Hey,
Do you ever worry if there is alcohol in the food when you have diner at friends?
Think it's stupid that I have this concern, takes away from the fun if you have to ask... i know my friend likes to make tiramisu ( definetly has alcohol in it)
Have/had f2 and well on my way to recovery.
I know it's not a meaningfull post, was wondering how you deal with it.
Typically when beer and wine is used in cooking the alcohol is burned off. With f2 I don’t think you should worry to much even if it’s not all burned away. Just don’t drink. I have cirrhosis and i typically use alcohol free mouth wash so I get what your saying.
It's sadly actually a fallacy that alcohol used in cooking is burned off, even with substantial cook times a % does remain. People being prepared for transplant are actually advised against taking any food which has had alcohol as an ingredient.
This is a feature which explains the science and the %'s remaining. (Whilst T234 is F2 and this probably doesn't really apply at their stage of liver disease it is important for others who have more advanced liver disease or who are in that pre-transplant monitored abstinence phase).
"With the prevalence of alcohol abuse and alcoholism in the United States—over seventeen million people—questions about foods containing or prepared with alcohol are a common and legitimate concern.
Some insist that alcohol in food or cooking is nothing to worry about, often citing a commonly held belief that alcohol gets cooked out of foods during the preparation process. They claim that alcohol is literally boiled off during heating or cooking and its alcoholic potency is destroyed or eliminated.
This is a myth and is not based on accurate science. Alcohol still remains in significant amounts when used in various recipes.
Evidence indicates those recovering from alcoholism could be adversely affected by a small amount of alcohol, even if consumed accidentally. Accurately assessing risk and making wise choices depends on getting the facts straight.
Alcohol Retention in Food
The U.S. Department of Agriculture published a table of nutrient retention factors. The table includes information about nutrients, including alcohol, contained in 290 different foods under a variety of cooking and preparation methods.
An analytical study was performed to determine the extent of alcohol that was lost during food preparation under a variety of methods and lengths of time.
The results are quite detailed, but below are some findings from the study. Keep in mind that there are variables involved, and this is a general guideline.
85% of the alcohol remained when added to boiling liquid and then removed from heat shortly after.
75% alcohol retention was noted when using the flaming method of cooking.
70% of the alcohol persisted when using no heat and storing the food overnight.
45% of the alcohol remained when baked for 25 minutes with the mixture not being stirred.
When stirring the mixture, alcohol retention varied based on the amount of time the food was baked or simmered:
40% alcohol retention after 15 minutes
35% alcohol retention after 30 minutes
25% alcohol retention after 1 hour
20% alcohol retention after 1.5 hours
10% alcohol retention after 2 hours
5% alcohol retention after 2.5 hours
The science is unmistakable: alcohol is still present in food after preparation and cooking. Even after lengthy periods of heating, trace amounts of alcohol remain, which could adversely affect a recovering alcoholic.
From Destiny Hope website."
Katie
Blimey...that’s a bit scary. I know I’ve become a great label checker and some ready prepared stuff does have an alcohol content, which is not always obvious from the description of the meal. I cook from scratch as it’s safer, and I’ve become the host more these days too. My friends and family are aware of my no alcohol status but sometimes forget when it comes to food. Drop of wine in that sauce is easy to do.
This is not true!If alcohol is used in any cooking process, a percentage always remains behind as does the smell in some cases, which can be a 'trigger' for an alcoholic in recovery like me.
Hi,It’s a very valid and reasonable question!
If you can, talk with your dietitian or medical support for more details on this, as some alcohol can remain in dishes.
As a rule I avoid it completely as I simply can’t stand the idea of it in anything now. Explaining in advance to friends or in restaurants isn’t taking away the fun, it’s a health requirement. Just the same as many other health/dietary requirements!
Good luck with your recovery,
Take care x
Hey there, we have a son with a nut allergy I just treat my husbands abstinence exactly the same. You do wonder what folks think, but we don't get embarrassed about checking for nuts, so why should we asking about alcohol?
Most but not all of the alcohol is burned off. You can google for more information about how much. Much depends on how much and how strong it is of course.
If you don't want it, say you can't have absolutely any alcohol not even in a dish "because I am on medication that can't be mixed with it" and no-one ever follows up (same excuse I use at parties, though I have never been a drinker of note, it just saves a hassle). Just like no-one ever asks about a nut allergy and says "have just a little".
Being this cautious is what is making you healthier so well done with that!
