Cholesterol Support
7,744 members2,198 posts

Nutrient Needs

I have read a number of post relating to cardiovascular disease and elsewhere the Utube video posted by Mathias Rath in 2015 at the Maastricht Symposium explains the cardiovascular diseases can be prevented/cured if you have enough vitamin C in your diet. Unfortunately due to mineral losses in soils and major changes in production, processing and marketing of foods the full range of vitamin and mineral support needed to address levels of loss over time can only be restored using supplements. The attached document explains why and provides a the Utube video link. What is unforgivable is such total ignorance of these facts by those qualified to treat and manage our health. Unfortunately I cannot find a way to add the document - can someone advice?

26 Replies

There is an article in the press today about how long it takes our fruit to reach us and how they treat it to keep it, all at the expense of the vitamins and nutrients. However, I would be a bit sceptical about taking too much notice of Mathias Rath - he is a salesman selling vitamins after all!

1 like

Sorry to disagree and in any event the best multivitamin mineral range available is from the Grow Co of America using a biological process developed by Szalay, a pharmacy student of Nobel Laureate Szent-Georgia who purified vitamin C which was not as well absorbed or retained in the body as the WholeFood range sold in the UK through Cytoplan.

1 like

You're saying that we are fortunate we live in these times when vitamin supplements are available. There are certainly plenty of people that are candidates for treatment, but I don't agree that vitamin C deficiency is a major cause of heart disease. There are people that suffer scurvy today, but they are a minority whereas a study showed that over 50% of the USA has insulin resistance, and the UK are usually about 5-10 years behind.

1 like

No attached document 😊 Check out Linus Pauling Institute to learn more about VitC ....


I've read it before Marz, and I don't agree, anymore than I expect people to accept everything I believe.

The Sloan-Kettering Memorial Hospital established that the greatest risk for cancer from what we eat is excess carbohydrate, with almost no risk from fat, with protein somewhere between the two.

Linus Pauling believed that vitamin C was also a cure for cancer, but vitamin C is of similar structure to carbohydrate, so it could be the potential displacement of carbohydrate that he witnessed. The success of prevention would still be dependent on the amount of carbohydrate ingested because only so much can be displaced; that would account for the failures that Pauling encountered.


I agree vitamin C has a minor role in cancer prevention. Plant sterols are the plant equivalent of our immune system and of far more importance in cancer prevention unfortunately our fruit today has little if any at all because of the lack of minerals absorbable using non-virgin soils (losses < 80% of the levels in 1992 - Earth Summit Report) or hydroponic culture. In fact, vitamin C is far more important in brain cell maturation, differentiation, survival and maintenance and renewal of neuronal synapses. To be effective in CVD it has to reached saturation point, particularly in red cells and tissue saturation points vary across a range of organs such as the eye, kidneys and intestinal villi in the with the highest levels found in the cognitive areas of the brain and protective against cognitive decline.


Plant sterols lower cholesterol, and low cholesterol is associated with increased risk of cancer.


Sorry plant sterols do not lower cholesterol as claimed by Gloria Hunniford (Flora add) and levels are not associated with cancer suggest you do a little more informed reading!


Nutrients Needs To Treat Chronic Diseases

Mineral losses in agricultural soils enable plants to make sterols and protect them against disease and us against a range of cancers. Compared to 100 years ago losses now exceed 76% in Europe and 80% in the USA (1992 Earth Summit Report).

In the 1940’s Ancel Keys claimed cholesterol as the main cause of CVD (Lipid Hypothesis) which resulted in major changes in production, processing and marketing of foods which now contain higher levels of trans fats; derived from damaged saturated and unsaturated fats which destroy the capacity of essential fatty acids to control immune system activity and of shorter chain saturates (short & medium chain fats) to reduce microbial loads on the immune system and protect gut linings.

In the mid 50’s clinicians recognised oils in fish protect us against CVD which led to identification omega 3 and 6 as ‘essential fatty acids’, during the 80’s.

