In a new study, researchers examined vitamin C blood levels and their relationship with patients’ health.1
The study involved 948 randomly selected, healthy men and women aged 53 to 84, whose blood was collected in 1999-2000.1 Subjects were closely followed for the next 16 years, and their health was tracked.
What the study showed was that people whose 16-year-old blood samples contained the highest levels of vitamin C back then had significantly lower risks of dying now.1
The differences were dramatic. Those in the highest quartile of baseline blood vitamin C levels were 25% less likely to die than those in the lowest quartile.1
Finally, when the researchers analyzed data by disease type, they found that those in the top quartile of blood vitamin C levels in 1999-2000 were at a lower risk for both heart disease and cancer deaths 16 years later.1
Many other studies also show a clear link between vitamin C and leading a long, healthy life.
While higher vitamin C levels are associated with people who practice healthier behavior patterns, this study nonetheless shows striking reductions in mortality rates in those with the highest blood levels of vitamin C...continued...
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"The result has shown that high doses of vitamin C (>50 mg/kg/day) significant reduce the mortality rate of severe sepsis patients. ... In the future, a large multicenter randomized controlled trial is necessary to determine the potential benefits of vitamin C in patients with severe sepsis and septic shock."
It is taking a long time for the medical establishment to face up to evidence that has been available for decades. Part of the problem is labelling. "High dose" is >50mg/kg/day. So for someone with 60kg this is 3 grammes. The evidence I have seen says that this is a "low" dose. Benefits begin to kick in when you have 10 grammes or more, in 4-5 divided doses. To really get the benefits of Vit C you need to do the Bowel tolerance test, then take 50-80% and persist.
There is a maximum dosage for Vitamin C up to 15 grams (15,000 mg) that you can take without a blood test.
Beyond 15,000 mg, you must get a blood test for G6PD, an enzyme that is required for the body to tolerate doses greater than 15,000 mg. If your body has that enzyme, then it can tolerate massive doses.
Those with cancer sometimes get as much as 75,000 mg by IV.
My wife has a form of cancer and she gets 60 gram per IV dose, once per week. She has the G6PD enzyme so her body can tolerate it.
The tolerance has nothing to do with bowel movements it has to do with haemolysis. Read this:
Agreed. There are many advantages of the liposomal form, including the fact that you can take effective doses faster and well above the level that causes bowel intolerance. But, Liposomal Vit C is horrendously expensive. I understood that one gramme of the liposomal form is the equivalent of four grammes of the oral form. The cheapest oral form is acidic. No problem in the normal gut, but could worsen an irritated gut (grrr). So I mix it, 2 parts Vit C + 1 Part Sodium bicarbonate. Tastes good. I now see that the reacted form, sometimes called "buffered", Sodium Ascorbate, is coming down in price. You can also put it into hot drinks.
I presume you are saying that liposomal Vit C needs a blood test for >15g (ie 60g oral). This is way above the safetynet of the bowel tolerance test, which for most people is less than 20g except when the body needs more, when fighting infection and when there is trauma. As you know, the bowel tolerance test is self administered, to keep taking Vit C, 1-2g at a time, every half hour or so, until you have stomach movements. 50-80% of that is your daily allowance divided into 4+ equal doses. The allowance significantly increases to as much as you can take when there is an infection or trauma.
My understanding is that even in those who have the problem with G6PD, negative interactions with Vitamin C are extremely rare, and only apply to the intravenous form and by extension to liposomal. See for instance Thomas E Levy, Curing the incurable: Vitamin C, infectious diseases, and toxins.
I think we're on the same page but for clarity, I will re-state below:
Liposomal vitamin C is not metabolized, therefore the bowel is not involved - and there is no bowel intolerance issue.
Liposomes go through the stomach unaltered and are fully absorbed into the body's cells through the intestines.
The 15,000 mg limit is based on the bioavailable portion which for the liposomal format is exactly = 15,000, as it is for IV vitamin C. This then becomes an issue with the G6PD enzyme. If you have the enzyme, then you can go well beyond the 15,000 mg level.