Please note everything I wrote could be wrong, I am not a doctor. A doctor is the best person for advice, not an internet poster like me! But with that said, I wouldn't be worried about a once a year Chicken Marsala or something like that. I presume we are not talking about weekly or monthly eating occasions. You have to live a little and having a minor amount of fun is good for mental health. At least that is what I tell myself when I have a piece of pie once in a while!
its definitely a valid point-10 years ago when I first came onto this forum-I didn't have cirrhosis but definitely steatohepatitis (alcohol related) and food prepped with alcohol made me feel ill-short term. Always recovered quickly until my liver had perked up through abstinence. Worst things are things like cakes that have had spirits drizzled through them and you're not aware. I avoid cakes now for that reason. My liver condition has worsened so I'm very careful now. I just say I'm on a diet-which I am.
The alcohol in Tiramisu, traditionally Marsala wine or Amaretto is just added to the mix so it’s just like drinking it. I used to make it a lot but always made my granddaughter a separate one with vanilla instead of alcohol. You could ask your friend to do the same. I would do that now if I was making it for myself, though it isn’t likely due to the other ingredients cream, mascarpone. Icing sugar and sponge being no nos for anyone with fatty liver. I find sticking to a strict diet is so much easier at home. I visit friends and family a lot and stay over and it’s very hard sticking to it then.
If the alcohol is cooked of( screws and casserole etc) you only get the flavour, I don’t eat trifle etc ( either take a desert or just skip it lol). Good luck
With most cooked foods the alcohol is burnt off in the cooking process leaving just the flavour. Tiramasu however is not heated so maybe wise to avoid.
I've just added a post to the thread which actually dispels this, sadly a good propotion of alcohol used in cooking does remain. Pre-transplant folks who have to prove their abstinence are told not to cook or eat food with alcohol as an ingredient as even with long cook times a % of the alcohol always remains.
Katie
If you enjoy it have it, life’s short as it is 🍷
Hello T234I'm an alcoholic in recovery.
I have no issue asking if food contains alcohol in it, because I'm 'allergic' to it.
As soon as alcohol enters my system, it starts off a craving for more that I can't control.
Zero alcohol is the way forward for me.
Just tell your friends that you have an allergy to alcohol or tell them the truth.
If they're good friends, they'll be more than happy to accommodate you.
Good Luck!
Hi T, I have 2 (now grown up) kids with diabetes, I got used to asking people how much carbohydrate was in food they’d prepared and bin dipping for containers with labels on so I’m not embarrassed about much now! Could you ring hosts a couple of days before, or text, just to remind them you can’t have alcohol? That way they have time to rethink if they were planning a boozy meal. Also means you don’t have to ask on the night so you can relax and enjoy.
Oh wow, I had no idea Katie! That is essential info to know!!! Thank you!
Hello,This is very meaningful! I have alcoholic induced cirrhosis diagnosed June 13, 2019. I have been sober since. Anyway I am very paranoid about wine etc in food! Some (many) say “oh the wine is cooked off). I say No lol ..I was out to dinner onThanksgiving and I was offered Lobster Bisque oh ! with lovely chunks of lobster meat!after the first spoonful uh oh…I could taste the sheery (strong) Needless to say the bisque was passed to my Mom. I of course forgot sherry is in the bisque. So I am extremely careful and always ask even after I read the menu. Again even if it is cooked off”. I would never enjoy the dish. So my Dear you are not alone😉
Sending Healing, Healthy ,Wishes from “The tea Totaler”
Across the Pond.
Boston Ma. USA
Susan C.
Personaly I would not worry (unless I was listed for transplant) The small amount of alcohol is more of a mental worry or mental trigger for a sick alcoholic than causing physical harm.
Probably less alcohol in the food than in a glass of orange juice (up to 0. 75%) or some burgur buns/bread (up to 1.25%)
Add to that the fact that fermentation in you digestive system produces an ounce of pure alcohol every day (same as a pint of strong lager) you realise a tiramisu once in a while is not that much of a problem.
Unless they use rum as gravy😛
Don't feel stupid, you do need to ask and ensure what you will be eating is alcohol free, (like Katie says, alcohol does not burn off during cooking.) Afterall if you were vegan, vegetarian, lactose or gluten intolerant, the host would expect to be told so do let them know that you have an "alcohol intolerance" in advance. You are being very responsible and you should be respected for that and it certainly won't make the meal any less enjoyable.
Have a great time 😀
bluemoon1
Sober 3 years tomorrow! No support :-(
No alcohol beer 0.5%
Change of life style.
