Change of life style.

[Staffi99]

Hi. It's a good thing to write down how you feel. You've had a rough time recently and your not the only person who has their past catch up with them. I have a decomsated liver disease. 20% left of my Liver. I too had to give up the main reason of my illness wich of course was alcohol. Also salt was next on the not to have list. Its not as hard as you think. I couldn't see my life without alcohol never mind salt. Don't use salt substitutes. I thought I could never eat some foods without salt but I do. Depending on what you like use lemon, cooking viniger, herbs and spices. Look out for hidden salt like Mustard, sauces, salad dressings and try to cook from scratch. I'm lucky I love garlic and chilli and white pepper. What I do is look up recepies and if I know somethings high in salt I google a low salt swap. What I have left of my Liver is now comming back with normal function. It's a small price to pay for being alive. I stick to 2mg of salt per meal. It's doable. Good luck. Sorry also look at your saturated fat. Julie

[Lola1977]

Thank you. I’m trying to figure out what is the worst thing to eat for the liver, a lesser of the three evils type thing. I’m just now learning about a carb snack at night. It’s a whole new world

[Moux1 in reply to Lola1977]

I agree it’s a tough journey . It’s my hubby who has just been diagnosed with decompensated cirrhosis and we also find the night time snacks a challenge ( I say we as I’m the one doing all of the research lol)

[Staffi99 in reply to Moux1]

A healthy snack at night is Bulger wheat you can flavour it with anything there's loads of recepies, lentils, Chickpeas. Kallo do an extra low Chicken and veg stock cubes. Obviously minus the Salt and Cream. Another good swap is if he likes Chinese swap the Soy sauce for Worcester sauce. A Chinese Chef would probably Cry but it works well for singapore noodles. Take care of him. I know how hard it is. I make two seperate meals a night but I'll take it as when his Liver starts to improve he will feel the benefits of a healthy diet. I dud.

[Moux1 in reply to Staffi99]

Thank you so much for the info , and yes I will take very good care of him, he’s my world x

[Staffi99 in reply to Lola1977]

I know. You can always ask to speak to a dieatian. I made my own way through it. If you look on this site there's info on eating and what's good and bad for the Liver. Another thing that may apply to you is Paracetamol. I can't take them as they and cold products contain Paracetamol. Basically base your food around carbs, eat as much fruit and veg as you can and try to avoid processed food. Hope you like Chicken and Fish as its best to minimise your red meat consumption. Try Pork and Turkey. It is best to speak to someone specialised in this area I'm just passing on info I know from sites such as this and the British heart foundation is a great site to look up receipies.You will get used to it honest. Take care.

[AyrshireK]

This is the list of suggested high carb night time snacks detailed in the brochure re. liver disease and diet provided by liver specialist dietician to my hubby.

Bedtime Snacks

You will need a large bedtime snack containing carbohydrate for your body to use overnight as it is a long time until breakfast!

You should aim to have 50g of carbohydrate in your bedtime snack; this equals 10 carbohydrate points.

Choose your bedtime snacks from the table below and make sure your food adds up to 9 or 10 points.

FOOD CARBOHYDRATE POINT

200 ml Milk 2

300 ml Milk 3

Horlicks/hot chocolate (made with milk) 3

Fortisip / Ensure Plus 7

Fortimel 4

Fortijuice / Enlive 10

Build Up 7

1 Slice of bread / toast 3

Jam – average spread on 1 slice of bread 1

Breakfast cereal with milk 6

1 biscuit 2

1 chocolate biscuit 2

1 cracker / crisp bread 1

1 packet of crisps 3

1 packet of rice cake snack 5

1 rice cake 2

1 banana 4

1 apple / pear / orange 3

1 slice of fruit cake 7

1 slice of plain cake 6

1 slice of Swiss Roll 4

1 scone 5

1 tea cake / toasted muffin 6

1 slice malt loaf 3

1 crumpet 3

1 Scotch pancake 3

1 flapjack 4

[Rockie153 in reply to AyrshireK]

Very helpful thank you 😊

[Hidden in reply to AyrshireK]

I have heard about eating a snack at night, but I haven't read anything on why we should do it?

[AyrshireK in reply to Hidden]

This is another excerpt from the Diet and Liver Disease leaflet I got the bedtime snack info from above and will explain why you need to avoid long fasts (in advanced liver disease, to prevent malnutrition and muscle wastage).

Diet and Liver Disease

High-protein, high-energy

Introduction

When your liver is not working well or when you have liver disease, your body needs extra energy (calories) and protein. This is because sometimes your body cannot digest and absorb its food properly and therefore is unable to store and use energy.

Malnutrition (weight loss and muscle wasting) is common in people with liver disease.

Malnutrition has many causes, including decreased food intake due to liver disease symptoms such as:

- Loss of appetite

- Nausea and vomiting

- Feeling full easily which may be due to ascites (fluid collecting around your middle)

- Unnecessary or inappropriate dietary restrictions.

Good nutrition is vital to overcome symptoms of liver disease, by:

- Stopping muscle wasting and feeling weak

- Maintaining strength and mobility

- Reducing hospital admissions

- Helping wounds heal more quickly

- Speeding up recovery from operations and infections

- Helping to prevent ascites and encephalopathy (confusion caused by liver disease) getting worse.

Carbohydrate

When you eat starchy carbohydrate it is broken down into sugar (glucose). This is your body’s main energy source. Some of this energy is stored in your muscles and liver as a starch called glycogen. This is a back-up energy store to be used later when it is needed, between meals, if you have missed a meal or during a long fast such as overnight.