In the 90’s the ratio of omega 3:6 was shown to be crucial in controlling the activity of the immune system, sensitivity to allergens and of the development of autoimmune diseases and chronic diseases such as CVD, Diabetes type 2 and Altzheimer’s. This ratio needs to be near to 1:1 but is now exceeds 1:17. Omega 3 switches off the immune system. Omega 6 switches it on. Because our diet now contains an excess of mostly denatured omega 6 the resulting increase in trans fat levels reduces the efficiency of nutrient exchange across cell membranes and need for omega 3 supplementation by most of the population reaching middle age or earlier.

In 1997 Szalay a pharmacy student of Nobel Laureate Szent-Gyorgyl (who isolated vitamin C) developed a unique range of nutrients which contain the main constituents of fresh food enabling better absorption than pure chemical isolates. These nutrients are available in the UK through Cytoplan. Products from all other manufacturers contain pure chemicals with added bioflavonoids etc. which are not biologically bound.

Cholesterol levels are controlled genetically for a reason: to provide levels needed to produce and repair cells, control levels of infection and produce hormones which regulate metabolic processes. In Hunter Gather Times levels of 13mm/l were normal. Today’s guidelines recommend 5.5mm/l. In the 1930’s a level of 4 or less was associated with suicides; not heart disease whereas higher levels are protective and increase with age, as shown in centenarians. The attached video explains how appropriate levels of vitamin C are needed to protect the vascular system.


The brain needs Insulin, cholesterol and higher concentrations of vitamin C, than the rest of the body, for maturation, differentiation and survival of neuronal tissues and Insulin resistance the single most important metabolic contributor to Altzheimer’s where diet, exercise, sleep and stress control is regarded as paramount in recovery and prevention.

A recent US study reversed AD symptoms in 98 of 100 patients tested (Bredesen Protocol) with a larger UK study now planned in partnership with Cytoplan and Lancaster University.

Notes on Vitamin C

Absorbed through villi in small intestine.

When maximum absorption limit reached then excreted in to blood stream , recirculated for 3-4 hrs. Kidney proximal tubules involved in reabsorbtion

Brain, eye, adrenal glands etc, all saturate at different levels over several days

Steady state reached in RNCs using Na dependent

Need 400-700mg per/day to achieve RBC levels of around 60umole

Brain saturates fastest and RBC measurements on blood collected after fasting


Oxidation with electron donation

Scurvey associated with poor mood, low energy due to lack of l-carnitine,

Increases catecholamine levels

High plasma levels protective in CVD, Improved Immune Function (increases functional activity of WBCs through formation of hydrogen peroxide, Cancer, Eye Health, Diabetes and Cognitive Decline

Doses of >400mg but smokers and older adults and diabetics may need more.

NB: Cooking destroys or reduces levels in food and using copper pans

Toxicity: upper limit set at 2g/day but rarely toxic but might cause diarrhoea

Liposomal No data to show better absorbed . High doses can produce hydrogen peroxide and increase oxidative burst from WBCs

Not tested in sepsis

Reduced forms of vitamin C regenerate vitamin E, thought to help reduce blood glucose levels but high plasma levels might influence ‘strip’ measurement

Hope this helps

1 like

I had not viewed the video before - thank you. Very informative. The video did of course focus on VitC deficiency with a small mention of others. Possibly low iron - folate - T3 - VitD ?

As a Hashimotos/Crohns/B12D gal I work on many areas of my health mostly with success. My cholesterol was only tested once at the time of the Thyroid diagnosis back in 2005 - raised - ignored - and lowered the Hcy instead 😊 Raised cholesterol in the past resulted in the thyroid being treated !

What a minefield it all is.


