Alzheimer’s Dementia CPR AED or uDNACPR

Decision decision’s re if my dad went into cardiac arrest.

My dad is end stage heart failure also as dementia Alzheimer’s.

Last few months this been uDNACPR in place am not really thrilled about.

Anyway was talking to my mum about if she had heart attack AND how i would use my latest purchase to save her.

Mainly my Heart Start AED

Clearly mum was not impressed but I said this no escape now lol 😆

Anyway dad got into conversation and said I could use it on him if ever he went into cardiac arrest SO mum asked my dad did he want bringing back AND he said dam right I do.

So that’s my dilemma as AED CPR procedures would most definitely finish him off.

Needless to say me and mum was shocked he wanted bringing back BUT given he’s dementia Alzheimer’s we don’t know how how he feels DOSE he think he’s ok 👌

And more importantly what about he’s wish

[sassy59]

It’s difficult JAS but as you say, your dad probably thinks all is well so does want to be resuscitated. It’s very sad really but I’m sure you and your family will make the right decision if and when that time arrives.

Thinking of you. Xxxxx

[Hidden in reply to sassy59]

It’s hard for sure mainly knowing what is condition is and he’s wish WE was quite shocked really

[FredaE in reply to Hidden]

Nightmare scenario but as Sassy 59 says these things often become clrearer when the time arrives.

[Hidden in reply to FredaE]

I think is just a wish really given he’s issues IF by some miracle did he would just come back to load of hurt n bed sores n pneumonia

None of which ad like him to suffer with BUT as bed bound it’s hard now trying to stop these things from happening to him.

Just don’t sit well with what he wanted AND did not want out like that on my conscious really

[MAS_Nurse]

Hi Jeff,

This is a difficult dilemma, but that is why the law is in place to protect our rights regarding our legal Mental Capacity, Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for Health and Welfare, LPA for Property and Affairs. You need to have this discussion with not only your parents but their GP and maybe a solicitor, to make sure you are not acting outside the law. If you do not have LPA for Health & Welfare for your dad (and mum) and he has not given advanced directives indicating his wishes when he was capable, you may find yourself on the wrong side of the law. You need specialist legal advice about this. Speak to a solicitor or Citizens Advice Bureau. Also are you medically trained to assess a CPR situation and to use an AED? Not all cardiac arrests can be defibrillated, as it depends on the type of cardiac arrhythmias that is happening. Again seek medical advice. Here are some links for more information:

Alzheimers Society - Types of LPA: alzheimers.org.uk/get-suppo...

Mental Capacity Act: alzheimers.org.uk/get-suppo...

Best wishes,

MAS Nurse and Moderator

[Hidden in reply to MAS_Nurse]

Hi MAS_Nurse Am as cpr trained as any member of public.

As to solicitors and dad doctors are involved also social workers

Like I said my dad as various heart conditions all final stages.

Doctors are amazed he even got out hospital after last bout of infection heart failure.

Needless to say am glad he did BUT I can see him deteriorating given now bed bound JUST moving round bed nakers him out

AS to AED am familiar with law also issues around capacity

[Hidden]

It's a difficult dilemma Jeff, which, as MAS_Nurse says, has legal implications too, as well as the more difficult moral and instinctive ones. First and foremost you must protect yourself and your mum and dad, from your accidentally acting outside the law.

Sometimes it's academic anyway, as with progressive heart failure, such as your dad has, revival won't work. Unlike a ventricular fibrillation in which blood can suddenly no longer pump and a shock is sometimes able to restart a regular rhythm again, with congestive heart failure a gradual process of 'fading away' happens and no machine in the world can help.

Most people don't want to face death and to be a bit blunt about it, are unrealistic about their chances of revival, no matter what resuscitation methods are used. And in your dad's case, he's far from well and not fully cognisant of his condition, so he probably would say, in the moment, that he'd like to be revived.

That puts a heavy burden on you because you love him, and you don't want to let him go. But there comes a sad point where no matter what you try to do, he will slip away anyway.

But I do hope he'll stay with you for just a little longer.

Best wishes to you all.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Callendersgal defo agree with everything you have said DAD as both heart failure types also blood pressure issues

I can see my self is not well as barely as strength anymore.

Also BP well I think he will just drift off as he’s having such trouble maintaining descent bp

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Best wishes JAS. I know this is such a hard time to have to go through.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It’s not easy especially as my back still nackerd BUT had over year to get use to idea about dad.

