Neuropathy with F2?

[Kettl]

Can you have symptoms of peripheral neuropathy with F2 fibrosis only?

[chrisw740]

The wording of your question makes it a little harder to answer. So yes you can have peripheral neuropathy with fibrosis but I'm going to assume you mean, can mild fibrosis in itself CAUSE peripheral neuropathy. Then very unlikely/no.

Indeed, It's normally the cause of the liver damage that is also the cause of peripheral neuropathy. Obvious example is, long-term alcohol misuse equals liver damage and long-term alcohol misuse equals peripheral neuropathy. In this instance its both the alcohol and often b12 deficiency (common in alcoholism) that has led to nerve damage.

Of course there are quite a few causes of peripheral neuropathy: diabetes, certain viruses, kidney disease, CNS trauma, autoimmune disease, vascular disease and possibly advanced decompensated cirrhosis etc BUT ... your mildly elevated fibroscan score of 7.8kpa and relatively low F2 grade fibrosis, shouldn't be giving you many if any symptoms on its own.

That said any new symptom should be discussed with your Dr and whilst not over thought - not ignored either. I would not ignore any sustained tingling or peripheral pain or numbness.

[Kettl in reply to chrisw740]

Thank you. Yes that’s what I thought. I have been sober three months. Don’t know if I didn’t notice it at night because I’d had a few wines or it came on when I stopped drinking. I have had cold fingers and toes for ages but this electric like tingling seems new. Thank you for your reply. My gastroenterologist does not think I have liver issues. I have had a colonoscopy/gastroscopy which showed nothing. My kpa was from a shear wave elastography which is different to fibroscan. I have a fibroscan in three weeks. Believe me I don’t want cirrhosis and would love to put this all down to anxiety but something is wrong and I need to find out what.

[chrisw740 in reply to Kettl]

It feels like you have a sensible take on this but understandably remain anxious. There's less information out there for SWE scans (they do have similar diagnostic performance to fibroscan whilst having slightly different sensitivities) and they do use different algorithms for scoring but the Kpa is a universal measurement so your F2 diagnosis and your consultant's assessment are all that matters. As you say, it can be tricky for ex drinkers to differentiate things that may have been around for a while but now seem very noticeable with an alcohol free body and mind. Hopefully the peripheral symptoms will pass (but worth monitoring) and be sure to rule out any dietry deficiencies. There maybe some healing going on causing these sensations.

Anyway, three months is a great achievement... It will be interesting to see what your fibroscan says, hopefully (and likely) another test with no big alarm bells.

[Kettl in reply to chrisw740]

Thanks Chris. It’s all pretty all consuming at the moment. I’m walking daily and eating well. Doing all I can diet and fitness wise.

[Hidden]

It can be caused by anxiety, I’ve had this and numbness in my hands years ago. I did have pins and needles in fingers and toes last year but after taking vit b12, it’s gone. Don’t take without doc’s advice. I’m going for colonoscopy soon, not looking forward to it. Pity you can’t get Fibroscan out of the way sooner, I bet you’ll get a brill result. Xxxxxxx

[Fibro2021 in reply to Hidden]

Fibroscan can clearly show the absence of cirrhosis, but in other cases of liver disease it is not informative. In non-cirrhotic portal hypertension （NCPH）, fibroscan results may be normal or slightly increased.

[Hidden in reply to Fibro2021]

Praying my 6.2 was correct.

[Kettl in reply to Fibro2021]

Thanks you that’s reassuring

[Kettl in reply to Hidden]

I really hope so. I’m so tired of the worry.

[sophiaS1980]

Yes, you can have nerve damage with or without fibrosis, alcohol can do that to the nerves.

[Kettl in reply to sophiaS1980]

Thank you. That’s makes me feel a little better.

[Cb1963]

Firstly well done on being sober for 3 months, your symptoms are very similar to how I started my journey with neuropathy, I'm over 9 years sober, and unfortunately the nerve damage I sustained was caused my alcohol,and I'm afraid to so say I still have the legacy of pins and needles, and various burning sensation in my feet, and hands is still with me today, but I Don't think its helped matters in the past that I've had stomach issues that has accelerated these problems,i also have B12 problems, and now have to get 3 monthly injections, and the deficiency causes similar problems, so it's a double dose of problems I feel I've ended up with, I will NEVER drink alcohol again, because the symptoms are enough to remind me of the damage it's caused to my body, and I like my life as a person to try to help others who are in difficult situation, keep the great work up,eat healthy, plenty of walking, the neuropathy can be a pain,and seek advice with a pain clinic if you feel like your symptoms get to much,medication is limited, and it's quite difficult to treat, I wish you many years of sobriety, best of luck!

[Spoons20 in reply to Cb1963]

So sorry to jump on this and don’t feel obliged to reply

Ive recently been told I’m B12 and folate deficient I suffer from numb fingers and pins and needles but mainly just in the one hand, burning lower legs, really awful right sided back pain, terrible Insomnia plus other symptoms which I’m convinced is related to my liver however no diagnosis but a bad history of alcohol.. is yours liver related or something else , sorry I’m just so confused as to what is going on with my health

[Cb1963 in reply to Spoons20]

Well after stopping the drinking which is over 9 years ago, I of course expect the occasional aches and pains,but like I said the neuropathy was caused by the drinking, NOT from any liver problems I don't have any issues with my liver that I'm aware of,other stomach issues can cause B12 problems, and folic acid tablets prescribed along with injections can help support any deficiencies that your blood tests have revealed, the other pain you are feeling I can't really help you on I'm afraid, i was a chronic alcoholic, and I understand how you feel, the neuropathy is nerve damage, and some people can get better along the way,with drinking it has its major downfalls, even after stopping, but, I'd much rather be the way I am now, than the way I was all them years ago,I was told if I went back to drinking again the pains would be even worse, well,I have enough of these pains,and pins and needles on a daily basis not to drink again,medication is available, so its not all doom and gloom,and above else try not to worry yourself off the planet, or keep on looking at a Dr Google it won't help you all the time, seek help from your doctor, and I'm sure you'll be able to get the right help,it's only natural for you to start worrying, but make sure you get everything checked over,and then you know how to get yourself better, I'm living proof that it can be done, and you'll find plenty of good people on here with good information, I hope this helps 😀

[Kettl in reply to Cb1963]

Thanks you , the neuropathy I can handle. It’s the fear that it may mean that my liver is worse than I thought that scares me.

[Kettl in reply to Spoons20]

Think mine is liver/alcohol. Still having tests.

[Cb1963]

I hope all further tests come back for you in a more positive way to move forward in life, I wish you well, best wishes.

[Kettl in reply to Cb1963]

Thank you. I’m generally feeling much better. If the tingly feet and cold toes are permanents then yes they will be a good constant reminder to never drink again.