There IS evidence that liposomal vitamin C is better absorbed by the body:


The body has a defense mechanism for dealing with excess hydrogen peroxide:

How much is too much, is unknown. It is highly unlikely that the amount generated by taking high doses of vitamin C will impair your body's health as the work of Pauling, Rath, and Levy as well as others have shown that high doses of vitamin C contribute to longevity.


Attaching documents:

Right click and copy the link or at source, highlight and copy it. Once you have a copy then you can paste it!

Do you cook or eat row veg, fruits again do you cook or eat as is?


Thanks will try that😉


see latest post of document to MARZ - thanks for your help


I'm sure there is some credibility about nutrient deficiency. That said, animals do get heart disease; our pets! Fed on high-insulin stimulating biscuits and dog food, they get the same insulin-resistance (precursor for diabetes), kidney disease, heart disease, and cancer.


Yes they do but consider why. They are fed on processed products the same as us and so can develop the same problems associated with chronic diseases. Very different to the situation in the wild!

1 like

Dr Rath asserted that they don't get the same diseases because their metabolisms evolved to synthesise their own vitamin C. I'm demonstrating that's not the case.

Similar claims were made about the lipid hypothesis; that dogs don't get heart disease, that's why they can eat saturated fat with impunity... The truth is that we can eat saturated fat with relative impunity too. Our body fat is about 40% saturated fat.

The video that follows Dr Rath's on You Tube is that of Ivor Cummins to the BACPR, outlining how insulin-resistance is poorly measured, and massively increases the risk of heart disease, just as it does to our pets.


Frankly if your total body fat exceeds 30% you need to do something about it. More than 95% of fat from the diet will be removed naturally from the body if you have a normal diet and enough soluble fibre. Explorers consume an enormous amount of saturated fat in order to maintain their body temperature in extreme conditions of cold ( - 30C). If you look at their fat profiles when they return their ratios will be significantly improved with higher levels of HDL.

I have not seen the video posted by Ivor Cummins but development of insulin resistance is dependent on far down the route you are towards toward developing metabolic syndrome and the increasing levels of advanced glycation products (formed with proteins and lipids) produced when the body has an excess of glucose to get rid of. The cause of insulin resistance is not related to the cause of CVD but secondary to it.


IMHO, insulin resistance IS the primary cause of atherosclerotic CVD.

1 like

I was referring to the proportion of body-fat by any healthy person, not the proportion of my body that is fat.

Human body-fat is about 57% monounsaturated, 40% saturated, 3% PUFAs.


I have read 3 books on vitamin C.

While its true that mineral depletion in the soil affects the nutrient levels in our foods, this does not play a material role with vitamin C.

The work of Dr. Rath, Dr. Linus Pauling, Dr. Thomas Levy and others on vitamin C, suggests that the amount required for 'optimal' health, not just to avoid deficiency, is anywhere from 4,000 to 20,000 mg per day depending on each individual's needs. These values were determined based on observations of vitamin C synthesis in the animal kingdom and adapted for humans based on body weight.

You cannot consume enough vitamin C, regardless of the quality of soil conditions, to get these levels from food.

Therefore supplementation is the only possible method.

Your reference to 'the ignorance of those qualified to treat our health' is an indictment of the global medical system. The common thread in all medical systems worldwide is the pervasive reach of pharmaceutical companies in the academic training of doctors and in their continuing education after graduation.

There is no financial imperative for anyone to prove the efficacy of vitamin C or any other vitamins because the financial payoff is too small due to the fact that vitamins cannot be patented.

Therefore it falls upon every individual to educate themselves about the way the global medical system works and to place all of their recommendations into perspective.

It is also imperative that if you hope to achieve a healthy life, you must take personal responsibility to eat a well-balanced diet that is WFPB (whole foods, plant based). This does not mean strict vegetarianism, but rather more emphasis on vegetables, legumes, fruits and less on animal protein. It also means home-cooked meals rather than food-industry products that are convenient. It means avoid deep fried foods including things like chips (crisps) and similar junk food. It also means taking responsibility to exercise daily in the very least by walking 30 to 60 minutes.