It’s just sad really as each time doctors social workers talk to him ABOUT he’s condition’s ITs like it’s first time is heard it.

My dad understands but totally forgets by time finished sentence.

Is happy enough tho GUESS that’s all that maters really

[Hidden]

Hi jeffAjaxSmith,

I do totally sympathise with you about your dads complex health issues as my mum had vascular dementia in the end but at first we thought she had Alzheimer's disease which she was showing signs of then mum was put on waiting list 5 months long to see specialist. However about 6 weeks before she passed away the doctors mentioned she might require CPR at a further date as she had high cholesterol levels and was taking Simvastatin which she took for over 15 years it was having a lot of side effects and her levels were still a bit high and that it was only going to make my mum worse in long run. Early last year I asked her doctor if her medications were interacting with each other and they said they were okay together I had that feeling that they didn't mix. Mum also had severe hypothyroidism and took levothyroxine with her statin didn't go well together. Mum took both for same length of time. Luckily she didn't need the CPR.

I also have a cousin who has heart failure and he can't walk very far unless he gets so breathless so easy that he had to swap his house for a flat which he has been there under 10 years on his own. He is now in supported council housing it's a flat where there is always someone on the premises incase he has a stroke which he has already had at least two. He doesn't keep in touch with his own sisters or anyone. He has been ill for about 15 years now and has only 61. I do understand.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Paula191 sorry to read about your own experience’s

Nothings easy with medical conditions MY dad also suffers kidney failure so can’t have metaformin apart from 1 pill and that’s not really doing job given he’s diabetes ALSO found out he as copd that he is not treated for

He use to work as asbestos mixer GUESS that’s why doctors call it copd HAVE a lot to answer for turners and doctors BUT I can wait

Yup as dad as Alzheimer’s Dementia and not well enough for test he was RIPPED of he’s asbestos compensation

Firstly by turners trust fund AS he only worked ther 2 half months AND had to of been there 3 months

He left as place was rotten .. turners new this looking at stats guess that’s three month rule come in NOT sure sharp practice is legal myself

That’s also dispite turners boss admitting only had to be there day for it to kill you.

Asbestos compensation and Alzheimer’s Dementia well all suffers in age bracket well the dont mater.

According to Human Rights council the do .... so that one to chance up one day.

But yer is not well man and way the roped off ignored don’t sit to well with me eather.

Even is heart pills are becoming kidney toxic

Sickens you really AS he is so nice thankful WHEN my times comes I will not be as brave or as nice CAN gaurentee that

[lell1]

If your dad decided earlier, when more aware, that he didn't want resus, then surely that could well have been his final wish? What does need to be considered is whether the decision will be based on you wishes, your mum's wishes, or your dad's informed original wishes. Being able to perform cpr/use a defibrillator is not really the issue. In your heart, what does your dad want for himself?

[Hidden in reply to lell1]

Think it’s more my dad’s condition that dictates actions ... wish is all is really as he as habit of suffering multi organ failure.

We are very lucky to have him home BUT last episode rally as took it out of him

[lell1]

What would the real dad wish ?

[Hidden in reply to lell1]

I know what he wants so dose he’s social worker.

But the not going to give him new heart OR dialysis AND that’s out of my hands ALL I can do is best can hear n now

[lell1]

I can understand you wanting to do all that you can, and being upset with professionals who can seem to be sooo frustrating. You, and your mum, are doing EVERYTHING THAT YOU CAN. I think that you are being incredibly brave having him at home, I take my hat off to anybody who can do this! Don't forget to take care of yourself too, this is important.

[Hidden in reply to lell1]

Hi lell1 it’s defo not been easy over years THIS loads times have read post on here to try understand why dad was way he was with us

Was only bit of light in see of blackness GUESS that’s why I write post AS ad like to think helps others going through same journey with loved one.

But yer my back is horrendous can only stand for min befoure have to lay down REST me back

As hard watching mum trying running round after two off us.

So I put personal injury claim in against hospital that nearly incapacitated me WHY well I can’t help help mum or dad now and my back as really bad AND am going to end up in hospital myself ALSO think Hospital might not run such a shoddy shop if I do

[lell1]

Too right. Too many let things slide and 'professionals' are overloaded and understaffed (probably cos those at the top are obscenely overpaid).

Does ur mum have carers in to help her? Attendance allowance/pip for u and dad? Marie curie nurses? Get what ur all entitled to, money and facilities such as walkers, speciality mattress etc. They cert won't tell you what ur entitled to!