In pill or powder form, most people's stomach cannot tolerate the acidity except when using a work-through as you described with sodium bicarbonate. Most people won't take the time to do that.
Due to FDA limitations and oversight, LivOn Labs, the firm that produces the product I use, state explicitly not to use more than 2,000 mg per day. However, from my reading on vitamin C (I have read 3 books on the subject, including Thomas Levy's), this is an arbitrary upper limit without scientific confirmation. Due to the lack of profit in producing vitamins, there is little incentive for large scale research on dosing and efficacy and many of today's studies reference much older studies which were flawed or lacked today's technology.
I have personally ingested 6,000 mg of liposomal vitamin C without any negative consequences on many occasions. I haven't had a cold or the flu (I do not get the annual flu vaccine) since going to liposomal vitamin C.
We are on the same page. Thanks for the clarity for other readers. As I understand it, the acidity problem is not when it hits the stomach. The acidity problem is for the oesophagus in anyone who has an irritated oesophagus. The problem is easily solved with the Bicarbonate, or by using the 'buffered' neutral form, Sodium Ascorbate. The big limitation is behavioural -- taking enough of it, little and often requires initiative and discipline especially in those of us who have erratic days.
I like the youtube videos by Dr Suzanne Humphries. She explains well and gives references as she is going along. I am glad to hear of your success. I am persevering.
I once had a cold and took 15000 vitamin C and it went away quickly but I could not repeat the situation again. I have an ebook on vitamin C which I read of the early feats which sounded quite unbelievable and never finished reading it all. This is likely before there was documented evidence retained for future evidence as they all seemed to be antidotes. Some were documented cases but I doubt we can find those studies and reproduce the results in modern studies if anyone or company would do so for something that would have no patent is doubtful. If this was the case more antidote reports of vitamin C success would be easily found. Maybe I am just not aware of this sub culture as it is likely treated as quackery by the mainstream. There is a film I saw were a traditional therapy was shut down by the authorities as rumours of it success spread which might have worked for many people but the remaining formula is shrouded in myth. I would like to believe but we need good evidence.
On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that is not 'anecdotal' (not antitodes).
This liposomal form of vitamin C is easy to take: livonlabs.com/
I take 2,000 mg of this form which is the equivalent of 10,000 mg in pill form.
I have not gotten a virus since starting on this nearly 2 years ago even though my wife and daughter-in-law who live with me are teachers and bring home viruses all the time.
In fact, since giving both of them 2,000 mg of liposomal vitamin C, they too have avoided viruses.
There have been many books published about the merits of vitamin C. I have read 3 of them.
Among them are:
- 'Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins' by Thomas E. Levy, MD. Levy;
- 'Cancer and Vitamin C' by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron;
- 'Vitamin C and the Common Cold' by Linus Pauling
' 'Practicing Medicine Without a License?' by Owen Fonorow
'Vitamin C the Real Story' by Steve Hickey PhD
Each of these books cite dozens of medical studies on Vitamin C.
My wife has a rare and indolent form of cancer and gets IV vitamin C treatments weekly which have kept it from advancing;
Vitamin C is necessary to make collagen. Collagen repairs ligaments, tendons and cartilage. It is also necessary to repair the endothelium when an inflammatory insult occurs to it. When vitamin C is plentiful in the body, cholesterol production is reduced by up to 20% (I experienced this myself - my LDL-C dropped by nearly 20% after starting on Vitamin C).
I watched all the videos and in one case it seems to have some part in healing but all the rest is antidotes no science and we do not know how many died trying as no one will tell you..
Here is some real science I can believe about vitamin C. There is a reason for a limit of its usefulness which is explained.
I will only believe you are getting enough calories and good low carb nutrient distribution of essential minerals if I see one day of nutrient tracking of your diet on say cronometer. There is the DASH diet which gets high key minerals too, Mg & Ka but also has high glycemic foods in it which will degrade insulin response over time.
I'm not here to convince anybody of the merits of Vitamin C. Question asked, question answered. I listed 5 books, 3 of which I have read and one other as well, that provide not only references to supportive medical studies, but also explain why the NIH has provided such a superficial piece of 'facts' on Vitamin C. If you are really interested in this subject, then you must read some of those books.