It takes 5 minutes to throw together a salad - we over-emphasize as a society the time it takes to prepare and eat home-cooking. It requires a little planning to prepare our lunches and snacks for work the night before, but it will result in eating real food where you control the quantity of salt, fat and sugar.

The post-WW2 generations have been born into a society where self-indulgence and over-consumption are encouraged. Then we expect the taxpayer-funded healthcare system to treat the medical conditions that develop from our poor dietary and lifestyle choices.

When there's no perceived cost to a service (healthcare) then demand exceeds supply and you get cost escalation which motivates governments to accept financial help from pharmaceutical companies in exchange for long-term patent protection. It also results in shortages which then requires rationing of services and long waits for treatment. It also puts pressures on the system to avoid the cost of preventative medicine and focus on treatment-based medicine instead.

If you want to get high doses of vitamin C efficiently, the best way to do it is through liposomal vitamin C. Click this link here: then watch the embedded video.

You can find a distributor in your part of the world here:

Good luck to all.


"You cannot consume enough vitamin C, regardless of the quality of soil conditions, to get these levels from food", and yet I don't have any heart disease!


Where did I say that if you don't consume enough vitamin C that you will develop heart disease (although that statement may in fact be true)?

I said for 'optimum health' you need to consume between 4,000 and 20,000 mg per day according to the work of Pauling, Rath, Levy and others.

Secondly, your statement that you don't have heart disease may, or may not, be factual. For your sake, I hope you do not, but the term heart disease can be subject to interpretation by non-medical professionals.

According to: medical-dictionary.thefreed...

Heart disease is medically defined as:

"A structural or functional abnormality of the heart, or of the blood vessels supplying the heart, that impairs its normal functioning."

That means that elevated cholesterol, elevated Lp(a), elevated blood pressure, plaque accumulation, endothelial dysfunction, a resting heart rate of over 80, or blood platelets that are too sticky, and arterial inflammation, fatigue, swollen ankles, may all be early indicators of the existence of heart disease.

Often, the first sign of heart disease is a heart attack or stroke - does that mean that until such events occur those individuals did not have heart disease? Heart disease is a process that begins early in life.

"Although the clinical manifestations of cardiovascular disease (CVD), such as myocardial infarction, stroke, and peripheral vascular disease, appear from middle age, the process of atherosclerosis can begin early in childhood."


Angina generally doesn't manifest itself until your arterial blockages reach 70%. Does that mean an arterial blockage of 60% is not heart disease (abnormality of the blood vessels supplying the heart)?

Therefore, it is very likely that the majority of the population has 'some' degree of plaque accumulation. Since ANY amount of plaque accumulation causes 'some' impairment of the blood vessels that supply the heart, then technically most of us have 'some degree of heart disease', that may or may not clinically manifest itself by the time of our death.

By 'clinically manifest' we mean you don't experience the most obvious of symptoms such as angina, shortness of breath, high blood pressure or elevated cholesterol levels, that then requires medical treatment.

It is possible you may have heart disease that has not yet clinically presented itself and then die of cancer or get hit by a bus.

The age at which clinical manifestation occurs depends on one's dietary and lifestyle habits. For some it can be in their 40's for others in their 90's.

On the subject of vitamin C - the mutation of the GULO gene is what resulted in humans and a few other species from synthesizing their own vitamin C. However, that doesn't mean the 100% of the population doesn't synthesize vitamin C. Logically there are still likely a small fraction of people alive today who, through genetic mutation, may still possess the genetic capacity to produce it. These are likely the people who seem to pay no attention to diet, or a healthy lifestyle and still live to 100 or longer. Who knows, maybe you're one of these people.


I had a scan that confirmed I have zero calcification. It may be normal in today's society for heart disease to begin early in life, but it's not compulsory. Following nonsense instead of keeping insulin levels low will increase the risk.


You may also like...