The liver co-ordinates the release of this energy until you next have something to eat; these energy stores are then replaced at your next meal.

If the liver is not working properly and you develop liver disease symptoms, the liver cannot replace this store.

The energy from the food you eat only lasts for 2 hours. If you have liver disease and have no energy stores, your body must find an alternative source of energy after this time. Fat tissue is hard to break down quickly, so instead your body will break down its own muscles for energy. If this continues, your muscles will get weaker and waste away.

It is important that you try and eat regular meals and snacks containing carbohydrate every 2-3 hours.

To prevent muscle being used for energy and to keep you strong, it is important to ‘re-fuel’ your body regularly. Eating meals and snacks containing starchy carbohydrate every 2-3 hours provides enough energy to stop your body breaking down its own muscles.

I strongly advise anyone struggling with what to eat, when and why with liver disease to PUSH to see a liver specialist dietician to get appropriate and individualised advice based on your underlying liver disease and stage it's at. JackieAM - I see on your profile you mentioned one of your health interests as Diabetes Type II so individual help would be essential if you have Diabetes and if fatty liver is in anyway involved in your case.

At the time my hubby was put on what can only be described as weight watchers in reverse - he was malnourished (skeletal) weighing under 8 1/2 stone and was being prepared for transplant. He gained weight and regained muscle mass (same leaflet details protein intake needs) and got to 11 stone - he was doing so well that he was able to be delisted from t/p list 10 months later. Dietician is still willing to give us time in phone chats or at clinic re. any queries we have.

Katie

[Hidden in reply to AyrshireK]

Thank you,

Thank you for that.

Yes, I asked to be referred to a dietician, my gastroenterologist said it couldn't be funded.

[Staffi99 in reply to Hidden]

That's terrible. Speak to another Doctor or your Consultant. It's part of your recovery. I can see you have received lots of advice on what to eat and and loads that I didn't know so thank you to the community. I was discharged from hospital and I also have alcohol related Dementia. The memory clinic Consultant described me as emmancitaded. My Liver Consultant just told me to follow a Mediterranean diet? You must complain its your life. Take care.

[Hidden in reply to Staffi99]

Can't honestly see it making a bit of difference if they say they can't fund it they can't fund it, but thank you.

[Lola1977]

This part really throws me off because on one hand isn’t this all the food we’re not supposed to eat and then on the other hand what if you’re on the heavy side? Not complaining though 😂

[Aotea2012 in reply to Lola1977]

I’ve found as I’ve got better I have had to alter my diet. My muscles have come back and my weight has normalised so no need for so many calories as my body seems to need less. I still have a nighttime snack though, just in case. My calorie intake is about 2500 and I try to get between 70 to 90 g of protein. Limit salt and keep sugar to a sensible level. It’s just a healthy diet these days rather than crammed with carbs to keep calorie intake up.

[pushthrough in reply to Aotea2012]

Hello Aotea, I’m with you. I just try to eat as healthy as possible. My breakfast and lunch are extremely healthy. However I still have trouble eating a really healthy dinner every night.

[PoppyPiper]

Hi following on from the list of bedtime snacks that Katie posted one of the best on the list is fruit cake this is a easy one,

in a large pot

350 g mixed fruit

100g caster/granulated sugar

100g unsalted butter

125ml boiling water

with lid on bring to boil and lower to lowest heat on hob and gently simmer 20 mins

give a good stir and leave to cool

preheat oven 150c

sieve in 225g self raising flour and 1 large egg and mix well

put in loaf tin for approx 90 mins in centre of oven

tip: after 45mins turn round and 70 mins cover top with strip of grease proof paper to stop it burning

leave to cool

before my transplant and as my weight kept dropping this and large glass of full fat milk or mug of hot chocolate was my bedtime snack

also easy to make as my husband used to make it when I was too I'll.

enjoy PP

[Lola1977 in reply to PoppyPiper]

Thank you

[Paul43]

I'm not ignoring any of these suggestions nor ones from docs ect but and I'm probably wrong usually am lol but while I was drinking I had no appetite at all probably the most I really ate was a takeaway Chinese Indian ect while drunk but now I've quit drinking for nearly a year since being diagnosed I don't eat loads but definitely more than I was my point is isnt it better now that we're eating anything rather than the next to nothing that we were eating ?? As I said I might be wrong it just seems that while I was drinking alot docs ect were telling me to eat and now it's like don't eat this don't eat that lol salt and sugar has always been bad for us I'm sure I'd get poorly if all I ate was bananas 😅 I just think if you eat something and later you have pains ect avoid it next time anyway as I said probably wrong and slightly confused lol

[AyrshireK in reply to Paul43]

My hubby has never been told not to eat anything - other than watching salt intake.

When he saw liver specialist dietician he was only 8 1/2 stone, skeletal and deemed malnourished so he had to be built up prior to possibly having a transplant. Following the dietician's advice and diet plan (which was almost weight watchers in reverse) he got up to 11 stone and ended up so well he was delisted from t/p list.

It's important to eat little and often, carbs and protein become super important because if you don't fuel properly with carbs then a cirrhotic liver will rob your body of muscle mass (fat is hard for the liver to burn so it goes for muscles first). When you remember that your muscles arn't just your outer ones on arms, legs etc but that your heart and diaphragm are also muscles it is super important that you maintain your protein and carb input so as to protect all muscles.

Katie