If you have been paying attention or have read about the history of nutrition science and the food industry behaviour over the last 5 decades, you'll know that government agencies often base their information on outdated or flawed information, or data supplied by food or pharmaceutical industry research that has no financial interest in conducting real detailed studies on Vitamin C.
You don't have to look any further than the 'fat vs sugar' debacle that goes back to the 1960's and the Harvard Researcher who was bribed to pin the blame for heart disease on 'fat' instead of 'sugar'.
Government, in general, often acts as the Ministry of Propaganda for whatever industry or company is supporting their re-election. You can look at the current debacle in Canada and the SNC Lavalin affair that may bring down Trudeau's government.
In the meantime, if you are interested, I encourage you to read several of the books which I have read on Vitamin C, noted in my previous reply.
The other "form" of vit C is from whole fruits and vegetables. It's quite possible that this and other studies are (at least partly) reflecting the participants' greater intake of fruit and veggies than those who are eating too few. Keep in mind that Vit C doesn't come in animal-based foods or overly-processed foods.
Let's get the young people in our lives started on a whole food diet for the sake of their future health! healthline.com/nutrition/vi...
Agreed. I have been on a Mediterranean diet for nearly 35 years. I tell you, seasonal oranges which were only harvested yesterday are delicious. But an orange will only have around 100mg Vit C. Most people need 5-10g per day.
I get my Vit C flown in from Scotland its the only Vit C that is not made in China it is made in Aberdeen. I trust what I have read about VitC but have no way of knowing. I take it for CVD ,I guess time will tell.
sos007 about 18 months ago I made enquires regarding livonlabs Vit C and was told that the Vit C is sourced from China then added to the mix in USA . Now I am not saying the Vit C solely manufactured in Scotland is any better it was just my preference . It cost around 23 sterling pounds per 250ml bottle plus postage. Kind regards John.
I get the whole suspicion of China thing, but the U.S. has its own testing for quality. To date I have not had any problems and have greatly benefited from the enhanced immunity it provides. Whatever works for you.
True, but oranges aren't the best source of Vit C. I'm not saying nobody should take a Vit C supplement, just that we should try to eat more veggies and fruit - the only natural sources of C as well as other antioxidants and phytonutrients. Here are two short videos; one about Vit C supplements increasing the chance of kidney stones, the other about oxidative stress and our need for antioxidants in general.
- I'm all in favour of a diet high in fruits, vegetables and green tea. However, you cannot get the 'optimal' amount of vitamin C just from your diet.
- Consider that taking liposomal vitamin C which is directly absorbed in the intestine and not metabolized through the kidneys - should not be an issue.
I have not had time to read the evidence presented in the first video of the small increased risk of kidney stones. Hopefully I will get on to it soon. I liked the fact that actual numbers were given, instead of hiding behind a percentage or a ratio. You make a good point that Liposonal Vit C is not metabolised through the kidneys.
The orthomolecular site is a good one. I take my cue from Dr Suzanne Humphries, a kidney specialist. She has several videos. I also like the lecture by Andrew Saul.
If you read the work of Linus Pauling he pointed out the flaws in the medical studies that are widely quoted on vitamin C and kidney stone.
I have been taking high doses 2,000 to 4,000 daily of liposomal vitamin C along with 3,000 per day in pill form and have not had any kidney stone nor any compromised kidney function which I test quarterly.
My wife gets intravenous vitamin C weekly at 60,000 mg each time and she has no kidney stones or any other kidney issues.
When you look at the foods that are rich in Vit C, you find that greens and potatoes top the list. Greens of course are also sources of Vitamin K, and most people taking Warfarin are encouraged to take a steady diet of them, because it supposedly affects their dosing. I say supposedly because I dare to disagree, but that is another subject. Vitamin C survives boiling water. Since people in Britain traditionally eat a lot of potatoes, then potatoes are a major source. Oranges are surprisingly low. Thanks for drawing my attention to that.
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