha1900
in reply to Berthold

Excellent article, thanks for this! It explains very clearly why and how the body needs cholesterol, and how wrong it is to mess with this.

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Berthold

Well after an infection it is normal for cholesterol to go up as it is an immune response. First it was cholesterol then LDL now it is Calcium score next year it will be the size of your big toe nail, I jest indeed!

jeffreydachmd.com/2019/02/c...

So what is the real risk reduction 1.1% and a side effects lottery. You can always sue for type2 diabetes which has been proven and they have to declare that now but what good is that.

This is a different approach which does not work for many but worth the time understand the true facts.

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marin5

research it and then decide! I would never take them but that's me!

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